"School Hard" Buffy vs Spike

[white avenger]

The first big square off between the Slayer Of Vampires and the Slayer Of Slayers, and it had to be basically called a raw because of outside interference (fire axe wielding Mother Of Slayer) I think that it's fair to say that both fighters underestimated their opponent, but am I the only one who thinks that Spike was more than holding his own against Buffy here? That, without the intervention of Joyce, Buffy just might have become Slayer Number Three on Spike's trophy wall? Granted, from then own, Buffy was better prepared to fight Spike, so the contest swung more into her favor, but there, in that school hall, Buffy came very close to getting bitten, and not in a romantic way?

So, what do you think?

 

[StarSlayer]

I definitely agree. I think if Joyce didn't step in, Buffy would have been a goner. But, I did like how Spike was afraid of Joyce at that point, lol!

Also, I think Buffy almost came close in s5 "Out of my mind."

Spoiler

When Spike thought the chip was out of his head and he lunges at Buffy intending to bite her neck. But, he still had the chip and felt the pain. If he didn't, I think she would have been a goner there too.

 

[LizzieRainbow]

In season 2 Buffy was still a teenager and not very experienced at being a slayer so it actually surprised me that Spike didn't win against her when he has been around for a while and managed to take out previous slayers...but if Spike had have killed Buffy back then the show would have had to have been renamed or cancelled so its good for all of us that she managed to stay alive through Spike lol

 

[NY State of Mind]

He definitely had her at that point but she was still learning..he could of had her a couple other times too if i'm not mistaking...just as she could of dusted him a bunch of times but never did...maybe instead of Spike being scared of Joyce he was subconsiously looking for a reason not to kill Buffy cause of his deep down attraction to her...cause he never came off as a person who feared much..so why Joyce?

 

[Professor Walsh]

Why Joyce? Perhaps because, as Kipling wrote: The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

She is wedded to convictions—in default of grosser ties;
Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies!—
He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

 

[dan k]

If Joyce didn't intervene i agree with White Avenger i think Spike would have killed Buffy. He was definately on top and in control of the right before Joyce hit him.

StarSlayer's point regarding "Out of my mind" is also a good one too. I always thought that Buffy was preparing herself to get bitten when Spike launched himself at her. She looked worried, it was written all over her face. Spike seemed more up for the fight after he thought his chip had been removed.

They were the only two fights were i think Spike came out on top. The meeting in "School Hard" reflected how inexperienced Buffy was and she was very lucky her mother came in to save her. In "Out Of My Mind" i think Buffy was more concerned about Riley and was too shocked to deal with Spike. Again if circumstances were different she could have died at that moment too.

 

[white avenger]

At that point in Season 2, Buffy definitely still had a lot to learn, and maybe the reason that she was able to stay alive long enough to profit from all of those experiences is that, unlike all of the Slayers who came before her, she had a team of friends backing her up. Whether it was Xander giving her CPR after the Master almost killed her, Joyce with her fire axe, or Faith, Angel, or Spike on numerous occasions, there has always been someone there covering Buffy's back

 

[dan k]

At that point in Season 2, Buffy definitely still had a lot to learn, and maybe the reason that she was able to stay alive long enough to profit from all of those experiences is that, unlike all of the Slayers who came before her, she had a team of friends backing her up. Whether it was Xander giving her CPR after the Master almost killed her, Joyce with her fire axe, or Faith, Angel, or Spike on numerous occasions, there has always been someone there covering Buffy's back

Riley backed Buffy up in season 5 after a vampire staked her with her own stake. She could have easily perished in that instance too.

 

[VisionGirl]

He definitely had her at that point but she was still learning..he could of had her a couple other times too if i'm not mistaking...just as she could of dusted him a bunch of times but never did...maybe instead of Spike being scared of Joyce he was subconsiously looking for a reason not to kill Buffy cause of his deep down attraction to her...cause he never came off as a person who feared much..so why Joyce?

Well, he did have major mother issues. Which is why I always liked the interaction between he and Joyce. I think a lot of that issue gets redeemed for him through Joyce.

Riley backed Buffy up in season 5 after a vampire staked her with her own stake. She could have easily perished in that instance too.

Reminds me of Helpless- she almost got killed by her own stake in that one, too.

 

[Thursday]

I believe Spike would've killed Buffy if not the for the aid she received from her friends and family; it was the whole point of the episode. Spike even says, "A Slayer with family and friends. That sure as hell wasn't in the brochure." The fact that she has allies makes her tougher to kill than any other Slayer Spike's come up against.

I think the reason Joyce was the one who came to Buffy's aid with the ax was because it fit in with the idea of the episode. The main idea of School Hard is Buffy trying to prove herself to Joyce. Buffy feels her mom doesn't understand her and is ashamed of her. Yet, Joyce coming to Buffy's aid shows that even though Joyce may not understand Buffy's situation--she doesn't know Spike is a vampire-- she still cares about her daughter, who she isn't ashamed of, and we see who Buffy gets some of her spunk from.

 

[white avenger]

I believe Spike would've killed Buffy if not the for the aid she received from her friends and family

On reconsideration, Spike might not have actually been trying all out that first time, just as he wasn't the first time that he fought Nikki Wood in the flashback in "Lies My Parents Told Me." Maybe he really just wanted to toy with her, get to know her fighting style, maybe even get a little taste of Slayer blood, and toy with her for awhile, savoring the kill when it finally did come. If Angelus was into torture and humiliation of his victims, Spike was, in his own words, "All about the kill." He wouldn't want it to end so quickly.

 

[Taake]

I wouldn't sell Buffy short, even without the help of Joyce I think she would have gotten out. Maybe not without a graze on her neck though, but she would've kicked him off somehow. Joyce's presence only made it easier.

(Spike taking off after that shows what a threat he saw Buffy as since he didn't start a new fight. Sure her mother was there but like she posed such a huge threat to Mr. Bad-ass fang without the element of surprise working in her favor?)

 

[dan k]

Personally i think if Spike ever took a bite out of Buffy then that would be that. Also if he had the chance to kill her he would have taken it, i don't see him having any similarities with Angelus in that sense.

 

[sk]

I wouldn't sell Buffy short, even without the help of Joyce I think she would have gotten out. Maybe not without a graze on her neck though, but she would've kicked him off somehow. Joyce's presence only made it easier.

Totally agree.
I'm convinced that she would've managed to get out of the situation somehow in the very last second.

Like she pretty much always do... 😉

/SK

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Buffy's (as well as Spike's) fighting abilities fluctuate according to the demands of the narrative...

 

[Marisa]

Well the only reason I would say no is because it was her show so of course she would win 😉

But on a note with that fight alone I think Spike would have won. He had her in my eyes and that is why I liked Spike he took Buffy on and was not afraid at most times. I think fighting him she learned a lot. Back to point I think Joyce stepping in helped a big deal and yes both teams very much so underestimated each other.

 

[StarSlayer]

Riley backed Buffy up in season 5 after a vampire staked her with her own stake. She could have easily perished in that instance too.

The one thing I really despised Riley for in s5 though was in "Fool For Love," when he went to kill the vampire that injured Buffy, the one that prompted her to want and find out how Spike killed the 2 slayers. I always felt Buffy should have faced him again to prove that she was stronger, but no. Riley had to intervene. Some may call it sweet and protecting, but that was Buffy's fight IMO.

---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

Spike taking off after that shows what a threat he saw Buffy as since he didn't start a new fight. Sure her mother was there but like she posed such a huge threat to Mr. Bad-ass fang without the element of surprise working in her favor?

I don't know. He looked pretty scared of her with that axe. She probably could have chopped his head off, and he seemed to recognize her strength.