Scenes that didn't make it into the episodes

[debbicles]

The core gang still were there at the end. They had that lovely chat and then farewell walk-off before the last battle. And they were all reunited at the end. They were still there for Buffy when it counted. That's one of the things that made it such a great story for me. Strength came to them from their mutual support and Buffy did make that clear to them all, each and every one of them. She knew their individual strengths and assigned them specific roles that utilised those strengths.
Antho - re fanfiction being better than the show? Ha! We've all been there, I suspect!!! I think most of us are a lot kinder to the characters than the show's creator!
Anyway I've just rechecked the title of this thread and I think I've gone far off topic.

 

[Antho]

The core gang still were there at the end. They had that lovely chat and then farewell walk-off before the last battle.

Honestly this scene made me laugh a little. Two episode ago her friends put her out of her house and then Buffy came back, save them and......... and......... that's all. No discussion about what happened, no excuses, no sign of comprehension, just nothing ! they are all acting like nothing happened. Sorry, but I think that in this scene, the Scoobies and Buffy are a bit hypocrytical.
For me that's sound like " we are all together because it's the end of the show and we need to be all together" ! I don't buy that.

 

[GraceK]

Honestly this scene made me laugh a little. Two episode ago her friends put her out of her house and then Buffy came back, save them and......... and......... that's all. No discussion about what happened, no excuses, no sign of comprehension, just nothing ! they are all acting like nothing happened. Sorry, but I think that in this scene, the Scoobies and Buffy are a bit hypocrytical.
For me that's sound like " we are all together because it's the end of the show and we need to be all together" ! I don't buy that.

Yes I agree. Their little reunion throw back to the first season was completely unearned. Serious resentment and anger that was enough to earn Buffy to be overthrown is suddenly forgotten about and they are holding hands and skipping .

 

[Antho]

Absolutely ! for once, nostalgia has a bitter taste

 

[Skanky Vamp]

So how were those scenes handled in the script? Was there anything in the script that didn't make it onscreen?

 

[debbicles]

But surely what was shown in the end was that Buffy had indeed earned the right to be respected after so m any years and battles. My take on the last three episodes was that the gang throwing her out wa a huge mistake, they realised it and she came back. I don't think it wa unearned at all. It was the culmination of several years of comradeship and friendship. She made mistakes, so did they. As Spike said, "all is forgiven" and they forgave her because in the end they all love eachother. Those bonds were only temporarily broken. Sometimes the least said, the soonest mended.

 

[white avenger]

The core gang still were there at the end. They had that lovely chat and then farewell walk-off before the last battle. And they were all reunited at the end.

Two episode ago her friends put her out of her house and then Buffy came back, save them and......... and......... that's all. No discussion about what happened, no excuses, no sign of comprehension, just nothing ! they are all acting like nothing happened

Their little reunion throw back to the first season was completely unearned.

This is why I have always said that, somewhere, at some point, the gang should have apologized to Buffy for what they had done. My estimate of their collective character took a definite turn downward because we never saw that.

But surely what was shown in the end was that Buffy had indeed earned the right to be respected after so m any years and battles.

But that should have been clear to everyone before that point. In fact, it WAS clear to everyone, and summed up very well in Xander's pep talk to the girls just shortly before the battle in the vineyard. That was what made it so sad to me that the "friends" who had had so much faith in her up to that moment suddenly forgot all that. Xander had just lost an eye? Tragic, certainly, but it was the first major injury that any of the Scoobies had suffered in 7 years. That's really a fantastic record, considering the level of training that they had had (virtually nil) and the kind of opponents that they had been facing. They seemed to totally forget the fact that Buffy had died, not once, but twice, and would have gone to Hell with a Dancing Demon (who Xander summoned, by the way, not that there were ever any repercussions, despite the fact that several people died as a result) just getting them to that point.

 

[thetopher]

Probably, it was done that way to because Buffy was in a position that she had never had to face before, and something that the Watchers never intended the Slayers to ever do. Buffy was, for the first time, in command of a what amounted to be a small army of demon fighters.

I think you misunderstood, I'm not talking about the plot- Buffy has been down and out and put under pressure before- in Spiral for example- but its the divisiveness in the group and who comes to the rescue is all entirely new and feels artificial as a result.

As for setting up an excuse for Spike to be the "white knight" in the next episode, I think that that was quite appropriate, since his loyalty was solely to Buffy.

Actually in the context of the season Spike is the last one that should give Buffy this speech, since his perspective is the most skewed, the least clear, he idolizes her too much and has pretty much anyalated his sense of self-idenitty to please her. So therefore his faith in her is entirely mis-placed. All the others have known her longer and better than Spike has.

As heart warming and effective as it is, ultimately, it's not the speech that's important. Look at it - it's framed by performance (he has the stage and the mic). There's even a tape recorder next to him and the speech itself is secondhand.

So wait, its not about the speech itself but about who's giving the speech? That makes less sense, she's been talked to by a guy who has known her for less than a year.
The most moving thing about the speech is the contents and wording, the least moving is the guy saying it all.

When does he guilt trip her?

'I love you Buffy', 'I got my soul for you Buffy', 'Service the girl' (Translation- You used me for sex)- basically for the first half of the season its Spike telling Buffy to pity and forgive him because of how she treated him previously and what he did for her after.

 

[white avenger]

Actually in the context of the season Spike is the last one that should give Buffy this speech, since his perspective is the most skewed, the least clear, he idolizes her too much and has pretty much anyalated his sense of self-idenitty to please her

If Spike were encouraging Buffy to return to the fight, possibly. But that isn't what he is trying to do. Spike is doing nothing more than assuring Buffy that he, at least, still believes in her and still has her back, something that she felt that all of her other friends quite obviously did not.

All the others have known her longer and better than Spike has.

And yet, "all the others" were still back in the home that she had been forced out of. Like it or not, Spike was the only one who was there for Buffy at the one moment when she was at the lowest point of the Season. Yes, it should have been her mentor/father figure, but he was back there telling Faith what a great job she was doing. It could have been her best friend, but Willow was cuddling up with Kennedy. It could have been Xander but he was with Anya. Dawn? She was the one who insisted that Buffy leave in the first place. Faith? Maybe she would have wanted to, but she was too busy trying to keep the Potentials in line and bopping Wood. I won't even consider Andrew.

That leaves Spike. Maybe one of the others SHOULD have given the speech, though, considering why Buffy left in the first place, that might seem a bit hypocritical. Better yet, one of the others should have given the speech that Spike gave to them before having a fight with Faith and leaving. The sad fact is, they were all too busy with other stuff to bother.

 

[debbicles]

Sorry every time I try to quote I make a total haddy of it.
Thetopher: sorry must just correct you - Spike had known Buffy only a little less time than the rest of the gang. Only a year? I don't think so.
Yes, white avenger it would have been great to have seen something a bit more elaborate than Buffy simply returning, but I still think it was a glitch in the relationship and that with the pending showdown they all just wanted to restore the status quo and get on with the business.
Also re guilt tripping - Spike did his best to avoid talking to Buffy in BY about any of what he had done to regain his soul. Until he had his breakdown. If he had repeatedly mentioned to her either then or later that he had gone on his soul quest at all, never mind for her sake, then I probably would reassess that as guilt-tripping, but to my mind it was no more guilt-tripping than when Angel returns in S3. He tries to avoid making a big deal out of what happened, going to Hell, as well. Buffy is essentially a compassionate soul and I was glad she took pity on them both.
Anyway, I'm still off topic.

 

[white avenger]

Yes, white avenger it would have been great to have seen something a bit more elaborate than Buffy simply returning, but I still think it was a glitch in the relationship and that with the pending showdown they all just wanted to restore the status quo and get on with the business.

I just can't see them simply getting back to Business As Usual after something like that, especially after what happened between Buffy and Giles after Wood's failed attempt to kill Spike. If Buffy saw Giles' part in that as betrayal, what Willow, Xander, and Dawn did had to be far worse, and they all just shrug it off. Hopefully, after the final battle, at some Starbucks along the road somewhere, they all sat down and settled the matter properly. Otherwise, I can't really imagine their friendship surviving the way that it has since then.

 

[thetopher]

If Spike were encouraging Buffy to return to the fight, possibly. But that isn't what he is trying to do. Spike is doing nothing more than assuring Buffy that he, at least, still believes in her and still has her back

I have no problem with what was said- it wasn't a bad speech- but its come from somebody who is basically a year old personality-wise, who has spent a good portion of the previous year either out of his mind, blacking out and killing people or used as a weapon by the enemy; add to that the fact that he had done everything that Buffy has demanded of him including going back to his 'Big Bad' persona.
So why does it matter if he believes in her or not, he's clearly incredibly bias and have no perspective.
It's like my Mum telling me I'm the mostest handsome-ist man in the western hemisphere- it isn't true and shouldn't inspire me with that much confidence, and yet Buffy's all 'I now feel better.' because this guy who's clearly devoted to her is telling her she's great. It's weak.

And yet, "all the others" were still back in the home that she had been forced out of.

Buffy quite obviously forced herself out. She is the one who gave the ultimatum- 'follow me or I leave' and so she had to leave. Nobody but the Potentials actually wanted her to leave- hell even Faith makes that clear by following her out onto the porch- but I guess Buffy wanted (maybe even needed) a break so that's why she left

Yes, it should have been her mentor/father figure

So basically we agree, in a season about what it means to be a slayer it should've been somebody who had been with Buffy from the very beginning, or at least somebody who had real valued insight in her as a person.

It has been said before on this board that the fact that Faith had to tell Buffy's friends to go look for her the morning after is way out of character, but its all done in service of Buffy and Spike. Again, weak.

 

[white avenger]

It's like my Mum telling me I'm the mostest handsome-ist man in the western hemisphere- it isn't true and shouldn't inspire me

You callin' yo mama a liar, boy? Shame om you. SHAME!!!

But, seriously, the world abounds with tales told by great men and women about how they were inspired to achieve greatness simply because someone loved, supported, and encouraged them. That's what Spike was doing, and at that moment, he was the ONLY one doing it.

So basically we agree, in a season about what it means to be a slayer it should've been somebody who had been with Buffy from the very beginning, or at least somebody who had real valued insight in her as a person.

We agree that someone had to be there for her at what was probably the lowest point in her life. Somebody. Probably even Andrew could have done it, though I shudder at that image. No one else was available, so Spike did what needed to be done. It didn't matter whether you think that he had only a few months experience with her, or he retained all of his experience and emotion from their first meeting in "School Hard." What matters is that he was there when Buffy needed someone. Call it poor writing, call it the luck of the draw, call it Divine Intervention, it doesn't matter. Buffy needed someone to believe in her and to hold her, and Spike was the one who was there at the time.

 

[Buffy Summers]

It is such a pity, that you could not have been the writer, producer, actor and director for all of seven 7. Then it would have been, what it should have been. At least, in your opinion.

flow

Comments like this are not appropriate or useful.


Good discussion going 9n, but I think it should be taken to a new thread so we can get back to the actual topic. 🙂

 

[spikenbuffy]

I 'm always searching to what was cut from episodes, I find that interesting to see what was originally meant to be in episodes, sometimes it was good dialogue or insight like others said. I sort of consider some cut dialogues canon in some way.

SPIKE
Right then. What's first? I run tell
the Slayer what you've gotten
yourself into?

GILES
No! Don't do that.

SPIKE
Ah... embarrassed. One of my
favorite human weaknesses, makes
the blood go to the skin. Little
Willow does it 'specially well.

GILES
I'm not embarrassed. It's just
not... not necessary. When I find
Ethan, I can clean this up without
Buffy having to know that anything
happened to me at all.

It is a cut dialogue from A New Man between Spike & Giles, it seems that Spike has seen that Giles is embarrased about Buffy, I mean I'm always thinking about The Yoko Factor. When Spike will talk to Giles about Buffy and will tear apart Buffy from her friends with his lies.

 

[spikenbuffy]

Nope, it is Spike's turn to give some faith to Buffy, this is one time that he does a great thing for Buffy, it is a great Spuffy scene not like so many that people call unhealthy. Why does people hate a great spuffy scene each time even if it's an amazing scene? . Willow had already given some faith to Buffy in S5, Xander in S4, Giles in S5. The only thing disgusting is that people says that it's for that speech that the scoobies have turned their back on Buffy which is I think some kind of truth and it's regrettable sure. Spuffy & Spike's character is a part of BTVS just like the scoobies.