Scrap the First

[Edmund Blackadder]

I've been thinking about this recently.

The First was potentially a great villain for the final season BUT I think that the show missed a trick.

It should have gone right back to its roots.

I don't know what you guys think but Buffy the Vampire Slayer's final season big bad should have been a Vampire.

On top of that, I think a fantastic way would have been for the final big bad to be a Slayer turned.

They could have followed alot of the same themes, while making it more about the Slayer.

I mean a Vampire with Slayer strength would have been something Buffy would have had a tough time with. She could still have raised the Ubervamp Army.

Vamp Watcher as well🙂

 

[olol]

The big bad were a lot of übervamps.. I think its better this way.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

The big bad were a lot of übervamps.. I think its better this way.

What ?

 

[Cohen]

The big bad were a lot of übervamps.. I think its better this way.

No, actually, the Big Bad were the First. er, was the first.

 

[LorneyTunes]

I think the first could have hurt buffy alot more by using, maybe Joyce or even Kendra.

 

[Fake Shemp]

Like Faith comes back and gets vamped.......... i LOVE it


and we have a big show down with Faith leading the Firsts army

 

[yellowcrayon]

I loved seeing Nathan Fillion as Caleb, but the First itself was kinda... dull in a way. It wasn't as Big and Bad as say Spike/Dru, Angelus, the Mayor, Glory, etc.

I hafta say, I like the idea of seeing a Slayer-Turned-Vampire and her Vampire army go up against the Slayer and her Slayer army. 😉 It'd be interesting to see what they would have done different in preparation, etc., if they knew they were going up against a former Slayer...

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I loved seeing Nathan Fillion as Caleb, but the First itself was kinda... dull in a way. It wasn't as Big and Bad as say Spike/Dru, Angelus, the Mayor, Glory, etc.

I hafta say, I like the idea of seeing a Slayer-Turned-Vampire and her Vampire army go up against the Slayer and her Slayer army. 😉 It'd be interesting to see what they would have done different in preparation, etc., if they knew they were going up against a former Slayer...

I really like that idea.

It would have been a great twist for it to have been the Slayer immediately preceding Buffy.

There is no reason why Nathan Fillion couldn't have played a similar role - as mentioned in my post, the Slayers Watcher.

That would also have been a great fight.
Could you imagine a sword fight duel to the death of Nathan Fillion's Watcher and Giles?
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Keanoite agrees: Do I smell a fic in the making?

Do you know what, I too smell a fic in the making.

Anyone wanna join me?
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Keanoite agrees: I'm in.

Ohhh we could totally do a Alternate Verse Buffy Season 7 on the boards.

A fanfic but episodes if you will.

Many writers, one main theme and many stories.

Off the top of my head, the basic story could be:

Buffy, Dawn, Xander, Willow, Giles and Anya are exactly the same place they are at the end of season 6.

The first 'episode' would be interesting to be done without Buffy Summers until the very end.
It could be the story of the Slayer and her Watcher that ends with the Slayer being vamped and Buffy being called.

We then start a story introducing this new Slayer-Vampire with back story slots along the way, maybe showing a rise to power and how she was watching Buffy.

This would then obviously lead to the formulation of two opposing armies.
Potentials vs Ubervamps.

That way the Slayer Army being called has a reason and not just a silly ending to them being there when Spike saved the day.

 

[Kean]

I really like that idea.

It would have been a great twist for it to have been the Slayer immediately preceding Buffy.

There is no reason why Nathan Fillion couldn't have played a similar role - as mentioned in my post, the Slayers Watcher.

That would also have been a great fight.
Could you imagine a sword fight duel to the death of Nathan Fillion's Watcher and Giles?
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Do you know what, I too smell a fic in the making.

Anyone wanna join me?
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Edit:
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Ohhh we could totally do a Alternate Verse Buffy Season 7 on the boards.

A fanfic but episodes if you will.

Many writers, one main theme and many stories.

Off the top of my head, the basic story could be:

Buffy, Dawn, Xander, Willow, Giles and Anya are exactly the same place they are at the end of season 6.

The first 'episode' would be interesting to be done without Buffy Summers until the very end.
It could be the story of the Slayer and her Watcher that ends with the Slayer being vamped and Buffy being called.

We then start a story introducing this new Slayer-Vampire with back story slots along the way, maybe showing a rise to power and how she was watching Buffy.

This would then obviously lead to the formulation of two opposing armies.
Potentials vs Ubervamps.

That way the Slayer Army being called has a reason and not just a silly ending to them being there when Spike saved the day.

You know you just described something very similar to a fic I started writing years ago and never got around to finishing.

Ok...I like this idea, let me see how I can make it run as a boardwide thing, we already have the Wishverse in the works and they are almost the same thing (in concept) but it is definitely something worth pursuing.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

You know you just described something very similar to a fic I started writing years ago and never got around to finishing.

Ok...I like this idea, let me see how I can make it run as a boardwide thing, we already have the Wishverse in the works and they are almost the same thing (in concept) but it is definitely something worth pursuing.

Its an idea that is something I kind of expected to see in the show and wonder if/why Joss stayed clear of it.

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

This is seriously a huge idea. I've always wanted to see a turned Slayer. I was in fact sort of amazed that we've never seen a Slayer vamp. She would really be the ultimate big bad.
If this actually is going to happen, I'm in. After all, there needs to be at least one Spike fan ^^
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Its an idea that is something I kind of expected to see in the show and wonder if/why Joss stayed clear of it.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say. It would have been such a chance for him and the other writers to write some truly memorable stuff.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Ohhh what would be awesome.

Do we have any people that can actually draw/use the computer to compose a picture of the two armies facing each other🙂

That would be awesome.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I'm beginning to suspect that the idea of the First Evil as a villain was too ambiguous and complex for many viewers. No one seemed to like the idea of the First Evil representing the evil within all beings. Or seem unwilling to accept it. How sad.

I cannot help but wonder if many of them would have preferred a more simplified villain - similar to Big Bads like the Master, Angel and Mayor Wilkins.

 

[atticus]

Yeah i always wondered since seeing Buff vamped out in season one, why this story wasn't done. For a while in season 3, i had a feeling that Faith was going to be turned, never happened. But yeah, i think the show missed out on a great story. Maybe not season 7 though, because i do like the idea of the first, just not how it was executed. Just way to much went unanswered. Mainly why it didn't turn into the people you would expect. Tara, Kendra, Jesse. It would have been cool to see in season 4. A 'vampire' slayer, who had turned her watcher. Would have been nifty.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Yeah i always wondered since seeing Buff vamped out in season one, why this story wasn't done. For a while in season 3, i had a feeling that Faith was going to be turned, never happened. But yeah, i think the show missed out on a great story. Maybe not season 7 though, because i do like the idea of the first, just not how it was executed. Just way to much went unanswered. Mainly why it didn't turn into the people you would expect. Tara, Kendra, Jesse. It would have been cool to see in season 4. A 'vampire' slayer, who had turned her watcher. Would have been nifty.

It's the same story as Faith in Season 3, only she doesn't become a vampire. Why would she? She ended up embracing evil, anyway.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Yeah i always wondered since seeing Buff vamped out in season one, why this story wasn't done. For a while in season 3, i had a feeling that Faith was going to be turned, never happened. But yeah, i think the show missed out on a great story. Maybe not season 7 though, because i do like the idea of the first, just not how it was executed. Just way to much went unanswered. Mainly why it didn't turn into the people you would expect. Tara, Kendra, Jesse. It would have been cool to see in season 4. A 'vampire' slayer, who had turned her watcher. Would have been nifty.

See I disagree.

The First evil could have been an interesting addition to say season 6, but the thing that Joss at the time was constantly emphasising was that season 7 was a back to basics season.
Thats why alot of the episodes are similrly titled to earlier episodes and we're given glimpses of old enemies.
But here is the thing, the villain is not a hark back.
You want to really go back to basics, you go to Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

There it is in the title of the show. As Buffy grew in strength and confidence, Vampires were becoming less and less a threat, but had a Slayer been turned, well thats a whole different bag.

A Slayer-Vampire would be able to play on Buffy in ways the First couldn't begin to. It plays on what she is and who she has become.

The First as a concept was great, Amends being a fantastic episode, but the execution was dire and at no point was it believable that Buffy wouldn't win against it.

You did get the moments of doubt against The Master, Angelus, Glory and even Willow, and for good reason, in half of those show downs, Buffy died at some point.
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It's the same story as Faith in Season 3, only she doesn't become a vampire. Why would she? She ended up embracing evil, anyway.

Faith did evil things for evil people BUT I don't think she ever embraced evil.
She longed for what Buffy had and Mayor Wilkins offered her that.
She wanted a father and got one.

This is evidenced often in the relationship but best seen in This Years Girl/Who are you when she has gotten over the initial hurt and becomes a Slayer again by going to the church.
Further evidence can be seen in Angel.

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

I like Spike - I am sorryI forgot him from the list!

Nvm, after all, he wasn't really there in the first couple of episodes ^^
I just got a bit, well, scared because you see, if it was up to Kean, Buffy and Angel would probably get married at the end, and I just couldnt let that happen 😛

But anyway, I could give the drawing a go. I can't do portraits, but I'm quite good at drawing from imagination, so the Scoobies might look a little weird, but the vamp Slayer will be looking seriously cool ^^

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Nvm, after all, he wasn't really there in the first couple of episodes ^^
I just got a bit, well, scared because you see, if it was up to Kean, Buffy and Angel would probably get married at the end, and I just couldnt let that happen 😛

But anyway, I could give the drawing a go. I can't do portraits, but I'm quite good at drawing from imagination, so the Scoobies might look a little weird, but the vamp Slayer will be looking seriously cool ^^

Awesome - because you are going to draw it, I shall let you name the Slayer(THOUGH I plan to give the Slayer a different Vmpire name, you just get the human name - this should help in the imagination of how she looks).

 

[Kean]

Nvm, after all, he wasn't really there in the first couple of episodes ^^
I just got a bit, well, scared because you see, if it was up to Kean, Buffy and Angel would probably get married at the end, and I just couldnt let that happen 😛

But anyway, I could give the drawing a go. I can't do portraits, but I'm quite good at drawing from imagination, so the Scoobies might look a little weird, but the vamp Slayer will be looking seriously cool ^^

Oi! I never said anything about Bangel...but now that you mention it... :hehe:

If we are going to pull off a project of this magnitude we need to have a clear outline of where we are going with it.

How many episodes? How often would we need these episodes? Writers will be a big thing.

Character outlines need to be discussed...it's a whole new season and really a whole bew version of the characters we know. On top of that our original characters need to be engaging and come to life straight away.

LOTS of work...

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Oi! I never said anything about Bangel...but now that you mention it... :hehe:

If we are going to pull off a project of this magnitude we need to have a clear outline of where we are going with it.

How many episodes? How often would we need these episodes? Writers will be a big thing.

Character outlines need to be discussed...it's a whole new season and really a whole bew version of the characters we know. On top of that our original characters need to be engaging and come to life straight away.

LOTS of work...

You fanned the flames of an idea at the beginning of this thread - thats how long its been planned.

I will come up with a brief with alot of the information but not at 1am🙂

I will have one to you by Sunday and if you like what you read, we can progress.

I would ask that people send me some ideas and characters if they have them.