Season 12 Wishlist

[Mrs Gordo]

Buffy ends up with Parker Abrams.

LOL. In the biggest shocker of all!! Joss did say that Buffy's most important relationship ever was with Parker (DVD commentary of Chosen - yes I know he was kidding).

 

[Grace]

LOL. In the biggest shocker of all!! Joss did say that Buffy's most important relationship ever was with Parker (DVD commentary of Chosen - yes I know he was kidding).

Oh wow. Season 12: a four-part Parker Abrams redemption arc (with Fray thrown in somehow)!

 

[Taake]

Buffy has grown up, Parker has grown up. The true star-crossed lovers of the show, truly.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Buffy's most important relationship ever was with Parker

I been saying that since forever!

 

[gnarl]

I want some Drucilla.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I want some Drucilla.

I love Drusilla. She needed more airtime & her chance for redemption like the other three.

 

[Blair]

-I'd like Amy to de-rat. Again.
-A conclusion to what happens with Harmony. Was disappointed that we didn't see her in season 11, minus the alternative cover of issue 12 (or was it 11? Whatever)
-Andrew to return
-Willow to have a nice girlfriend and be happy. Not that I think it'll happen, but Tara to come back. I think the ship has certainly sailed on that one though.
-Dawn and Xander to be happy together
-Bonus points if Dracula gets killed off. He annoyed me in season ten. I know it's minor, but the first time around reading the comics I thought he did die (I need to re-read comics a few times to get everything) and then on my re-read to understand he's alive. Nope, kill him off please.
-Giles to go back to adult form and to be reunited with Olivia.
-A check in on Satsu, Billy, Kennedy and all the other random allies
-Faith and Buffy to finally make peace with the past without awkwardness. The end of season 11 was looking pretty good. I'd like for her to really be part of the Scooby gang, rather than her doing her own individual thing. Acceptance into the Scooby family would probably be a great thing for her.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I think Dracula is unkillable... he's an icon.😎
 
Uhm, didn't we kill that bitch witch Amy already?!

 

[Blair]

Nope, Amy is a rat. Again. Season 10, issues 10 of Angel & Faith.

 

[Forever Spuffy]

But not fit his AtS character. Angel wants friends/family/connection. It's about time the story goes against the eternal punishment because that would be shockingly new. Give Angel everything he wants and Spike ends up with nothing, revolutionary. Which is why it won't happen. But ultimately it doesn't matter because...

I wish for everybody to die, in every reality. So that this poor, dead horse (aka the franchise) can finally stop being beaten.

Yeah, cause what Buffy wants doesn't matter she's just Angel's prise !!!

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Yeah, cause what Buffy wants doesn't matter she's just Angel's prise !!!

I agree it should be about what Buffy wants, she is not some prize (not for Angel and not for Spike). Although some would argue it feels like Spike has won his prize. He set out to get a soul to get the girl. He got a soul and got the girl. Joss said it himself when he said that he is the better long-term guy because "He went and got a soul." So it cuts both ways.

And really, what does Buffy want? Has she truly been afforded a choice in the matter? Present her with a curse-free Angel option. Maybe she picks Spike, maybe she pulls a Kelly Taylor and chooses herself (shout out to @Grace 's fic). But if this is a question of choice, she has not really been presented with all of the options?

 

[Antho]

I have never seen Buffy as prize whathever is her boyfriends

 

[Forever Spuffy]

I agree it should be about what Buffy wants, she is not some prize (not for Angel and not for Spike). Although some would argue it feels like Spike has won his prize. He set out to get a soul to get the girl. He got a soul and got the girl. Joss said it himself when he said that he is the better long-term guy because "He went and got a soul." So it cuts both ways.

And really, what does Buffy want? Has she truly been afforded a choice in the matter? Present her with a curse-free Angel option. Maybe she picks Spike, maybe she pulls a Kelly Taylor and chooses herself (shout out to @Grace 's fic). But if this is a question of choice, she has not really been presented with all of the options?

I don't see it that way. Spike grave her an out and she didn't want it. She wanted to fight for him and she did. She told him she loved him and looked really happy doing it. Spike understands/gets her better than anyone, she's even said so herself. Spike sees her as a partner, companion, lover and friend. Angel sees her as something to covet, to protect. That's not what she wants. She's her own person who can make her own decisions and don't need his critiquing. She's in love with Spike and happy, I don't get why people can't just let her be happy. Even if Angel had his soul anchored or became humane do you really think Buffy is that shallow to just say see ya Spike, nice knowin ya, sorry I used you again and broke your heart, you were just convenient and I deserve an Oscar for my performance.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Angel sees her as something to covet, to protect. That's not what she wants.

I disagree with this. First, if Angel wanted to "covet" or "possess" Buffy he wouldn't have broken up with her, moved away, or given up his humanity so she could live a life without him. Further, this idea that Angel is "overprotective" when it comes to Buffy is not really based on canon evidence. I've written about this before elsewhere so I'll just quote it here:

So let’s examine how Angel behaves when he is with and around Buffy to see if he is ever “too protective and overbearing” with Buffy:

Angel in s1 BTVS: You really can’t make the argument that Angel considered himself Buffy’s great protector during Season 1. He would pop in, give her some information, during The Harvest he basically said: “some dangerous stuff going on down there but I’m outie.” He was no one’s great protector that season and he was just providing casual assists to help Buffy fill in the blanks. Xander was more of Buffy’s protector during Prophecy Girl.

Angel in s2 of BTVS: Angel comes into his own a bit the early part of this season by being more of a partner to Buffy, helping her patrol, and helping with some scooby investigations. But I never hear Angel say anything that would constitute over protectiveness. And in fact, Angel is saved by her in WML so that everyone knows who the stronger of the two are.

Angel in s3 of BTVS: Angel is gaining confidence in this season. He expresses concerns regarding Buffy being careful and worrying about her which are I think normal sentiments for a loved one when your significant other has a dangerous line of work. For example, the spouse of a police officer might say “take care of yourself honey” and I don’t think this means that the spouse believes the police officer incompetent or unable to perform his job without assistance but a genuine concern over the wellbeing of someone you love. At no time does Angel tell Buffy to stay home, not go out patrolling, not to fight or do her job. Angel merely backs her up.

The break up may be seen as Angel’s protecting Buffy from himself. But ultimately, Angel’s breaking up with Buffy is not just about protecting her but protecting a whole lot of people. If Buffy and Angel stayed together, they are risking triggering his curse. Triggering his curse would not only mean death and destruction to Buffy but to many innocent people that Angelus may decide to harm. And Angel’s decision to break up and leave Buffy is greatly informed by Buffy’s desires for a normal life (at this time in her life) and Angel’s understanding that he cannot provide that to her. This decision is about Angel himself as much as it is about Buffy.

BtVS s4/AtS s1: The first time we really see Angel’s being protective over Buffy is when he makes the decision to crossover go to Sunnydale during Pangs. However, you have to remember that it’s not like Angel woke up one morning and thought to himself “Hmm I wonder if Buffy is safe.” No. His connection to the PTB had a vision of Buffy in trouble. The Powers literally send Angel messages that they want him to act upon. So it would have been rather ridiculous a notion for Angel to get a message directly from the Powers about Buffy needing an assist and him ignoring it. His decision not to let Buffy know he was there was stupid but understandable. It is never easy seeing an ex. Angel is trying to carry out the Power’s mission without making things any more difficult for Buffy. And anyway, Buffy calls him out for being stupid about it in IWRY.

During IWRY, Angel allows Buffy to team up with him to track down a big ass green demon. So Angel isn’t protecting her, he knows she is stronger than he is and he could use her help in dealing with the demon. After he turns human and they share the happiest day ever, he makes the decision to fight the demon alone. I really don’t think this is about protecting Buffy. Because he knows he is human and not nearly as strong as she is. When Doyle asks if Angel wants to wake Buffy and he says “not for the world” my interpretation is that he doesn’t want to ruin this day for her. Also, he tells Doyle that he needs to know that he can still do things on his own without relying on Buffy. This is less about Buffy and more about finding out if he is going to be able to hold his own in Buffy’s world now that he is human. He quickly decides the answer to that is a resounding: No.

Here again, the decision that Angel makes to turn back the day (not to erase any memories…. btw) is made for a number of reasons. One of them is because the Oracles have told him that Buffy will die sooner if he remains human. I always find it incredibly interesting when people feel they have a problem with this because how selfish would it have been of Angel to have been like “cool too bad for her but at least I get to eat lots of ice cream”? But also, Angel tells Buffy that part of his decision to become a vampire again is directly related to the fact that he won’t be able to save or help as many people. This decision is not all about protecting Buffy. It is also about protecting the people they were meant to protect. And by the way, Buffy understands this.

When Angel and Buffy see each other during the Sanctuary/Yoko crossovers you certainly can’t make the argument he is trying to protect her there. Afterall, he hits her then yells at her to get out of his city. In fact, it is Buffy who is incredibly overprotective of Angel in this episode - she chases down Faith when she thinks she is after Angel and then she makes a scene at the police station when Kate is about to stick him in a jail cell so that he can burn. (Again they are both protective of each other not always a bad thing). But when Angel goes over to Sunnydale, he sees she is injured knows she is up against some big bad and yet he trusts her to be able to handle herself and after she turns down his offer to stay and help he walks away no questions asked.

AtS s4/BtVS s7: The next relevant example where Angel is presented with an opportunity to help Buffy is during Home. W&H offer Angel a chance to go and help Buffy. He says: “Buffy can handle herself.” The only reason he taks the amulet is to save Connor. When he goes to Buffy in EoD he provides an assist to Buffy when she is in a difficult position with Caleb and then when Buffy says she wants to finish this on her own he happily obliges, he stands back, crosses his arms and settles in for the show. Again, not really seeing how this is Angel being too protective or having a power struggle with Buffy. When the fight is over, he once again offers to stay and help and when Buffy says no he leaves just as she requests.

AtS s5: TGIQ is the only time I really see Angel (and Spike) being extremely overprotective of Buffy in a strange and OOC way for both of them. I suppose you can chalk it up to personal feelings about The Immortal but it is Spike that (jokingly) suggests they lock Buffy in a box where no one can touch her. To which Angel replies that he doesn’t think she would let them because she is pretty strong.

For the above reasons, I don’t believe that Angel is extremely overprotective or incredibly overbearing where Buffy is concerned. While I do think it is in his personality to want to protect those he loves. He doesn’t see Buffy as weak or unable to fight on her own. Angel has shown as late as s7 of BtVS that he respects Buffy an equal and feels she is more than able to handle herself.

Even if Angel had his soul anchored or became humane do you really think Buffy is that shallow to just say see ya Spike, nice knowin ya, sorry I used you again and broke your heart, you were just convenient and I deserve an Oscar for my performance.

I truly believe that Comic!Buffy loves Spike. I don't think she is using him, or lying to him. It is very evident that is not the aim of Christos' story. I think Buffy also cared very deeply and maybe even loved Riley. That doesn't mean that Buffy didn't/doesn't still have feelings for Angel. In season 10, she says she doesn't know what she feels for Angel and that she found that notion scary. If Angel had his soul anchored or became human then Buffy would consider her options, search her feelings and make a decision on who she wanted to be with. If that choice was Spike because she is currently happy with him then good for her. All I am trying to say is that she has not been presented with this option.

 

[Forever Spuffy]

I disagree with this. First, if Angel wanted to "covet" or "possess" Buffy he wouldn't have broken up with her, moved away, or given up his humanity so she could live a life without him. Further, this idea that Angel is "overprotective" when it comes to Buffy is not really based on canon evidence. I've written about this before elsewhere so I'll just quote it here:





I truly believe that Comic!Buffy loves Spike. I don't think she is using him, or lying to him. It is very evident that is not the aim of Christos' story. I think Buffy also cared very deeply and maybe even loved Riley. That doesn't mean that Buffy didn't/doesn't still have feelings for Angel. In season 10, she says she doesn't know what she feels for Angel and that she found that notion scary. If Angel had his soul anchored or became human then Buffy would consider her options, search her feelings and make a decision on who she wanted to be with. If that choice was Spike because she is currently happy with him then good for her. All I am trying to say is that she has not been presented with this option.

I must have seen a different "Pangs". She was pretty pissed about him showing up and interfering and not letting her know he was there and giving up his humanity for her is bs, he did it for himself cause he couldn't handel not being strong and about her being in danger of dying, that's every damn day she walks out her door. Where was he when she was fighting Glory ? Why didn't he help with Dawn or the hellmouth. No he was off in Tibet cause it was all about him not Buffy's family/friends.
She may not have known how she felt about Angel then but that was season ten, its in the past. She's moved on, matured, its over a year later. She wouldn't have moved on with Spike if she was waiting for a chance with Angel some day. Been there done that, has the t-shirt. She knows her life is not a waiting game, its day to day and she's going to be happy and she is.
Even if she had the option to be with Angel right now from what I've seen and read in season 11 she would never take it. She is in love, let her have it. Yes I'm 110% Spuffy but if she was with Dawling (think I spelled that wrong) or someone else (not Angel) I may not like it but I would be happy for her cause she more than anyone deserves it.

 

[Antho]

Where was he when she was fighting Glory ? Why didn't he help with Dawn or the hellmouth. No he was off in Tibet cause it was all about him not Buffy's family/friends.

Seriously ? I think the answer is simple. He was on his own show which was on a different network which make the crossover more complicated to do. That's why we never saw the meeting between Buffy and Angel in season 6. Are you seriously blaming him for that ? That's not fair IMO.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I must have seen a different "Pangs". She was pretty pissed about him showing up and interfering and not letting her know he was there

Yes and I said that here:

And anyway, Buffy calls him out for being stupid about it in IWRY.

giving up his humanity for her is bs, he did it for himself cause he couldn't handel not being strong and about her being in danger of dying, that's every damn day she walks out her door.

Him ignoring the oracles implication that him staying human would cause an earlier death for her would've made his decision to stay human a pretty crappy one in my opinion. But I agree that there is an element of his giving back this humanity that was not about Buffy. Ultimately, Buffy's life being in danger was the tipping point but Angel does have a life and mission outside of Buffy. He may not have felt his calling was over despite his love for her. The choice of duty over love is an honorable one in my book.

Carry this whole thing forward to s7, if Angel stays human no Connor, no deal with W&H, no amulet, maybe everyone dies?

Where was he when she was fighting Glory ?

In another dimension.

Why didn't he help with Dawn or the hellmouth. No he was off in Tibet cause it was all about him not Buffy's family/friends.

Because he was on another network. Was Dawn the new protector of the hellmouth after Buffy died? Either way, neither the hellmouth nor Dawn is left unprotected. There is a watcher and two witches there. Also a vamp with a chip.

She's moved on, matured, its over a year later.

Is it over a year later? Its a 12 issue season so I can't tell how time moves in the comics. Anyway, with respect to "she's moved on" you very well might be right. All signs seem to point in that direction.

Even if she had the option to be with Angel right now from what I've seen and read in season 11 she would never take it. She is in love, let her have it. Yes I'm 110% Spuffy but if she was with Dawling (think I spelled that wrong) or someone else (not Angel) I may not like it but I would be happy for her cause she more than anyone deserves.

So you would be happy for her if she was happy with anyone except for Angel? Then surely you can see my struggle at seeing her with Spike. In any case, agree to disagree as this has derailed the OT.

 

[debbicles]

Whatever we want or hope for our favourite - and even not favourite - characters, JW does like to stomp on our hearts. Like so many posting on this thread, I have no desire to see any of them trashed/turned into something unrecognisable/made into the villain of the season and dcai, I feel your pain on that.

I sincerely hope they all unite against an outside threat and that none of them switches sides. But this is Buffy and I'm adopting the brace position.

 

[RomanticSoul]

Yeah, cause what Buffy wants doesn't matter she's just Angel's prise !!!

Because I mentioned Buffy in my post? Oh wait, I didn't. I would appreciate not having words put in my mouth. Thank you. I don't care about Bangel or Spuffy as endgame. I said that Angel deserves to have things he has wanted for himself (not as some sort of prize) instead of being eternally punished by Joss because he's got issues.

You are free to hate a character all you want (even for reasons that don't make sense) but I'm a real person so don't transfer your hate onto me, thanks.

 

[debbicles]

[QUOTE="dcai0830, post: 1333977, member: 14447"

I truly believe that Comic!Buffy loves Spike. I don't think she is using him, or lying to him. It is very evident that is not the aim of Christos' story. I think Buffy also cared very deeply and maybe even loved Riley. That doesn't mean that Buffy didn't/doesn't still have feelings for Angel. In season 10, she says she doesn't know what she feels for Angel and that she found that notion scary. If Angel had his soul anchored or became human then Buffy would consider her options, search her feelings and make a decision on who she wanted to be with. If that choice was Spike because she is currently happy with him then good for her. All I am trying to say is that she has not been presented with this option.[/QUOTE]

Lord I hope I make this quote thing work.
True, I was thinking along the same lines recently. Much as I really hope romance and angst take a back seat...