Season 7 Revelations

For that matter Jesus farted. I know very banal, but he did, just though I'd let you know as it has as little to do with this discussion as jules' comment above. I get where you are going at, but Jesus wasn't an aspect of God. They were both aspects of the three-unit (free translation from dutch). Which together fuelled the believe of ppl.
 
I'm not even going to reply to that comment Allycat, as I said I wasn't going to turn this into a religious debate.
 
You know what Jules? I think I can live with the "Jesus solution" to this problem.

Jesus seems to be mortal on earth and immortal in heaven with the possibility of resurrection.

I could see that as a possible solution to the Glory quandry. She could be mortal on earth, but immortal in Hell.

The problem is Ben claims he is mortal, and Glory is immortal. In the Buffyverse there are restrictions on mortal resurrection as explained in S6.

Perhaps immortals in the Buffyverse have a different set of restrictions to resurrection on earth, a la Jesus.

Is Jesus a God? Depends on who you're talking to. I guess the same could be said of Glory.

Here's an interesting by-product of this theory though. If it were true, then by Buffyverse rules, The First could appear as Jesus.
 
Well said N4H. 😉 Nice example Jules. 🙂

Hmmm...well, I think that the first simply copied the biological human vessel that emprisioned Glory. It wasn't HER in essence but it wasn't ANY of them in essence. It was just a carbon copy of her shell that is now very much dead as Ben is dead. IMO.

Hey, could the First have been Miss Kitty or would that not work? 😛
 
Actually, I think that's an interesting question. Is inter-species impersonation possible.

It could possibly explain the demon thing that appears with Joyce in Conversations With Dead People.
 
LOL! It was the red bull! Run unicorn run! 😛

That would be pretty cool. It reminds me of the thread from forever ago where we started to discuss the possibility of vampires turning animals and we fantasized of the beautiful possibilities of an evil army of vampir penguines...lol...
 
Really? That's interesting. I don't remember that thread.

I must have read it though, because I ripped of the idea for a fanfic one time-- the penguins, and everything.

Interesting how you can steal an idea, and not even know you did it.

Anyway, I'm a fan of inter-species vampires, and again it would be nice to be able to explain away that demon-thing in CWDP.

Come to think of it, I guess if The First could impersonate a God, it could also impersonate a demon.
 
Going back to the whole god thing, I am pretty sure that the Egyptian gods could die, because it happens all the time in their legends. The only problem with the death of gods is that in any setting in which a god exists, other magical events such as resurrection are usually possible as well. However, a god usually transcends its corporeal form anyway, so I think Rayne is really on the right track.

As for vampire penguins, how would they draw blood to feed? They have no teeth to grow fangs from. Would they just impale someone with their beak and start sucking? Can penguins suck? Would they prefer human blood or penguin blood? I have a feeling I missed out on a fun thread. 😛 Is it still up so I can see?
 
You're thinking of Osiris, right?

The god Osiris, was the first king or pharaoh on earth. After Osiris was killed by his brother Seth, Anubis (the son of Osiris) embalmed the body and wrapped it in linen bandages making Osiris the first mummy. After death Osiris became ruler of the underworld.
Click to expand...

Again just like Glory or Jesus, Osiris is mortal on earth, but lives on elsewhere, so yeah, I agree. The way Rayne described it is starting to make the most sense.

It allows for Glory to be both mortal and immortal, strange as that sounds.

She could still be a God, so I withdraw revelation # 2, and mark it off to careless speculation.
 
The whole Glory thing was explained in season 5!!

He was a God in her dimension, but the other 2 gods in that dimension fought her and sent her to Buffy's dimension, imprisionating her in the body of a mortal. She could resurface every once in a while, but not permantly and she wasn't as god-like as she would have been in her dimension. Since his prison was the body of a mortal (Ben), if Ben died, Glory would die as well.
 
Yeah that's a good way to put it. Ben was her prison, and from time to time she pops out.

In fact didn't she say something one time about her "meat sack prison", or her "prison of meat and bone", or something like that?

I do remember her and Ben were talking in Weight of the World, and they said this.

GLORY: You can't hurt her and you know it, Ben. (sits down on a pile of bricks) I know it 'cause I feel what you're feeling. Scared. Shh! Shh! It's okay! You don't wanna die. Who would? I don't.

BEN: You can't, you're immortal.
Click to expand...

Ben say's Glory is immortal, but he's not.

It's OK though. You got here late. Rayne explained it to me in a way that makes sense.

Although Glory is Immortal, the body she is trapped in on earth is not. The First made a copy of that.

I like your prison analogy though, of Glory being imprisoned inside Ben. It helps me get a clearer picture of it.
 
Some of the Greek gods died as well. Dionysus was torn apart by his own followers. Zeus castrated his father, and, damn, if he didn't die, wouldn't he want to? Herakles died, and was taken to Olympus and married to one of Zeus's handmaidens. The Osirus stuff above is a good explanation of the egyptian myth, and if you want another, go to Inside Out and look up the INSANITY thread...
 
Cool KD... Let's talk Greek Gods. I love that stuff.

I remember the stories slightly diffently than you do though.

Doesn't the phrase "twice-born" come from the Dionysus myth.

As I recall the story, it wasn't the followers of Dionysus that pulled him apart. They pulled apart some king Dionysus was staying with.

The way I remember it the giants pulled Dionysus in 7 sections, cooked him in a cauldron and ate him. After that the blood of Dionysus gets mixed up with a human female somehow, and Dionysus is reborn.

I'm pretty sure Zeus didn't castrate his father (Cronus). He threw Cronus and his Titan followers into the abyss of Tartarus.

Cronus castrated his father Uranus (the sky) with a scythe during the act of Coitus with his mother Giaia (the earth). This is why the earth is separated from the sky.

A little thing like castration won't kill a God. If you remember Hephaestus splits
the head of Zeus in two. This doesn't kill Zeus. It only gives birth to Athena.

Heracles I'm not sure about. Wasn't he poisoned by the Hydra's blood?

I know he was only half God with Zeus as his Father and a mortal mother. I think her name may have been Thetis. I may be mixing up bits of the Achilles and Heracles myths. I'm not sure.

Didn't Zeus make Heracles a God after his death? Isn't that why he took him to Olympus?
 
Yes N4H, upon coming home from his task, someone gave Heracles a piece of garnment with poisonous blood on it. Heracles burns to death from it (demi-gods are mortal) and then Zeus turned him into a real god.
 
I think it was his wife Dejanira(or however you spell it) that gave him that poisonous ****r I think...He was mortal,but stronger than normal people..
 
Thanks for the assists N4H. You are right, I mixed up Cronos and Oranos (Uranus). In some versions of the myth, Bacchus (the Roman equivalent of Dionysus) is killed by his followers.

Megara was Herakles' wife. She was jealous of Herakles' attentions to another woman, and sent him a tunic dipped in Centaur blood. Nessus the centaur had tried to kidnap Megara at an earlier time, and Herakles shot him with an arrow. As he died, Nessus told Megara his blood was a love potion, and to dip the tunic in the blood to activate the charm. In Olympus, he married Hebe, cupbearer to the gods.

Thetis was Achilles' mother. She was a sea-nymph, and her husband was Peleus of Phthia. It was at their wedding that Eris, the goddess of discord, rolled the infamous golden apple across the floor, and caused the Trojan War.

There are many versions of the Greek myths, due to the adoption of those gods by the Romans. Some of the best versions are by Ovid, a Roman poet, in Metamorphoses, and of course the Greek poet Homer, who wrote the Iliad and the Odyssey.

I really love this stuff, but sometimes I forget...
 
I know. Me too. It's interesting don't you think?

I'm thinking both me and you have at some time or another given a little study to the Greek Gods, yet we get stuff mixed up.

Now think of the time when the Greek Gods were actually Gods. The belief system covered vast regions, diverse cultures and hundreds of years.

Stuff got mixed up, and not just because of lapses in memory.

Take the Dionysus myth for instance. I recall reading somewhere the worship of Dionysus, originated pre-Greek, outside of Greece. As you pointed out he eventually gets culturally morphed into the Roman God Bacchus

Depending on the particular zeitgeist of a period or location, Dionysus was thought of as being everything from among the most important of the Gods to nothing more than a demi-god. I'm pretty sure Sophocles liked to dis Dionysus to devalue the God's importance.

It makes sense. The political environment alone might reguire less importance attached to a God of wine and revelry (think Sparta).

In these periods Dionysus would get demoted, and you would hear the myths of his death. At other times, in other places he would be thought of as more important. He would once more be a God, so he would have to be immortal.

The myth would be re-written to say yeah he died, but he came back.

The thing is you now have precedence in mythic or religious literature that says a God can die, yet live forever.

Once more I have to say, I was too hard on that "Gods must be immortal" thing. I was wrong.

Joss didn't do anything we haven't seen before.
 
Oh-oh! Sorry ana8, it was Denaria that gave Herc the Nessus shirt! Megara was his first wife. Herc went nuts and hacked her and his two children up because Hera had it in for him. I hate it when those brain cells flame out in public! And damn that Disney version...Philoctetes was Herc's comrade in arms, not some Satyr. He was important in the sack of Troy due to his ownership of Herakles' bow...Troy wouldn't fall until Herc's bow was used in the fighting.

N4H: I think you've captured the essence of the myth-rewrite conundrum. I've been reading Greek and Roman myth since high school, and I've never gotten tired of it...I always come on a new slant as I discover "new" ancients telling the myths. I just choked my way thru Apollodorus, a Greek writer. I didn't think anyone could make this stuff boring for me, but he sure made a good run at it! Nevertheless, he had a different slant on the stories, and emphasized the qualities and behaviors his culture found either important or hateful. The Dionysus myths are case in point as you so neatly summarized. I find it endlessly fascinating that these stories are still relevant, and that modern storytellers like Joss et al. can use them as a base to tell compelling tales. There's a level of inventiveness that hold me in awe, and even makes me a bit envious...I know the stories, but I'm not sure I have the imagination necessary to re-invent them in a modern form. So I end up getting my chuckles from understanding all the little references guys like Joss put into their stuff! Until I develop a sense of humour and a writing style, it'll have to be enough!
 
KD, did you hear they're making a movie of The Iliad? (I think they're going to call it Troy)

Brad Pitt as Achilles (they've gotta be joking), and the guy who played Bruce Banner in The Hulk as Hector (I don't see it).

I think it's gonna suck. I'll be there on opening night though. The Iliad is my favourite book in all of literature.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom