Season 4: Angel's most ambitious season?

[Hale Caesar]

Just a thought I had in another thread and figured it would be fun to expand on it here. Joss Whedon really did seem to want Angel season 4 to be the biggest and best he's done (I would argue it was more ambitious than any Buffy season). I mean let's break it down, Cordelia is back from the higher plane, the beast, the apocalypse, Angelus is back, Faith and Jasmine. Even though the ending is a little...less than spectacular, the first 3/4 of the season is fantastic and (IMO) shows Angel at his best.

 

[Connor Holtz]

Whedon was more wrapped up in the final season of BtVS at this point but nonetheless, I agree. Season Four was really grandiose and I loved it but you won't find a lot who'll agree with us. Mostly hate will pour into this thread unfortunately.

 

[Tome]

I totally agree. Season 4 of Angel will probably always be my favorite of any Whedon shows. Just awesome... until the last 3 or so episodes.

Brandon, you know I got your back on this one. 😎

 

[Lyri]

Personally, I love S4, it's probably my second favorite season. But I think a lot of the big ideas that this season had came out of the fact that Joss had to change so much at the last minute. He's ideas for this season had to be rewritten, thanks to Charisma and her pregnancy, and for some reason I think that made him think that, if he couldn't have the season he wanted, he had to make it better than anything he'd ever done before, and I think that message got lost somewhere along the way.

Now, obviously, I have no idea how many, if any, of the factors of S4 where in Joss's original plan, but we know that Jasmine was a last minute addition to the season, and I think that's where he kind of lost the plot, so to speak. Everything up until then was great, Jasmine seemed, to me, a clunky way to get rid of Charisma, and that's the way it played out on screen.

 

[Marisa]

It is hard for me to pick just one favorite season of Angel but even after everything that happened this one is still one of my favorites I go into it knowing it may not end the way I want it but it is one great season overall when you think about it.

I don't know if Joss was trying to go for the biggest season of all maybe he was I think that he went with a lot story wise for Angel overall.

 

[Thamior]

I'll agree that the intentions for this season were very impressive. It's true, it seemed like everything was coming together for an epic finale. And, from far away, it seems like there's nothing that could be wrong with it. The characters develop in interesting and original ways, the BBEG is definitely different than anything we've seen before, and past characters are returning in new ways. I have two problems with this season, one much bigger than the other. The first and smaller problem is the lack of WR&H. I always thought that having them as a consistent enemy gave the show a lot of cohesion. Unlike Buffy, where very, very few story archs go through multiple seasons, Angel has a common goal throughout - beat Wolfram and Hart. Unfortunately, WR&H get slaughtered in the first half of the season, and disappear until the very last episode.

The bigger problem I have is that the episodes aren't that good. You can have great, original storylines, and AtS s5 does, but if you don't have good episodes to back them up, the result still won't be good. For me there are too many bad or meaningless episodes for this season to be good. Other than Orpheus and Soulless, I really don't like the middle of season 4.

So, in the end, I do agree with you. Joss tried to do something big, and, IMO, it didn't work.

 

[Taake]

Season Four was really grandiose and I loved it but you won't find a lot who'll agree with us. Mostly hate will pour into this thread unfortunately.

Agreed, I love how grand it is and for me, though there are a few weak points, I can overlook them for the sheer operatic scope of the season in its fullness. It's probably my favorite season because of the journey the characters and plot go through... it's reminscient of a Greek tragedy but in a modern setting and I love it for that.

 

[spikecakes]

To say Joss was also doing BTVS season 7, he did a bang up job of keeping Angel season 4 as amazing as it was. I never get tired of watching that season, in fact my mouth still hangs agape when unexpected things happen 😛

The Beast actually terrified me, it went way beyond anything I've ever seen on BTVS, even down to his voice, kinda reminded me of Dracula. Even though I really wanted the real Cordy back, Charisma played this new character really well. Go her!

 

[sisterofmercy]

I think it was a bit much for 1 season, but it did keep you gripped nonetheless.

 

[VisionGirl]

Whedon was more wrapped up in the final season of BtVS at this point but nonetheless, I agree. Season Four was really grandiose and I loved it but you won't find a lot who'll agree with us. Mostly hate will pour into this thread unfortunately.

He was also working on Firefly all at the time same time, although I disagree with you: of the 3 projects, I think Buffy season 7 got the raw end of the deal.

I love season 4, and I do agree it is incredibly ambitious: HP/evil Cordy, Jasmine, the Beast, Angelus, Faith. But I DO think it works. There are some things I don't like about it (I think the minute Angelus got out of the cage his dialogue turned incredibly lame & was certainly not as good as BTVS s2, and I don't like what they did with Cordy at all). But overall I find it highly entertaining, it's one of my favorite seasons.

 

[Bluebird]

I loved season 4. I mean, it was very very silly, but entertaining to say the least. I still can't fully grasp what the hell's going on most of the time when I watch it, but it's quite a ride when you're in it.

 

[Hale Caesar]

He was also working on Firefly all at the time same time, although I disagree with you: of the 3 projects, I think Buffy season 7 got the raw end of the deal

How do you figure Buffy s7 got the raw deal? I think the writers were clear in what they wanted to do and bring the show back to the beginning...but the season just ended up sucking because Joss gave to much attention to those lame Potentials and never seemed to have a purpose for the "Core Four"


And don't get me started on how upset that no one cared about Anya's death...

 

[LondonDude]

I actually enjoyed series 4 and I also found Connor a interesting character(but i wish they have done more with this character). I also felt the writers rushed this season. but overall I enjoyed it.

 

[TeamSunnydale]

when i first watched season 4, i didn't particularly like it, but after a rewatch or two, i've liked it better. i think it was quite ambitious and that whedon really had alot going on, but i think possibly the writers let him down a bit. like, i HATED what they did to cordy. that was just disgusting. i'm sorry, i just hated that.

 

[The Scourge]

I actually really liked the end of the season, after Cordy slipped into a coma. It was painful watching her be evil.

Plus, I loved the episodes with Fred on the run with the guys trying to hunt her down and kill her.

That said, I wouldn't call this the most ambitious season. It may have initially been planned that way by Whedon, but I hear many reports of how plots were changed due to GQ's death, CK refusing to return to be killed (lol), CC's pregnancy, etc.

The season felt poorly thought out at times, due to the story having to constantly be written as they went along.