School Shooting in Connecticut

[KellGreen]

I've been keeping track of coverage on this all morning, and I really can't even come close to finding the words to adequately express how disturbing this is. I just can't imagine what the families and the survivors are going through right now.

I just really don't understand how anyone can be capable of this (or the many other atrocities that happen).

 

[PassionBecoming]

This is a horrible, insane tradgedy, and I had to fight every fiber of my being not to run to pick up my kids from their hcildcare center in our town's elementary school just so I could hug them. So many prayers are being sent for all people involved, from the victims to the EMTs and law enforcement. It is just awful.

As for gun control...
-MANY places in the US are hunting areas. We have 9 guns in our home - my husband hunts, and we have two handguns for protection. We are trained on them and use them responsibly. They are either locked in a gun safe separate from the ammunition or in a place our children cannot get to them. We plan to teach our children about gun safety and teach them how to shoot them.
-Hunting is a way of life for many in America. Hunting season openers where I live are HUGE events. It's what we do. Many live off the meat they get.
-I am a big fan of the "Guns don't kill people" saying, because it's true. Making something illegal does not make them less accessible. Marajuana, meth, cocaine and other drugs are illegal, yet they are still a problem.
-Taking a weapon from someone hell-bent on doing some violence will not solve the problem. It's the same as saying rapists should be castrated; rape isn't about being able to have sex, it's about control. A rapist will find means to commit the atrocious act one way or another. The same goes for someone mentally disturbed who wants to cause harm to others.

I'm not sure statistics are out there, but I would like to see violent crime statistics in general for other countries vs. US - just because a gun isn't being used doesn't mean they aren't happening. (Not to mention what the population of those countries are vs. the US. More people = more incidences of anything, generally speaking.)

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Lets all remember (me included, I was one of the first to steer it off focus) this thread is about the horribly tragic developments of today, so lets discuss that issue, I think gun control is tied to that so the issue will come up, but lets not over run the thread with that issue.

Also keep in mind, issues like this can strike very close to home with people so it will be a hot topic, you may not be aware how your comments might effect someone else, so just keep that in mind when posting.


I just read on twitter that the shooters brother was found dead and his girlfriend is missing.

There is something really horrible about this particular shooting, obviously their all horrible, but the others I've heard at were teens who had something against the school/students. The Shooter clearly had issues with his family, since he killed his Mother, Father and Brother, and the only reason the school was involved was because she worked there.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

I'm a little numb right now. It's a truly sad and shocking event. I don't really think there's anything to really say except that the families deserve our sympathy and respects

 

[Washburne]

Naturally this is horrible. Anyone feeling different I can't understand at all. When something bad happens people try and find someone to blame. Be it parents, school, religion, doctors (that didn't give people the right treatment, ignored it and so on) or as it seems now, gun control laws.

I kind of get where [MENTION]Tueuse de Vampires[/MENTION] are coming from in the first post but in my mind it's to simplify things. I do agree with it to some extents though but you can't expect people to see it that way when they're upset by a tragedy. It's difficult enough when they're calm since their intentions weren't anywhere near what happened in this tragedy. The choices we make as a whole always end up somewhere. We just ignore it most of the time. Taking care of the earth is a great example of that. Money and luxary is more important.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I hate that saying so much. Still it's true. But what's also true is that guns sure helps. There's other ways to hurt or kill people but besides bombs what works "better" for a madman to use? Lets face it, the whole purpose of a gun is to kill. Maybe not people, but to kill. Don't say "No it's to threaten and hopefully not be used". It's doesn't work if the gun can't carry out the threat. The atom bomb anyone?

Discussing gun laws is very difficult. If you like guns you're seen as a gun nut that want to shoot everything and everyone. Or at least have the chance to if you want. While if you want stricter gun laws you want to get rid of every excisting gun in the world. You don't care that there's hunters, collectors and responsible people that know what they're doing. It's not that simple of course but how things seem to end up when the discussion comes up. No wonder people can't agree.

There was also an attack in China where a man stabbed 22 kids to death. He used a knife, not a gun...

It doesn't change the point that you can do evil without a gun but last I heard none died.

My thoughts are with everyone affected by the tragedy. I could say prayers too but that would be a lie since I don't pray.

---------- Post added 12-15-2012 at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-14-2012 at 11:54 PM ----------

I have no idea if this is true but if it is, sadly I'm not the least surprised. Every single one a tragedy but maybe, in time, use the tragedies to make some changes. Unless you don't think you need them.

31 U.S. school shootings since Columbine. School shootings in every other country in the world combined since that time: 14.

 

[Abbeycat]

It's incredibly sad that something like this happened. 🙁

 

[white avenger]

Before this runs off into another argument (not debate) on the issue of gun control, I might suggest reading this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/1homicidal-countries-2011-11?op=1

Strangely, despite what many people rush to point out as the so called "lax" gun control laws in the United States,we don't rank in the top 20 countries for greatest homicide rate, and the ones that do make the list have far more stringent, if poorly enforced, laws than we have.

I think that just about everyone on this Board knows my feelings about the effectiveness of gun control laws, on local or national level, so I see very little point in restating them here. I would like to point out, however, that there is already a law prohibiting the use or possession of firearms on school grounds, plus, obviously, a law against murder, neither of which worked as any more of a deterrent in this case that they have in previous equally tragic events. Adding more laws that do nothing more than restrict the law abiding citizens, but which are universally ignored by criminals, terrorists, and psychopaths, is not the answer to the problem.

 

[kittenpoker]

I don't even know what to say about this! Except I hope this is our(humanity's) bottom.... And it's only up from here....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I was on another forum where a post from a person in Connecticut came in at 11:04:

"My partner just had to leave, there was a shooting at his son's school. Repotrts are that a teacher shot the principle, they can't find the teacher."

There have been school shootings before, but I don't recall elementary schools being targeted - just high schools and universities. It is more likely than you think that you know someone who knows someone that is affected directly.

We used to be more ambitious - 40 years ago today, the last man (Gene Cernan) walked on the moon.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Before this runs off into another argument (not debate) on the issue of gun control, I might suggest reading this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/1homicidal-countries-2011-11?op=1

Strangely, despite what many people rush to point out as the so called "lax" gun control laws in the United States,we don't rank in the top 20 countries for greatest homicide rate, and the ones that do make the list have far more stringent, if poorly enforced, laws than we have.

I think that just about everyone on this Board knows my feelings about the effectiveness of gun control laws, on local or national level, so I see very little point in restating them here. I would like to point out, however, that there is already a law prohibiting the use or possession of firearms on school grounds, plus, obviously, a law against murder, neither of which worked as any more of a deterrent in this case that they have in previous equally tragic events. Adding more laws that do nothing more than restrict the law abiding citizens, but which are universally ignored by criminals, terrorists, and psychopaths, is not the answer to the problem.

To me, that article makes the point stronger in favour of stricter gun laws, like look at the countries on the list you have to use to justify America not being on that list.

Obviously I don't think things are going to change, as people believe its their right to have a gun, but seeing how the rest of us can function without them, there really shouldn't be a problem. Clearly that's coming from someone who hasn't been around guns, so I don't see the point in them like other may do.

I've seen it allot on twitter about people mentioning that after 9/11, there was a complete change to how to how we fly, for every country the process was completely changed, and something like this has happened so many times and there hasn't been a major change.

I guess I can't understand the desire of having a gun, over the risk it brings. Even if you teach your kids gun control and how to use a gun, proper care and all that, there are to many risk factors that make it okay to have guns legal for me.

I was reading that they don't have a motive yet (if there is any), but the shooter had a personality disorder.

Also read that the gun was used in the murders today was obtained legally, registered to the shooters mom.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

I guess I can't understand the desire of having a gun, over the risk it brings. Even if you teach your kids gun control and how to use a gun, proper care and all that, there are to many risk factors that make it okay to have guns legal for me.

I was reading that they don't have a motive yet (if there is any), but the shooter had a personality disorder.

Also read that the gun was used in the murders today was obtained legally, registered to the shooters mom.

That's exactly what I mean. Even people that are usually emotionally stable and don't have a psychological disorder. It just takes one moment of going over the edge, and let's be honest, it's pretty easy to reach that moment. Found out your partner has been cheating on you? In debt to someone who is blakmailing you? Somebody abusing your child? These are all reasons people might use gun violence, even if theiy're normally thinking clear. And in all these scenarios, guns make it just so much easier to react impulsively and just 'punish' the person you hold responsible.

really, in my opinion, something that can kill so easily (yes, say it's for hunting, but that's essentially also killling) does not belong in a normal human citizen.

Hey, why not hand out atomic bombs to everyone. That way if we get pissed at our neighbours we can show our whole city our dismay and be sure they never be starting shit again.

Also read that the gun was used in the murders today was obtained legally, registered to the shooters mom.

People still saying gun laws aren't at fault? To me that's 20+ deaths on all the gun supporters in America, most of which children.
I do feel kinda bad for bringing this up in a thread probably ore adequate for mourning, but if it doesn't get discussed in connection with a severe case like this, people will never take the repercussions on lax gun control seriously.

 

[white avenger]

Obviously I don't think things are going to change, as people believe its their right to have a gun, but seeing how the rest of us can function without them, there really shouldn't be a problem. Clearly that's coming from someone who hasn't been around guns, so I don't see the point in them like other may do.

Speaking strictly for myself, I have no problem "functioning" without a gun. I simply object to the idea that taking my gun away from me will somehow deter someone else from obtaining and misusing one.

As has been pointed out and proven too many times to count, criminals will ALWAYS find a way to get whatever they need to commit their crimes. By definition, criminals do not obey laws, so simply passing more laws never has, and never will, prevent crime.

 

[Pike]

I do wish to extend later on gun laws and the medical crisis here in the U.S. However, I must say that I have three kids who currently go to elementary school and I think I have been sick to my stomach all day thinking about this event. The idea that this even happened makes me sick. I couldn't imagine what the families of ALL of those involves are going through.

 

[Robb Stark]

This will be the last time I post on this thread, because it's getting more than a little out of hand.

I have no use for guns. To be honest, I despise them. I can't stand hunting (although I don't have a problem with people who do like it) and as such, to me, there's no real purpose whatsoever with ordinary citizens possessing firearms. To me, they belong in the hands of the police, the military and with very few other exceptions, that's about it. I have zero issue with tightening gun laws because frankly, I don't see what possible purpose they have. Criminals will always commit crime, yes, and despite what others have said the vast majority of gun violence IS committed with firearms that aren't legal. From the most recent reports I was able to find, the gunman today used Sig Sauer and Glock hand guns, and a carbine rifle. According to the report I found, the only one obtained legally was the rifle.

Crime decreases when the opportunity for crime decreases. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. I will gladly provide the studies to anyone who would care to dispute that.

Now, all that being said, I don't think it's appropriate or even remotely sensitive to the situation and the grief people are feeling to say that anyone who opposes gun control bears responsibility for what happened today. That's crap. In 2011 a gunman walked into a police station and started shooting out of a desire for revenge against police. Do the police bear responsibility for his actions, because they'd previously arrested him? Of course not, and if you think they do, give your head a shake.

I'm not saying easy access to guns is a good thing. Anyone who read the first part of this post can see that. However, not supporting gun control does not, at all, make you responsible for what happened today. Frankly, it's sick if you think it does. This was the act of someone very deranged, very evil, or both. That's all. Would it be better if his access to weaponry could have been restricted? Absolutely, but the fault lies with him, the man who committed the acts, and him alone.

And the example of North Korea and nuclear weapons has zero correlation to this at all. You're defending a nation that operates death camps and has shown zero rational thought. I'm more than a little tired of people politicizing events like this in some of attempt to rap America on the knuckles or something.

It's fine to support gun control. I do myself, big time. But regardless of your views on the matter, grow up and show some respect. That goes for everyone on both sides of the argument.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

My heart is certainly heavy today. This has to stop. When will it stop? What do we need to do? Ban guns? Serve the mentally ill better? Whatever it takes it needs to happen. Our children are not safe, even at school. Absolutely horrifying. I can't imagine what those families and the community are going through. My thoughts are and will be with them in these coming days.

 

[Washburne]

Before this runs off into another argument (not debate) on the issue of gun control, I might suggest reading this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/1homicidal-countries-2011-11?op=1

Strangely, despite what many people rush to point out as the so called "lax" gun control laws in the United States,we don't rank in the top 20 countries for greatest homicide rate, and the ones that do make the list have far more stringent, if poorly enforced, laws than we have.

USA, who wants to be the leader of the world and "tell others how to live their life" isn't on the same level as poor (I mean really poor, not what we in the west see as poor) and many times warstruck countries. Good for you. To me it just don't make the point you hope for. Lets agree to disagree.

I would like to point out, however, that there is already a law prohibiting the use or possession of firearms on school grounds

Can you please tell me if this is right or wrong? Not trying to prove any point. Just curious.
"Just 18 hrs ago, those Republicans in the Michigan House rammed thru a bill making it LEGAL to carry a gun into a school or day care center."

As has been pointed out and proven too many times to count, criminals will ALWAYS find a way to get whatever they need to commit their crimes. By definition, criminals do not obey laws, so simply passing more laws never has, and never will, prevent crime.

So in the US it's easy to get a hold of a gun illegally and everyone that go crazy and shoot people (be it lots of people in a school, one person anywhere or used in a robbery) have planed it enough and in advance to go get themselves a gun to go through with it. I'm doubtful.

To me, and I admit I can be wrong, it feels like the easy access to guns legally is a part of why it's easy to get one illegally.

Once again, stricter gun laws isn't the same as making it illegal for everyone to own a gun. But can we agree that there's a difference between a handgun and hunting riffles? My grandpa was a hunter and had quite a few hunting riffles at home. I never had a problem with that.

Wanting stricter gun laws is not an attack on the good gun owners. It's not a personal thing, it's in the bigger picture. It's not a all or nothing discussion so why make it one? That obviously goes for both sides. I have no problem saying there's plenty of "good" gun owners.

Personally I wouldn't feel a bit safer if people could go around with guns on them, or in a purse, for protecion. Not to mention having at least one at home. But that comes from a totally different upbringing so I understand that not everyone feel that way.

 

[Taake]

Whatever my thoughts on gun control might be the news of this just makes me heartsick and I find myself unable to think of anything else than the parents of these poor children. I can't speak the sorrow I feel for them and their losses. Today I will hug my baby bro extra tight and feel thankful that he's still with me. Since I'm not religious I can't really Pray but I hope and beg for the parents in this tragedy that they Will find the strength to survive this themselves.

 

[Nix]

Rest In Peace

That's all 🙁

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Speaking strictly for myself, I have no problem "functioning" without a gun. I simply object to the idea that taking my gun away from me will somehow deter someone else from obtaining and misusing one.

As has been pointed out and proven too many times to count, criminals will ALWAYS find a way to get whatever they need to commit their crimes. By definition, criminals do not obey laws, so simply passing more laws never has, and never will, prevent crime.

If that were true the rest o the world would have the same number of school shootings as the US does. One of the stats they discussed yesterday on the news was since the first recorded shooting, in Europe there has been 19 school shootings, while for the US it's 90! That's all of Europe, which has a higher population then the US. That stat alone basically says without easy access to guns it's less likely to happen.

The criminal may always find a way to commit crime, but why should that mean it should be easier for them to do it

despite what others have said the vast majority of gun violence IS committed with firearms that aren't legal. From the most recent reports I was able to find, the gunman today used Sig Sauer and Glock hand guns, and a carbine rifle. According to the report I found, the only one obtained legally was the rifle.

Any of the reports I've seen all say the 3 guns used, the two handguns and rifle found in the car were all registered to the mom and legal. Their are reports of other guns in the school but doesn't seem to be any information on them yet.

And the example of North Korea and nuclear weapons has zero correlation to this at all. You're defending a nation that operates death camps and has shown zero rational thought. I'm more than a little tired of people politicizing events like this in some of attempt to rap America on the knuckles or something.

I know the Korea thing was brought up at the start if the tread, but I don think it was mentioned since, but I don't think people are just bashing America, we're discussing a law America has that made the shootings today easier to happen, just because people in other countries can't understand why America has that law, one that seems to cause so many problems, doesn't mean their bashing the country.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Honestly, it's sad, of course, but Americans kinda bring these things on themselves. No other developed country has to deal with as many shootings as the States, and yet the majority of people still seems to be against better gun control (as in: ban them mostly, like most other countries do). Just think about news stories like these the next time you insist on your 'right to bear arms'.

Tell me Americans, is your government doing anything to prevent those massacres? Federal or state? It's a pattern that keeps repeating itself, a shooting takes place, everybody is sorry for like two days tops, next month another shooting takes place ( average is 20/year ) and nothing changes.

Your society obviously has a problem with violence, is anything being done to solve that problem?


A friend of mine once said. I want to disagree with him but then I take a look at the raw data and it's like, I don't know anymore. What's the cause of all this violence?

USA, who wants to be the leader of the world and "tell others how to live their life" isn't on the same level as poor (I mean really poor, not what we in the west see as poor) and many times warstruck countries. Good for you. To me it just don't make the point you hope for. Lets agree to disagree.



Can you please tell me if this is right or wrong? Not trying to prove any point. Just curious.
"Just 18 hrs ago, those Republicans in the Michigan House rammed thru a bill making it LEGAL to carry a gun into a school or day care center."



So in the US it's easy to get a hold of a gun illegally and everyone that go crazy and shoot people (be it lots of people in a school, one person anywhere or used in a robbery) have planed it enough and in advance to go get themselves a gun to go through with it. I'm doubtful.

To me, and I admit I can be wrong, it feels like the easy access to guns legally is a part of why it's easy to get one illegally.

Once again, stricter gun laws isn't the same as making it illegal for everyone to own a gun. But can we agree that there's a difference between a handgun and hunting riffles? My grandpa was a hunter and had quite a few hunting riffles at home. I never had a problem with that.

Wanting stricter gun laws is not an attack on the good gun owners. It's not a personal thing, it's in the bigger picture. It's not a all or nothing discussion so why make it one? That obviously goes for both sides. I have no problem saying there's plenty of "good" gun owners.

Personally I wouldn't feel a bit safer if people could go around with guns on them, or in a purse, for protecion. Not to mention having at least one at home. But that comes from a totally different upbringing so I understand that not everyone feel that way.

This is the last time I'm going to post in this thread because some of you are making me so angry I can hardly see straight. This thread has been completely derailed from the original topic, and I don't want to take part it in it anymore.

First of all, I have to say that this post was created as a way to show condolences for the victims of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary. It was in no way meant to open up a venue for people to start an argument over our country's laws and culture, and all the condescending attitudes and Anti-American comments in some of your comments are highly offensive and absolutely revolting. If you don't like America, fine, but don't act like every single American is a psycho with the tendecy to get violent and crazy when they get pissed about something.

As far as those of you who keep throwing out statistics about how the US has more shootings than anywhere else in the world, well yeah... We have more people in one of our larger cities than some smaller countries have in their whole country, so that's not really a fair comparison, is it? Of course our numbers will be higher because we have more people.

I am really disgusted by the direction of this thread, and frankly, I can't stand to look at it anymore. Instead of having a heart of compassion, some of you have taken this in an ugly direction, and it's making me physically sick to look at.

No country is perfect. Not the U.S., not any country in Europe, not Australia; all of us have problems within our societies. When horrible things happen in other countries, such as the bombings in London that happened back in the early 2000's, you don't see American's saying "Well England brought it on themselves" or deconstructing your laws and your culture, making ignorant, offensive remarks.

I do agree that our gun laws need to be tightened up a little. Our government needs to work harder to crack down on those that sell guns illegally to help make it harder for people who don't need guns to obtain one. However, criminals are never going to follow the law. If someone has it in their head that they are absolutely going to kill someone, the law is not going to stop them; they will do whatever it takes to make it happen. And as far as the shooter in yesterday's attacks using his mother's legally-obtained gun? Well that's a case for people needing to make sure their guns are locked up better and not easily accessible to someone who would want to steal them; that's what gun cabinets and safes are for.

If you wish to discuss this furthur, go right ahead, but as long as the ugly attitudes toward our country is the focus of the thread, I'm out.