Scenes that didn't make it into the episodes

[Buffy Summers]

Often I see folks on here quote scenes that were never aired, or lines that were cut from the scripts. What is your feeling about material that was written, but either was not filmed or was cut before episodes aired? Is it additional material, or were they cut for a reason and should not be considered as part of Buffy/Angel canon? What do you think?

 

[Mr Trick]

If it didn't make it into the actual episode I don't think you can treat it as cannon. If a character references said cut scene then I guess that might be different.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I look at it more as apocrypha than simply non-canon; as it's left to the reader to decide how they want to treat the text, though to others it can be viewed as non-canon.

 

[Grace]

I look at it more as apocrypha than simply non-canon; as it's left to the reader to decide how they want to treat the text, though to others it can be viewed as non-canon.

I agree with Mr. Pole. Sometimes it gives insight into what the writers were going for and makes things clearer, so it influences how I feel about canon. Other times, the changes are big enough that I have to assume they weren't just cut for time, etc., but because they didn't fit the story or theme properly.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Where do we find all these scenes that didn't make it into the show? Were these treated as scenes that they edited out or scenes that got rewritten or dropped as part of the draft revision process? In the thread, "Is Buffy Abusing Spike?", @RachM has presented a scene where Spike outfits his crypt with paraphernalia like ropes and chains and handcuffs for a rape (including the Avalon album by Roxy Music which coincidentally is the last vinyl album I bought and that was this month!). Where was this from? (And why would someone pick that album?) This scene may never have made it to the set and certainly never went on the air.

I understand that someone may float an idea, write a prospective script and then scrap it and go on to do something different. It is not uncommon for there to be a number of revisions into the teens for a script.

 

[Grace]

Where do we find all these scenes that didn't make it into the show?

The most common source is BuffyWorld, which has shooting scripts for every episode.

It seems to vary from script to script whether they were from early in the writing process or later. There are some like Never Kill A Boy On The First Date that had major changes and some like Band Candy that are very close to what aired. I think there are other sources out there that might have different drafts of the scripts as well.

An example of what I mean when I said that sometimes the scripts influence how I feel about canon is I Only Have Eyes for You. There's a scene in the shooting script between Xander and Cordelia that really emphasizes the connection we see later between James and Buffy:

EXT. SCHOOL - DAY
Xander and Cordelia walk together on their way to class.

CORDELIA
Okay. So what's up with Buffy?

XANDER
How many times do we have to go over this? Nothing's up with Buffy. We're just good friends-

CORDELIA
No, I mean, what's up with Buffy? Like, is she okay?

XANDER
Sorry. I'm not used to you addressing subjects not directly related to... you.
(then)
She's fine. I guess. Why?

CORDELIA
She only blew off Ben Straley - the most eligible hunk in town. He's totally rad and his father owns a department store. I mean, he's the guy I'd be going out with if I wasn't so obviously brain damaged. No offense.

XANDER
Oh no. Why would I be offended?

CORDELIA
Anyway. Ben told Lynette who told Charity - that Buffy wouldn't even give him the time of day.

XANDER
Good for her. She's providing much needed life experience for the refection-deprived.

CORDELIA
The guilt thing's just getting a little old, you know. Everybody's told her what happened to Angel isn't her fault.

XANDER
Yeah. Everybody except the one guy she needs to hear it from.


The ideas expressed in this scene are still there in the episode, but this just reinforces for me what Marti Noxon was going for.

 

[GraceK]

The most common source is BuffyWorld, which has shooting scripts for every episode.

It seems to vary from script to script whether they were from early in the writing process or later. There are some like Never Kill A Boy On The First Date that had major changes and some like Band Candy that are very close to what aired. I think there are other sources out there that might have different drafts of the scripts as well.

An example of what I mean when I said that sometimes the scripts influence how I feel about canon is I Only Have Eyes for You. There's a scene in the shooting script between Xander and Cordelia that really emphasizes the connection we see later between James and Buffy:

EXT. SCHOOL - DAY
Xander and Cordelia walk together on their way to class.

CORDELIA
Okay. So what's up with Buffy?

XANDER
How many times do we have to go over this? Nothing's up with Buffy. We're just good friends-

CORDELIA
No, I mean, what's up with Buffy? Like, is she okay?

XANDER
Sorry. I'm not used to you addressing subjects not directly related to... you.
(then)
She's fine. I guess. Why?

CORDELIA
She only blew off Ben Straley - the most eligible hunk in town. He's totally rad and his father owns a department store. I mean, he's the guy I'd be going out with if I wasn't so obviously brain damaged. No offense.

XANDER
Oh no. Why would I be offended?

CORDELIA
Anyway. Ben told Lynette who told Charity - that Buffy wouldn't even give him the time of day.

XANDER
Good for her. She's providing much needed life experience for the refection-deprived.

CORDELIA
The guilt thing's just getting a little old, you know. Everybody's told her what happened to Angel isn't her fault.

XANDER
Yeah. Everybody except the one guy she needs to hear it from.


The ideas expressed in this scene are still there in the episode, but this just reinforces for me what Marti Noxon was going for.

I am forever grateful that we didn’t hear Cordelia say “Totally rad”

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I am forever grateful that we didn’t hear Cordelia say “Totally rad”

Even the Xander line "Everybody except the one guy she needs to hear it from." doesn't sound like the character either.

 

[Grace]

Even the Xander line "Everybody except the one guy she needs to hear it from." doesn't sound like the character either.

Sure, but you can understand why they might have cut it, and also why it was written in the first place. Does that make sense?

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Sure, but you can understand why they might have cut it, and also why it was written in the first place. Does that make sense?

Of course. But that's the thing, they write so much. You have four or five writers writing the script and then amalgamate it together. There's ton that gets cut.

 

[Grace]

Of course. But that's the thing, they write so much. You have four or five writers writing the script and then amalgamate it together. There's ton that gets cut.

Sure, but then that just goes back to your initial point that people can decide how they want to treat it. To me, that scene is not canon. It didn't happen. But it reinforced my reading of the rest of the episode, so I still used it in a way. If the scene had made a totally different point, even if it was still ultimately cut, it might have made me view the episode a little differently, too.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Of course. But that's the thing, they write so much. You have four or five writers writing the script and then amalgamate it together. There's ton that gets cut.

But the stuff that makes it to the shooting script has to be one of the final drafts before filming right?
 
And then you also have situations when the shooting script is so different from what is on the TV script that you can see where the writers decided to go a completely different direction in the message and writing. The Beneath You church scene is the one that comes to mind (just because we did a rewatch recently). Obviously Joss felt the need to take the scene in a very different direction, message wise, and tone wise. But its interesting to see the work product either way. Canon is what we saw on TV.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

But the stuff that makes it to the shooting script has to be one of the final drafts before filming right?

No. Take for instance a show like Deadwood, in which they had shooting scripts on many occasions yet even during filming they were rewriting and editing the script. The shooting script just says "this is the script were are going to shoot with" it doesn't mean the finished product has to be 100% matching that.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

No. Take for instance a show like Deadwood, in which they had shooting scripts on many occasions yet even during filming they were rewriting and editing the script. The shooting script just says "this is the script were are going to shoot with" it doesn't mean the finished product has to be 100% matching that.

Well I don't know about Deadwood but for the most part, with the exception of BtVS s1, the shooting scripts on Buffy are pretty close to the final product with the exception of a few additions/subtractions/edits. So it is reasonable to assume that the shooting script is at the later stages of the process (versus for example the NKABOTFD shooting script which was completely changed).

Angel similarly has a very different shooting script for Lonely Hearts. So I can tell that was a big time re-write. I wouldn't even have the shooting scripts for Angel if it wasn't for @NileQT87. Not sure where she got them. But those stop at s2 I think.

 

[GraceK]

I’m not sure if this is true, so if someone can confirm please do. But I read what someone said was the original shooting script for Empty Places and that controversial scene was so much worse than what we got. So I prefer to think what actually makes it onscreen to be canon. Things are cut or rewritten for a reason.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

So it is reasonable to assume that the shooting script is at the later stages of the process

That's what I said. But what is in the shooting script doesn't "have to be" in the final product. There are thousands of scripts that differ. I just used one example where they actually were changing the shooting script while shooting. That's why you can't take any of the scripts as 'canon' only what's on the screen.

 

[Grace]

I’m not sure if this is true, so if someone can confirm please do. But I read what someone said was the original shooting script for Empty Places and that controversial scene was so much worse than what we got. So I prefer to think what actually makes it onscreen to be canon. Things are cut or rewritten for a reason.

I haven't compared it, so I don't know. But with that scene, I'm not even sure I consider what aired to be canon! 😛

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I read what someone said was the original shooting script for Empty Places and that controversial scene was so much worse than what we got. So I prefer to think what actually makes it onscreen to be canon.

Are we talking the scene where Buffy gets evicted from her own house? How could it possibly be worse?

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Are we talking the scene where Buffy gets evicted from her own house? How could it possibly be worse?

She was the one that said she couldn't live there... I just never get how that went down as it being an eviction. "I can't live here if you don't do it my way" She is responsible for her 'eviction'

 

[GraceK]

Are we talking the scene where Buffy gets evicted from her own house? How could it possibly be worse?

From Buffyworld




BUFFY
I'm not just guessing about this.

FAITH
Listen. We're fighters. All of us.
But you gotta give me something to
fight. Something real. Not...

GILES
(quiet)
Windmills.

BUFFY
There is something there.

GILES
Maybe. But we don't know that for
sure.

BUFFY
You're waiting for some kind of
mystical sign to show up and tell us
it's the right time, that sort of
thing almost never happens, least,
not for us. We need to strike now.

GILES
And I think whatever is there, if
anything is there, will still be
there in a few days.

BUFFY
I don't know that. We don't know
that. What if we let it go and we
lose our chance? I'm not prepared to
live with that.

WOOD
And if we rush in now, before we're
ready, and more people get hurt, are
you prepared to live with that?

Buffy turns to him. Annoyed.



WOOD (cont'd)
You need to consider this.
BUFFY
I don't understand. Seven years I've
kept us safe by doing this, exactly
this, making the hard decisions.
Suddenly you're all acting like you
don't trust me.

GILES
But didn't you just tell me today
that you don't feel like you can
trust us? Maybe there's something
going on that we need to address.

Now it's Willow and Xander's turn to look hurt.



BUFFY
(to Giles)
Is this why you sent Spike away? To
ambush me?
RONA
(quiet)
Look around you, this isn't about
Spike. This is about you. You're
being reckless.

BUFFY
What?

RONA
(growing increasingly
pissed)
You are. I don't even know you, and
I can tell. You're so obsessed with
beating this guy that you're willing
to jump into any plan without
thinking.

BUFFY
That's not what I'm doing.

Kennedy JUMPS UP, moves toward Buffy.



KENNEDY
(seething/in Buffy's
face)
Well, that's how it feels to us!
People are dying! We. Are dying.
Willow jumps in between them, keeps Kennedy away from Buffy.



WILLOW
Back off, stop it.
Buffy looks relieved for the support.



WILLOW (cont'd)
(to Kennedy/re: Buffy)
It's not her fault. She's completely
strung out.
Whoops. There goes Buffy's relief.



BUFFY
I'm a who? I'm not --
WILLOW
Once you've had some rest, I think
you'll be able to --

BUFFY
I don't need rest! Willow, I'm fine.
I'm... I'm fine.

Willow backs down. Clearly not convinced.



BUFFY (cont'd)
And I don't recall any of you
complaining about the way we did
things when we were winning.
GILES
Buffy, the rules have changed. And
I'm not sure doing things the old way
will help you here.

BUFFY
The old way. You mean by leading.

WILLOW
No, that's not it at all, it's just --

BUFFY
Look, I wish this could be a
democracy. I really do. It would be
more fair, I agree. But democracies
don't win battles. It's a hard
truth, but there has to be a single
voice. You need me to issue orders
and be reckless sometimes and not
take your feelings into account.

She looks around.



BUFFY (cont'd)
You need someone to lead you.
ANYA
And it's automatically you. You
really do think you're better than we
are.

BUFFY
No, I --

ANYA
You do. Of course you do. That's
why it's your voice leading us.

BUFFY
Look --

ANYA
But we don't know, do we? We'll
never know. That you're actually
better. You came into the world with
certain advantages, sure, that's the
legacy.

BUFFY
I --

ANYA
But you didn't earn them. You didn't
work for them. You never had someone
come to you and say, Here, you
deserve these more than anyone else.
They were just... handed to you. And
that doesn't make you better than us.
It makes you luckier than us.

BUFFY
I've gotten you this far.

XANDER
(quietly)
Not without a price.

BUFFY
Xander...

XANDER
We follow you without question. Even
when you have no idea what you're
doing. Even when you get mad at us
for not working hard enough at a plan
which doesn't exist, because you
don't know what you're doing. We
keep following you, even then.
(beat)
And we keep paying the price.

BUFFY
(quiet)
Xander. I've paid the price, too,
sometimes.

That hangs in the air for a moment.



GILES
So how high does the price have to go
before you start saying your way
isn't right?
BUFFY
I still think attacking Caleb's power
base could end this --

GILES
Yes. You. Think. But when you act
alone --

BUFFY
Is that really something you want to
get into? 'Cause we can talk about
Spike. Or Ben.

GILES
If I acted rashly, it was to protect
you. Were you trying to protect
Annabelle? Or Chloe?

BUFFY
Stop it.

GILES
(more intense)
Or Molly? Or Xander? And it goes
even further back than that, doesn't
it?

BUFFY
Giles.

GILES
(seething)
You act alone, and people get hurt,
right? People like Jenny

BUFFY
Goddamn you, stop!!

Buffy SWEEPS a vase (maybe something vaguely African, from Joyce's gallery) off the end table. It SMASHES to the floor. Giles and Buffy stare at each other for a beat.



GILES
(calmly)
Do you see? You are not in the best
place you have ever been. You're too
raw. You need to take a break.
BUFFY
I am still responsible for this
group. I am still in charge here.

RONA
And why is that, exactly?

BUFFY
Because I'm the Slayer.

RONA
And isn't Faith a Slayer, too?

Everyone turns to Faith, who seems startled.



FAITH
Ka-wha? Whoa, whoa, whoa, so not
what I meant, I'm not the in-charge
chick, I just think B here needs to
chill out for a bit, take a siesta
maybe, but I'm not the one you want.
But no one's turning away.



KENNEDY
Maybe we need a vote. To see who
wants Faith to have a turn in charge.
BUFFY
Listen. You don't wanna do this.
(to Willow and Xander)
Guys, tell them. This is a mistake.

Total silence.



BUFFY (cont'd)
Guys?
Willow and Xander not answering.



BUFFY (cont'd)
I don't... this isn't happening.
WILLOW
You need to rest.

She looks at Xander. Maybe not able to finish this. He nods to her.



WILLOW (cont'd)
(barely able to say
it)
So maybe we should let someone else
take the wheel until you do.
XANDER
Maybe it's not such a terrible idea.
Letting Faith handle things. Letting
her be the Slayer.

Faith is shocked -- she didn't want this. Buffy just stares at Willow and Xander. Not sure this is real.



BUFFY
Guys. We have a chance to end this.
All of us. I can't just stay here
and watch Faith lead you off into
some disaster.
Dawn, silent till now, approaches Buffy and tenderly KISSES her on the cheek.



DAWN
Then you can't stay here.
Buffy -- and everyone -- is shocked.



DAWN (cont'd)
Look, I love you, but you can't be a
part of this. You can't be here. I
don't think... I don't think you can
face this at all. This one you have
to sit out.
Buffy is utterly devastated. The final betrayal.



DAWN (cont'd)
I'm sorry. It's my house, too.
Either you let Faith handle things...
or you have to leave.
Standoff. Buffy looks at Dawn, a little shocked. Looks to Willow and Xander and Giles... looks at the group. They're not backing down. Not one of them.

Buffy turns and walks out the front door.

I don’t know how legit this is though but wow is everyone so much worse!