Scenes that didn't make it into the episodes

[thetopher]

I think the two most notable 'scene re-writes' are the two in Season 7; Spike's speech in 'Beneath You' and the last scene in 'Empty Places'.
They were specifically rewritten not to convey information (which is wny most script changes occur, cut for time or because they are redundant) but to convey the right emotional response from the audience, to garner more sympathy for Spike in the first instance and to cast Buffy in a poorer light in the second.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think the two most notable 'scene re-writes' are the two in Season 7; Spike's speech in 'Beneath You' and the last scene in 'Empty Places'.
They were specifically rewritten not to convey information (which is wny most script changes occur, cut for time or because they are redundant) but to convey the right emotional response from the audience, to garner more sympathy for Spike in the first instance and to cast Buffy in a poorer light in the second.

What were they? How were they changed?

 

[GraceK]

What were they? How were they changed?

I don’t know about Beneath you, but if the script I posted is legit, that scene in Empty Places changed a lot. The scoobies are much more involved in the mutiny, and Giles is ALOT more involved, bringing up Jenny and going so far as to accuse her of not being protective. Dawns role also is expanded, and judging from the acting directions, the scene was played very much as a betrayal instead of legitimate concerns. That’s just my take on it.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Dawn delivers a Judas kiss, Kennedy is even more unbearable (Buffy should've punched her in the face), Giles is just awful and yet so wrong at the same time.

Buffy fought Angelus ALONE (unless you count Spike's assistance). She didn't know about WIllow and the spell so as far as she was concerned she was alone in that fight.
Buffy took on Ken and the demon slave drivers ALONE in Anne. A lot of kids are free because of Buffy.
Buffy went back to the vineyard ALONE and retrieved the scythe because she was right in her logic.

I think half the problem with the mutiny scene in Empty Places is that Buffy was RIGHT. Had she been wrong, then the scene might've been viewed as a necessary thing the scoobies had to do (though the fact that Kennedy initiates it rather than one of the scoobies still causes massive problems), but because Buffy is right, it makes the scoobies look like terrible people.

 

[crazysoulless]

She was the one that said she couldn't live there... I just never get how that went down as it being an eviction. "I can't live here if you don't do it my way" She is responsible for her 'eviction'

"I can't stay here and watch" is not a threat or ultimatum. It's like the hilltop scene when she told Angel if she couldn't stop him from committing suicide then "don't expect me to watch."

Buffy gave an objective, she said they could talk strategy together. And she explained why she thought they had to go back to the vineyard. And the first time they went there it was because the Shadow Men showed her the Turak-han army and when she told Wood it didn't feel right taking the girls into battle when some of them haven't been tested he said maybe she should test them. She had already spent months taking them on field exercises in cemeteries, crypts, and demon hangouts. And Giles chastised her for not being harder.

By Empty Places, Buffy was in her 8th year as a Slayer. Faith was a Slayer for a few months, then went evil for months, then spent 8 months in a coma, then she woke up and was evil for a few more months, and then 3 years in prison. That means Faith had less than a year of being a good Slayer to Buffy's nearly a decade of experience and leadership.

By Empty Places, Buffy helped stop 6+ apocalypses (Prophecy Girl, Becoming #2, The Zeppo, Doomed, The Gift, Grave) while Faith helped stop 1 apocalypse (The Zeppo).

And it was Buffy's house. In s2 of AtS, did the Fang Gang have the right to tell Angel he can't stay at the Hyperion?

 

[GraceK]

Dawn delivers a Judas kiss, Kennedy is even more unbearable (Buffy should've punched her in the face), Giles is just awful and yet so wrong at the same time

Seriously when I read the original I almost threw up in rage. I’m really glad they changed it because I honestly don’t think they could have come back from that so easily. WTH Giles????

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Seriously when I read the original I almost threw up in rage. I’m really glad they changed it because I honestly don’t think they could have come back from that so easily. WTH Giles????

I liked it much better. The scene would have been too long but it was a better scene.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I don't get that Buffy is right. When we see the scythe for the first time, it is encased in rock and they are using tools to get it out and they still can't. If they had taken another day, it still would have been there because it was locked in magically. I certainly don't get any idea that the disaster of the first assault on the vineyard would not have been repeated. And this is not Season 3 where Buffy was the effective general. It's Season 7 where no one does anything right. They got nowhere with the first assault but took casualties.

The longer version of the eviction scene makes more sense than what we saw on the screen.

 

[GraceK]

Seriously I wished they would shown the First walking around that scene whispering things into ears. That would have made so much more sense.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

The longer version of the eviction scene makes more sense than what we saw on the screen.

Exactly. Would have much rather seen that one. Just reading it was better.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Seriously when I read the original I almost threw up in rage. I’m really glad they changed it because I honestly don’t think they could have come back from that so easily. WTH Giles????

I'm glad they changed it too otherwise they would've killed the Scooby friendship stone dead.

Seriously I wished they would shown the First walking around that scene whispering things into ears. That would have made so much more sense.

The first would've been skipping rather than walking.

What would've been more interesting is if it had been the First that ordered the first assault on the vineyard in Buffy's guise. Basically The First's plan fell apart because it got Spike involved. Had it left Spike alone, it could've done a lot of things in the background and Buffy wouldn't know what was going on until she came up against the turok han.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I liked it better as the interpersonal relationships and how everyone dealt with one another. That was the few things of the season I liked. Had the first been behind it it would have been lessened in my opinion.

 

[crazysoulless]

I don't get that Buffy is right. When we see the scythe for the first time, it is encased in rock and they are using tools to get it out and they still can't. If they had taken another day, it still would have been there because it was locked in magically. I certainly don't get any idea that the disaster of the first assault on the vineyard would not have been repeated. And this is not Season 3 where Buffy was the effective general. It's Season 7 where no one does anything right. They got nowhere with the first assault but took casualties.

The longer version of the eviction scene makes more sense than what we saw on the screen.

Buffy never said "We have to go back and do things 100% exactly how we did them the previous time when we lost." She just said they have to go back. She didn't even say it had to be that night. And part of the reason they lost was simply seeing Buffy (strongest fighter in the group) knocked unconscious. When she woke up she went right back to fighting Caleb and was winning but Spike pulled her away because of Xander's injury. The first time Angel fought Caleb he was knocked unconscious and when he woke up he was going to go right back to fighting.

It's like s6-7 of The Walking Dead. Rick says they have to kill Negan & the Saviors so they do a little recon, go into the Compound, fight, several of their group is murdered because of it, and then they make new strategies for how to defeat Negan & the Saviors.

 

[white avenger]

I don't get that Buffy is right. When we see the scythe for the first time, it is encased in rock and they are using tools to get it out and they still can't.

But how much longer would it have taken them to chip away the stone? It's a question to which we'll obviously never have the answer, but there was still the definite possibility that they could have been successful, and, when Buffy finally managed to convince the others to return to the wine cellar, they would have found nothing but an empty chamber, or, worse, Caleb standing there grinning with the Scythe in his hands. Buffy couldn't "take a break in the middle of the apocalypse," as Spike put it, because Caleb was still out there, working hard to win the day.

About the question of the validity of original scripts and deleted scenes versus the actual episode as presented, Joss, himself, seems to have settled the matter, at least as far as his own work is concerned. If it wasn't in the actual episode, it never really happened. That's why we have no "Director's Cut" or "Extended" versions of any of his shows.

But, since we are speaking about deleted scenes, or scenes that might have made an episode better, I've always wished that at some point after Buffy returns with the Scythe, Joss would have seen fit to have a very brief moment somewhere that Giles says to Buffy, "We were wrong." It wouldn't have had to be a big, blown out thing with all the Scoobies gathered around, tearful hugs, and a new rendition of "Where Do We Go From Here," it would just be his affirmation that Buffy was, indeed the right leader for the job.

 

[Antho]

All of this just remind me how much I hate "Empty Place"... Damn you season 7, damn you !!!

 

[thetopher]

Buffy was only right because the show said so. Her reasoning about the vineyard- which we all heard- was based on the theory that Caleb would be stupid enough to lead them all to the EXACT PLACE (the place they knew NOTHING about) that he didn't want them to go in the first place. Also the fact that he let them leave that place when he clearly had the advantage. Buffy didn't know what Caleb was, what he wanted or how to defeat him, but she wanted to go back and face him again anyway.

I mean, that's all just stupid writing. From what we saw they were right not to follow Buffy...but they were wrong to let her walk away. Then again the only reason Buffy walked away is because she put her pride above the lives of those she was supposed to lead- in the middle of a friggin' apocalypse.
Every time Buffy has saved the world- EVERY single time- her friends have been invaluable- especially Xander (who was present at the S2 finale getting Giles to safety so Buffy could concentrate on Angelus)- then she should've been a bit more humble rather than getting crazy paranoid and turning on them all.


But that's why the scene was rewritten, the original version is too harsh on Buffy and too generous about her reasoning. The rewrite made her more unreasonable and unlikable, which should tell us something about what the writers were trying to communicate. It's another matter entirely if you thought they were successful or not.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Buffy seems communicationally challenged here. When the objections started, if she had said, "But we are not going to do it the same way", people would have shut up and listened. They had raided a supermarket and a hospital for supplies. How about a gun store? Did anyone ever try to decapitate a vampire or a bringer with a shotgun? How about a fuel truck? Vampires can be burned. Had the army base bugged out yet? They may have left, expecting to return and they may have left weapons. Buffy never said anything about what was going to be different this time, so naturally no one was willing to follow once more into the breach.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

The rewrite made her more unreasonable and unlikable, which should tell us something about what the writers were trying to communicate.

That even heroes are flawed and sometimes lose sight of the forest thru the trees?

 

[crazysoulless]

I think the worst part is their plan once Buffy left.

Let's kidnap a random Bringer (cultists so dedicated to the FE that they cut out their own eyes) and order him to give us info and then believe whatever he says.

They didn't think of a different way of fighting. They just marched in to get the weapons they were told by the Bringer were there. And no one thought it was reckless or idiotic or dangerous.

 

[white avenger]

Buffy seems communicationally challenged here. When the objections started, if she had said, "But we are not going to do it the same way", people would have shut up and listened.

Buffy's mistakes here were in 1) not working out the details of her plan with Faith and the Scoobies before she ever said anything to the Potentials. That way, she could have been assured of their support 2) picking the moment that Xander came home from the hospital to announce her intention to return to the vineyard, and, most importantly, 3) not waiting until Spike returned. Whatever your feelings for Spike might be, it must be remembered that he was one of the two most powerful fighters in Buffy's team, and his strength might have been crucial to whatever plan she had devised (but we'll never know, because she was never allowed to reveal any of its details)

They had raided a supermarket and a hospital for supplies. How about a gun store? Did anyone ever try to decapitate a vampire or a bringer with a shotgun?

Unlike grocery stores, gun shops don't just leave their merchandise out on display when the shop is closed for extended periods of time. Firearms are generally locked securely in safes or vaults. Besides which, we have never had any indication that anyone on Buffy's team, with the exception of Xander and hie pseudo military experience, has any knowledge of how to safely and effectively handle guns.

How about a fuel truck? Vampires can be burned.

This, they should definitely have considered, especially since Buffy's original reason for coming to Sunnydale was that she burned down her old school gym in order to kill a nest of vampires.

Had the army base bugged out yet? They may have left, expecting to return and they may have left weapons.

Military arsenals are even more secure than most bank vaults. Unless Giles or Wood has safe cracking experience, that would be a lost cause (the way that Xander was able to steal the rocket launcher in Season 2 was a total joke, by the way. It could NEVER have happened like that)

I think the worst part is their plan once Buffy left.

They didn't think of a different way of fighting. They just marched in to get the weapons they were told by the Bringer were there. And no one thought it was reckless or idiotic or dangerous.

The irony is, Faith's plan in raiding the supposed arsenal was almost identical to Buffy's plan to go to the vineyard: blindly go in without reconnoitering the area and just assume that you can handle whatever might pop up. No surprise that the end result was pretty much the same as well.

What we see here is a case of everyone condemning Buffy for her initial mistake, but the only one who seemed to learn anything from that mistake, at least until making the same mistake again, was Buffy. This is why I really wish we had known what her plan for the second assault on the vineyard actually would have been.