Scott Allie replies to fan response to issue # 34....

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Oh, man I know this will got a lot of discussion...

From the Editor
Scott Allie, Editor
Accusations of Porn
Updated: 04/28/2010

"We’ve all had a few weeks to process Buffy the Vampire Slayer #34. I’m not gonna deny that there was a certain amount of … outrage. There were people who were surprised and taken aback simply by the level of sex and nudity in the comic, and I’m sorry we didn’t warn people enough. Please note there are no actual parts shown. Sure, it pushed the limits, but with no nipples, no genitals, I was surprised by the accusations of porn.

There were a lot of fans who objected on other grounds, including legions of Spike fans who were as unhappy to see these two together as the Angel fans were satisfied. The recent storyline has shown me a whole new level of intensity in Buffy fans, and in particular the so-called “shipping” faction. For those that don’t know what that word means, and I only barely do, “ship” is short for relationship, and has to do with fans fixated on one relationship over another, or over all others. “Ships” get adorable names, like Bangel and Spuffy, and the fans, or “shippers,” become identified as Bangels or Spuffys. Anyway, back on planet earth …

There were plenty of readers that just didn’t want to see Buffy sleeping with the guy in the mask, no matter who he was, because he was behind all this horror -- but hopefully next issue will make it more clear that that’s not exactly who Angel is. But for many different reasons, the reaction to Buffy #34 was strong, to say the least. It’s great to see such passion from the readers. I’m sorry we’re not exactly pleasing everyone, but we certainly seem to be keeping you interested. Buffy #35 will be out in a matter of days, and we’ll get to see what readers really think of this whole Twilight thing, with pretty much all those cards on the table.

Joss is juggling an increasingly crazy schedule as we head into the final arc. Film rewrites, massive directorial obligations … well, it wouldn’t be fun if it weren’t a challenge. Stay tuned --"

Scott

Source: Buffy Zone :: Dark Horse Comics

THOUGHTS!?

My initial reaction:

Firstly, not all fans of Spike are Spuffies. *grr* He shouldn't make that assumption that all fans of Spike were "unhappy" to see Bangel together.

"A whole new level of intensity" LOL! "so-called shipping faction" *grr*

Jesus Christ... My God. How condescending!!!!! Shippers are fans, too. He should have some respect. After all, WE'RE the ones who buy the comics and PAY HIS SALARY.

 

[Mumrik]

“Ships” get adorable names, like Bangel and Spuffy, and the fans, or “shippers,” become identified as Bangels or Spuffys. Anyway, back on planet earth …

Yeah, I think he could have worded especially this part better. It sounds a little condescending. I think he was just trying to be funny, though.

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

"The recent storyline has shown me a whole new level of intensity in Buffy fans, and in particular the so-called "shipping" faction. For those that don't know what that word means, and I only barely do, "ship" is short for relationship, and has to do with fans fixated on one relationship over another, or over all others. "Ships" get adorable names, like Bangel and Spuffy, and the fans, or "shippers," become identified as Bangels or Spuffys. Anyway, back on planet earth "¦"

I lol'd even though I ship (a little) myself...but not "Bangel" or "Spuffy".


"There were plenty of readers that just didn't want to see Buffy sleeping with the guy in the mask, no matter who he was, because he was behind all this horror "

^My point of view on the matter...


"but hopefully next issue will make it more clear that that's not exactly who Angel is."

...'kay?

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I say we organize a Season 8 boycott. We'll see how much Scott "Condesender" Allie likes that.

The fans are the ones who buy the comics. If we don't buy them, he doesn't get paid. He doesn't need to talk to us like children. I also LOVE how he blames the fan response, not the on the fact that the STORY MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE.

I love how he feigns surprise at the "passion" and "intensity" of the fandom.

Give me a break.

Un, hello? Maybe he should have done a little research before he accepted a job as the editor in chief on the comic continuation of one of the biggest fandoms in popular culture.

 

[Big Damn Hero]

i don't get the outrage.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

i don't get the outrage.

Really? I thought his response was disrespectful, rude, condescending, and not to mention the fact that he's totally clueless.

---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

Note: I'm sorry I swore. I totally didn't even realize, and it's too late to modify my previous post...can a mod fix it for me? I don't want to get an infraction.

Sorry. 🙂

I guess I'm an example of that "passion" and "intensity" Allie is referring too.

 

[Eleftheria]

Interesting words by Scott. Well just because certain body parts are not shown doesn't make it ok...anyway, I hope they make clear who the hell is Twilight exactly. Cause no matter what story they will give us, I will never believe this is the Angel I have known and loved in 3 seasons of BtVs and 5 seasons of his own show.

 

[Stakesteak]

I looooove how he tries to act astonished that people would make a connection between that issue and pornography. Extremely graphic sexual actions with only the slightest bits concealed are still porn, Mr. Allie. You try something like that on national television and just wait and see what the censors will call it.

 

[Five]

I thought that was kind of funny. Let's face it, it's true we can all get a little intense about the Buffyverse, sometimes...

 

[GrrArghx]

There were a lot of fans who objected on other grounds, including legions of Spike fans who were as unhappy to see these two together as the Angel fans were satisfied.

Umm... I haven't met ANYONE who's 'satisfied' with this story. ESPECIALLY Angel fans.
They completely ruined 'our' Angel. Why would anyone be satisfied with that?

There were plenty of readers that just didn’t want to see Buffy sleeping with the guy in the mask, no matter who he was, because he was behind all this horror.

THIS is why people are upset. I doubt it has anything to do with Spuffy or Bangel.

 

[citiegal17]

I'm not sure how he is surprised by the outrage, Buffy a feminist icon, decided to have sex with someone who is responsible for the death of slayers. The ships have very little to do with the way it potrays Buffy, as well as devaluing the lifes of the potentionals. If Angel isn't what we think he is then why does he thinks it is an acceptable course of action to actively participate in the slayer hatred, and slaughter, that still makes him a traitor at least if he has free will which I still think he does? Simply pretending to be evil is not that much different than being evil sorry, the end result is the same and good intentions are not worth much, I judge someone by their actions not intentions but thats just me. Angel has already proved his okay with killing innocents in the name of greater good, and still calls himself a hero. Give Me a Break, that makes no better than a villain in my book, and no moral ambiquity in this case is on the same level of evil, I highly doubt there wasn't a better course of action than one he choose, if you choose to order to have someone killed then are responsible for their murder whether you killed them yourself or not, but don't say it makes you any better than someone who is responsible all the killing it the first place, it doesn't jive sorry.

 

[frankie]

I didn't really find it condescending, but for those who did, I can be condescending back. 😀 Who is this guy!? It didn't really impact on me at all, if it had been Whedon or Espenson I might have cared, but to me he's just the guy who wrote a crappy comic, and he can portray it as deep and meaningful as he wants, but it was basically an issue of two characters screwing. Not a lot of writing involved. When he writes a decent comic, I'll care. 🙂

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I didn't really find it condescending, but for those who did, I can be condescending back. 😀 Who is this guy!? It didn't really impact on me at all, if it had been Whedon or Espenson I might have cared, but to me he's just the guy who wrote a crappy comic, and he can portray it as deep and meaningful as he wants, but it was basically an issue of two characters screwing. Not a lot of writing involved. When he writes a decent comic, I'll care. 🙂

He didn't write the comic, he edited it. Brad Meltzer wrote it, based on Joss's plot.

Yeah, his "back on planet earth" remark was... unwise. Considering how much interaction he has with the fandom, you'd think he'd realize how important the "Bangels" and "Spuffies" are to the popularity and financial success of Buffy.

My objection to Buffy sexing it up with Angel was less based on "who he really is" as "who Buffy thought he was." They really miscalculated if they thought Angel's quick "I didn't kill anyone" explanation was supposed to justify Buffy going from homicidal rage to uncontrollable horniness in 30 seconds time. Especially considering the things she, and we, KNOW he's done or authorized done against her and her Slayers.

 

[Mumrik]

I kind of understand where he could be coming from. Fans of any kind can be pretty intense and if you haven't experienced that first-hand can be overwhelming. Although I DO think he knew there would be strong responses coming, he's been teasing about the current issues for a long time so he definitely hasn't been as clueless as he wants us to believe. I think he's back-pedalling.

The issue is very graphic, yes, but I don't think it's worse than, say, "Where The Wild Things Are". There are no actual parts shown and you could get away with most of it on TV with very little cutting. It's risky, sure, but porn is an entirely different thing.

Frankly, I'm not as upset as many people probably are - and are going to be -, but I understand why someone would be upset by this - without actually going to the plot of the issue.

 

[Kean]

Personally, I think he has a very valid point. I'm a shipper through and through and I think things got out of hand in the fandom with the reaction to the last couple of issues, to the point where I have just stopped taking part in conversations about it all together. Considering the level of shite that he gets from fandom, I don't blame him for being a bit snarky. In fact, I say more power to him, why should he just let people character assainate him across the internet and not respond?

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

THIS is why people are upset. I doubt it has anything to do with Spuffy or Bangel.

Yeah, it goes beyond shipping.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Yeah, it goes beyond shipping.

Absolutely. I don't give a rats A** if S/B get together in the end. I just don't want this universe to be destroyed by lazy writing, bad continuity, and character assassination.

I am *this close* to boycotting and denouncing the comics.

 

[Mumrik]

Personally, I think he has a very valid point. I'm a shipper through and through and I think things got out of hand in the fandom with the reaction to the last couple of issues, to the point where I have just stopped taking part in conversations about it all together. Considering the level of shite that he gets from fandom, I don't blame him for being a bit snarky. In fact, I say more power to him, why should he just let people character assainate him across the internet and not respond?

The main problem, I believe, is the way it's worded. It's not exactly professional behaviour to imply your fans (or rather, the fans of a thing you're making a living with) are crazy/behaving like little children.

I think the fan reactions are quite overwhelming, too, but that's just expected after such a long build-up.

ETA: And personally, I have never seen anyone talk smack about the man himself before this. In my opinion, it was just not necessary. State your case, by any means, but be professional about it and don't belittle your fans.

 

[Kean]

The main problem, I believe, is the way it's worded. It's not exactly professional behaviour to imply your fans (or rather, the fans of a thing you're making a living with) are crazy/behaving like little children.

I think the fan reactions are quite overwhelming, too, but that's just expected after such a long build-up.

Is it really expected though? Such vitriol and down right nastiness? I'm as passionate about these characters as a fan can be and still feel he is justified.

I certainly agree that the piece is hardly the prime example of correspondence between the voice of a franchise and its fans but I can't say I don't appreciate the sentiment or don't think it needed to be said.

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

There were plenty of readers that just didn't want to see Buffy sleeping with the guy in the mask, no matter who he was, because he was behind all this horror -- but hopefully next issue will make it more clear that that's not exactly who Angel is.

WTF?

All of a sudden it´s not the Angel we all know from Bvts and his own show? So who is he? A robot,alien,alternangel or is he just a smurf in an Angel costume?

Yeah i got it. Angel was just controlled the whole time because he has the willpower of a freakin muppet. Seriously that´s just lame. Mindcontrol is not always the answer if a character does things we would never expect.

I just want him to be Angel or some hybrid Angelus thingy. No mindcontrol,no greater good,not anything just a evil and psychopathic Angel. Of course it would be devastating to see him like that but at least it would make some sense.

I´m sick of all that Twilight bullshit. He turned his back on humanity because he realised how pointless his fight was and how much he sacrificed for "them". He can´t redeem himself. Ever.

The conversation between Twilight(universe,the first or whatever) and Angel:

Angel: I´m here to kill you. Once and for all. The humans deserve to live and you have no right to decide what´s best for them. I don´t care if it´s their destiny. I don´t give a f*ck about destiny and i will do anything to put an end to this.
Twilight: Look into my eyes. Look into my eyes.
Angel: I can´t see anything. Oh wait..... Yes master!

Like i said willpower of a muppet...

There is no freakin goddamn logical(at least for me) reason for killing innocents. The greater good doesn´t count for me anymore.

I hope Buffy acts like Dean Winchester and just says screw destiny! I´m not destinys bitch and i make my own decisions now.

And now i´m upset. Again...