Scenes that didn't make it into the episodes

[thetopher]

That even heroes are flawed and sometimes lose sight of the forest thru the trees?

I suppose its intent vs. execution in way, there are plenty of ways to show the strain of leadership on Buffy and how her lack of communication and her habit of pushing people away to protect herself are brought to the fore by that. The scene should've been something where the viewer could've seen all sides- like when Giles and Buffy argue in 'The Gift'- both sides can be seen in that scenario, at least by any reasonable interpretation of both characters motivation.

I just don't see why this time it had to be done at the expense of the show-runners...actually I do and that's another reason I dislike the scene, the set-up is just a transparent excuse for Spike to white-knight it in the very next episode, a thing that the show had never been about before. Was Angel ever put in this position? Or Riley? Rescuing Buffy when she was at her emotional low at a critical juncture? No, it was always one of the core Scoobies, not the transitory love interest. That's back when the show knew what it was about.

 

[crazysoulless]

Actually, it has been done before.

In Superstar, Buffy was close to breaking up with Riley out of uncomfortableness about the Who Are You rape. The first real sign their relationship could survive what Faith did to them was that Scooby meeting when Buffy was explaining how she thought Jonathan used magick to alter reality and not a single one of her friends believed her. Riley took her side. You could tell it meant a lot to her.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I just don't see why this time it had to be done at the expense of the show-runners...actually I do and that's another reason I dislike the scene, the set-up is just a transparent excuse for Spike to white-knight it in the very next episode, a thing that the show had never been about before. Was Angel ever put in this position? Or Riley? Rescuing Buffy when she was at her emotional low at a critical juncture? No, it was always one of the core Scoobies, not the transitory love interest. That's back when the show knew what it was about.

Agree so much with this and its because (and I've said this before) the only way to justify bringing Buffy and Spike together in Touched is to once again strip her down to the s6 status of being alienated and cut off her friends and family. It is so clearly not about the story but setting it up so that Spike is once again the only one that is there for her. It's a slap in the face to the relationships built throughout the 7 seasons of the show.

The touched speech would have meant so much more to me if it would have come from any of the core Scoobies. I would have loved it to have come from Willow. To have her say that she has been with her through the good and the bad for both of them and she believes in her and so Buffy should believe in herself. To be empowered by a friend who has been with her for the entire journey would have been a truly touching scene.

And it's not that Buffy has never turned to her love interests for comfort throughout the seasons - but looking back to other similar situations like Helpless for example - Buffy has the support of Xander, Willow and Angel and even at the end Giles. Looking back at The Body/Forever - she does initially draw some comfort from Angel but then she and Dawn share their grief and comfort each other. Going back to WSWB she breaks down after pulverizing the Master and turns and cries on Angel but in the very next scene she is seen walking and talking with Giles about her problems. So its a team effort. The story was about a slayer who has friends and family and connections to the world and that was what made Buffy unique.

 

[crazysoulless]

I can't see Willow giving that speech since just one year earlier she tried to murder Buffy (rammed a truck into the car she was in, zapped her with lightening bolts, created demons to attack her), mocked her suicidal depression, and shamed her for sleeping with Spike even though she knew it was a result of the mental illness she had a hand in causing. And Willow let her new girlfriend Kennedy bitch at Buffy for months even though it was obvious she agreed with Buffy about needing to step up and deal with her issues in order to control her magick without going evil. They ruined that relationship thoroughly.

Oh, to have pre s7 Giles. Even s6 Giles at least seemed like he truly valued Buffy, he just wrongly pulled an Angel, leaving her for her own good because he thought she can't flourish to the amount possible with him shadowing her.

 

[thetopher]

So we're supposed to accept the guy who guilt trips Buffy into forgiving him as an acceptable substitute? It's telling that Spike is actually an incredible hindrance for most of S7 whereas Willow, Xander et all are actually trying to help. And they should've been the ones to help her here.

Plus Willow has actually been inside Buffy's head in S5, if any character truly understands Buffy and her loneliness, isolation and pressures then its Willow, not Spike.

 

[flow]

It is such a pity, that you could not have been the writer, producer, actor and director for all of seven 7. Then it would have been, what it should have been. At least, in your opinion.

flow

 

[Skanky Vamp]

It is such a pity, that you could not have been the writer, producer, actor and director for all of seven 7. Then it would have been, what it should have been. At least, in your opinion.

flow

I know I lament that all the time. Well, maybe not the actor part. Not so much the director either- or at least not all the time. The rest? Sign me up.

 

[white avenger]

I just don't see why this time it had to be done at the expense of the show-runners...actually I do and that's another reason I dislike the scene, the set-up is just a transparent excuse for Spike to white-knight it in the very next episode, a thing that the show had never been about before.

Probably, it was done that way to because Buffy was in a position that she had never had to face before, and something that the Watchers never intended the Slayers to ever do. Buffy was, for the first time, in command of a what amounted to be a small army of demon fighters. As far as we know, no Slayer in history had ever been faced with such a responsibility (which is why I have always contended that, once Buffy was no longer part of the Slayer line, she should have had a different title. Kendra, then Faith, were Slayers. Buffy was something else, even though no one ever acknowledged the fact) and, traditionally, someone in that sort of position, is to one degree or another, isolated from the group. She has to be isolated in order to make the potentially life and death decisions that come with such a job. One example of that was when she told Wood that she would let Spike kill him. As desperate as her need for warriors was, her need for discipline was more important. This is why I constantly assert that she made a huge mistake in allowing the situation to escalate to the point that she was forced to leave.

As for setting up an excuse for Spike to be the "white knight" in the next episode, I think that that was quite appropriate, since his loyalty was solely to Buffy. He didn't care in the least about the Mission. If she had said that she wanted to leave town, he would have been just as supportive of that as he was of her going back and reclaiming what he saw as rightfully hers. Like it or not, Spike is portrayed in Season 7 as the one person who Buffy can depend on for unquestioning loyalty. He is the Spock to Buffy's Captain Kirk. As someone once described the Kirk/Spock dynamic, ensouled Spike is "at her side, as though he always had been, and always would be."

 

[TriBel]

The touched speech would have meant so much more to me if it would have come from any of the core Scoobies. I would have loved it to have come from Willow. To have her say that she has been with her through the good and the bad for both of them and she believes in her and so Buffy should believe in herself. To be empowered by a friend who has been with her for the entire journey would have been a truly touching scene.

if any character truly understands Buffy and her loneliness, isolation and pressures then its Willow, not Spike.

As heart warming and effective as it is, ultimately, it's not the speech that's important. Look at it - it's framed by performance (he has the stage and the mic). There's even a tape recorder next to him and the speech itself is secondhand. What matters is that he's a vampire - he's other to phallogocentric masculinity. Buffy is also other but not in her entirety since she's human. It's the ontological subject/object structure of "same as but different" that's significant - not the language. Willow doesn't have the element of difference that Spike has. The episode is called "Touched" not "Spoken To". Faith's right "The time for speech-giving is over". The whole season has been about the limitations of language.

the guy who guilt trips Buffy into forgiving him as an acceptable substitute

When does he guilt trip her? The idea of forgiveness occurs before S7 starts - that's why S6 ends with the Prayer to St Francis.

Lord make me an instrument of your peace
Where there is hatred let me sow love
Where there is injury, pardon
Where there is doubt, faith
Where there is despair, hope
Where there is darkness, light
And where there is sadness, joy
O divine master grant that I may
not so much seek to be consoled as to console
to be understood as to understand
To be loved as to love
For it is in giving that we receive
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned
And it's in dying that we are born to eternal life
Amen

 

[Skanky Vamp]

that's why S6 ends with the Prayer to St Francis.

Wait... when did THAT happen. That sure as shootin' wasn't there when it aired!

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I don't think Willow could have given the Touched speech. Willow tends to idolise Buffy too much to speak so frankly. If I were to replace Spike with anybody, I would chose Dawn, Faith or maybe ... maybe Xander. As close as Buffy and Willow are, I don't often feel they understand each other very well.

That being said, it was a perfect speech for Spike to give, and his character needs those nicer moments to justify his presence.

 

[TriBel]

Wait... when did THAT happen. That sure as shootin' wasn't there when it aired!

From Buffyverse Wiki: "She [Sarah McLachlan] also sings "The Prayer of St. Francis" in the episode "Grave," which is featured on the album Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Radio Sunnydale - Music from the TV Series." Can't verify this. It's not an album I have in my collection.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

From Buffyverse Wiki: "She [Sarah McLachlan] also sings "The Prayer of St. Francis" in the episode "Grave," which is featured on the album Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Radio Sunnydale - Music from the TV Series."

I wonder if they didn't have the rights when it aired and added it after. It totally changed the whole feel for the ending. That's crazy!

 

[GraceK]

Wait... when did THAT happen. That sure as shootin' wasn't there when it aired!

It’s on the DVD. It plays when Xander and Willow are holding each other and Buffy is climbing out of the Grave...it’s also on the official soundtrack . It’s also on all the re runs so I think it did play when it aired
 
Edit to add:: I don’t remember if it played though on air in real time

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think it did play when it aired

I never heard it. It was very unsettling watching it just a minute ago. I am sure if it were there originally I would have noticed. I remember Willow crying being louder even too. I am almost positive that did not play.

Plus it's a very un-Buffy like thing to do..

 

[GraceK]

I never heard it. It was very unsettling watching it just a minute ago. I am sure if it were there originally I would have noticed. I remember Willow crying being louder even too. I am almost positive that did not play.

I don’t remember back that far honestly. But I can’t imagine nothing playing , so what did they use instead?

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don’t remember back that far honestly. But I can’t imagine nothing playing , so what did they use instead?

There was lite music is all. I don't remember any words. The music didn't seem as loud and in the forefront as it is now. They may have just broadcasted the instrumental and added the entire song later. I don't know. I honestly do not remember lyrics. Plus ya know, never really cared for the episode so never really watched it again that much afterwards so it's not like the song was what I was used to hearing, which is why when I watched the ending now it seemed so alien.

@Buffy Summers help? Can you remember?

 

[debbicles]

Yes Grave ended with a song about forgiveness. Unless I'm already behind in this debate and we've moved on from this question. (Sorry, I know my name is not Buffy Summers!)
Spike is consistently shown in S7 as being loyal only to Buffy. And yes, the comparison to the knight is, I think, quite apt. From being a legendary dark warrior - as cave demon calls him mockingly - he has become Buffy's liege. She is his seigneur, his lady.
Her isolation arose I think from her actually starting to feel that hardness of heart that she was so afraid of before. That coupled with unwise decisions - well, she was a de facto general but when she failed in her strategy it was simply easier to kick her out. It's not as though she actually had the power to court martial anyone!
I think Spike was incredibly useful to Buffy's work as a Slayer in that season - he comes back, offers to help in BY (before his breakdown) and then later the gang turns to him for help in trailing Willow and that flaying demon. And they are, IMO, less than kind or tolerant about him on a personal basis during that search. He beats up the frat boys in Help, despite the chip pain, then helps with working out what is going on in Him.

 

[Antho]

It is such a pity, that you could not have been the writer, producer, actor and director for all of seven 7. Then it would have been, what it should have been. At least, in your opinion.

Sometimes fanfiction are so much better than what is actually canon

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I don't think we are all really saying different things. Its just that some of us enjoyed the story of Spike being - the only one - Buffy had at the end of the show and some of us would have preferred to have see a Buffy supported by the friends that in the earlier seasons signed up to help her mission.