Season 9 news (Comic Con, etc.)

[Amyrat151]

I most certainly think that Angel is the baby's father - where would be the drama factor in the whole separation routine otherwise ? Purely Jossean and twisted route, is what I am expecting.

But didn't she get pregnant at the party?

 

[brinkster130]

Something about this discussion is bothering me; why do so many find it so hard to believe that Buffy would get an abortion? And more importantly, why it would adversely affect her? Yes, some women do regret their abortions - but many don't, and go on to live happy, satisfying lives.

For those of who don't believe that Buffy will go through with her abortion; would you think less of Buffy is she did? do you think it would reflect poorly on her character? Or, do you think it's out-of-character for her to consider one at all?

It's not the abortion itself that has me concerned, it's the story itself. Buffy should totally consider abortion; and being in her situation it's realistic. However, I worry that the writers did this more for shock than for the story. If she gets pregnant, decides to have an abortion, has an abortion then goes on with life as usual then what was the point of that? (Other than the writers on their soap box saying abortion is okay?) Also, like I said earlier, the idea that keeps coming up (from Buffy herself and the writers) that she can't handle it is very off putting. Although, like [MENTION=8821]Icarium[/MENTION] said earlier, Scott and Joss could mean she isn't willing more so than she can't; and are using that wording to help add shock and twist.

I wouldn't think any less of Buffy if she did go through with the abortion. Personally, the politics of abortion haven't really influenced my like or dislike of this arc. I also don't think it's OOC of her to consider it; being the slayer, questioning the paternity, not having a stable job or home, being in debt are all reasons that would certainly make one really think about such responsibility. One thing I find a little odd, is how for so long we heard Buffy say she wanted a normal life and it seems like this is a really good opportunity to walk away from slaying and try to have that normal life but she hardly seemed to consider that at all. In any case, at this point in the story I'm not thrilled, but that may change as the story unfolds. 🙂

 

[ladydorotea]

But didn't she get pregnant at the party?

No factual evidence in the comic itself - in fact the timing is all wrong because of the roomies reaction in #5. Anaheed want's to kick her out - after they found a cache of weapons in #4. There is a 3-4 days gap between 1 and 4, and no clear indication of why the roomies waited for weeks (?) to request her moving out. Which means the pregnancy test showed positive result 5-7 days after the party.

Allie's first interview basically implied 'yes she got pregnant at the party', in Allie's second interview to Buffyfest he refused to dismiss Angel as a possibility. Meaning SA is playing games with the fandom and all his answers about the timing of S9 vs S8 ending might be BS.

 

[white avenger]

Something about this discussion is bothering me; why do so many find it so hard to believe that Buffy would get an abortion? And more importantly, why it would adversely affect her? Yes, some women do regret their abortions - but many don't, and go on to live happy, satisfying lives.

Well, aside from the morality issue, whichever side you support, there is the fact that Buffy's entire purpose as the Slayer is to protect and preserve human life, even to the point of giving her own life in the process of doing so. Remember, "Faith, you KILLED a MAN"? There were no qualifiers on that. The fact that it was an accident, that the man in question was in league with Wilkins, or that he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, didn't matter. The Slayer protects others, she doesn't kill them. Aborting her baby could be interpreted by Buffy, and most certainly will be by quite a few fans, as betraying everything that she stands for by taking an innocent life.

 

[Miss Kitty]

No factual evidence in the comic itself - in fact the timing is all wrong because of the roomies reaction in #5. Anaheed want's to kick her out - after they found a cache of weapons in #4. There is a 3-4 days gap between 1 and 4, and no clear indication of why the roomies waited for weeks (?) to request her moving out. Which means the pregnancy test showed positive result 5-7 days after the party.

Allie's first interview basically implied 'yes she got pregnant at the party', in Allie's second interview to Buffyfest he refused to dismiss Angel as a possibility. Meaning SA is playing games with the fandom and all his answers about the timing of S9 vs S8 ending might be BS.

The timing is even more wrong if you want to consider Angel as a possibility, at least 6 months passed since the space-frake.

And as we see in 9#06, a vampire can smell a baby (Nikki was 4 months pregnant in the first flashback). Spike never noticed it, which means she's in the most earlier period of her pregnancy.

Scott Allie refused to give any answer, he doesn't want to spoil anything, which is understandable. But he's not the only one who said she got pregnant at the party. Joss Whedon & Andrew Chambliss also said it.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: When did you know Buffy would be getting pregnant?

ANDREW CHAMBLISS: That was something that Joss had always kind of set out from the beginning of conceiving season 9. It was definitely something we were building towards from day one, the first issue of the season where she’s got the crazy party and blacks out at it. It was always something Joss wanted to do.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: But I did want to ask about the way she got pregnant — at the party in the first issue of Buffy Season 9, after Buffy became black-out drunk. Her behavior at that party has already bothered some fans, and to learn she got pregnant there, and doesn’t know by whom, will bother some fans even more, especially those who want Buffy to be, well, more responsible.

JOSS WHEDON : I think that first of all that they should wait until they have all the facts and they’ll learn stuff that they didn’t know before. They should find out what happened before they completely judge her. But at the same time, this is also about the time in your life when you do things that are irresponsible, or that you want to hold yourself to account for. She’s a person living her life

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2012/02/08/buffy-season-9-joss-whedon/

 

[ladydorotea]

The timing is even more wrong if you want to consider Angel as a possibility, at least 6 months passed since the space-sex

Not really. All the evidence in the comic itself says 4.5 months +/- 2 weeks. If you discount Allies testimony and only take what is in the text of issue 40. Plus both Joss and Chambliss imply it is not entirely natural case, plus Allie refused to plain dismiss Angel as a possibility. And Angel's current arc's name is 'Daddy Issues'...

Spike never smelling it actually might indicate he never got close and personal enough to her to smell it. Same as he never smelled sex on her after/during the party or when she came back from neighbor's apartment.

What both Joss and Chambliss said is that we as a fandom simply don't know enough about the pregnancy - fact @the party was never stated directly.

 

[Miss Kitty]

Allie refused to plain dismiss Angel as a possibility.

Like he did for Spike, Xander and like he would have done for any men who've been near to Buffy. That's a part of his job. Except that the staff interviews and the timeline contradict the Angel possibility. It has been said textually that Buffy got pregnant at the party in the interviews I posted ("It was definitely something we were building towards from day one, the first issue of the season where she's got the crazy party and blacks out at it."), and in other interviews, by every member of the staff who've been interviewed (Joss, Andrew and Scott).

All the evidence in the comic itself says 4.5 months +/- 2 weeks

I didn't get the same timeline ^^ Anyway, even if she was 5 months pregnant, she doesn't look like 5 months pregnant... and Spike saw her several times during this period of time, he would have noticed it.

Spike never smelling it actually might indicate he never got close and personal enough to her to smell it

The vampire Nikki killed in the first flashback was near to her during maybe one minute, while they were fighting, and he did smell it 😉 Spike has been close to Buffy several times, even at the party in 9#01, we have a panel where his face is really, really close to Buffy's face.

Same as he never smelled sex on her after/during the party or when she came back from neighbor's apartment.

We don't know that for sure. It happened maybe after he left the party, or after he's been near to her. And even if he did smell sex on her the day after the party, he probably would have say nothing.

Plus both Joss and Chambliss imply it is not entirely natural case

Yes, but it also would be the case if the father of the child is Spike (and it would fit with what Joss said at the San Diego ComiCon : "[Spike] is gonna be a real factor in Buffy's life"), or if the fairies have anything to do with this, or if anything else happened during the party, or during the moment Severin tried to kill both Spike and Buffy with his power (that was the "climax" of the Freefall arc, they probably will developp some consequences later, it may play a role in the story). All those events happened in season 9, and I don't think Joss would want to connect the story of the current season to the story of the previous season. It would make the first arc of the season pointless...

And Angel's current arc's name is 'Daddy Issues'...

It has to do with Faith's father, Drusilla/Angel(us) and Giles and his father in the flashbacks. The story of this arc is apparently not connected to the Buffy comics. If it was, it would make no sense, since they don't even make any reference to Buffy or to whatever is happening in her life.

And they said several times that the two stories would be kept apart.

And if Buffy's pregnancy was connected to what happened in season 8, that makes all the "big deal" of 9#01 irrelevant, which is kind of lame.

I don't buy it, I'm sorry.

fact @the party was never stated directly.

The party was stated directly : "When did you know Buffy would be getting pregnant?", "(...) It was definitely something we were building towards from day one, the first issue of the season where she's got the crazy party and blacks out at it.".

 

[ladydorotea]

It has been said textually that Buffy got pregnant at the party in the interviews I posted ("It was definitely something we were building towards from day one, the first issue of the season where she's got the crazy party and blacks out at it."), and in other interviews, by every member of the staff who've been interviewed (Joss, Andrew and Scott).

No. What was said textually in this interview that Buffy's pregnancy was something they were building towards from day one of S9. And that the crazy party was part of the plot. And we know that Buffy now thinks the party might have been moment when she slipped. None of the interviewed stated more than that - read carefully.

I didn't get the same timeline

Read issue 40 - 'I have not spilled a drink in 4 months. Meaning between 34 and 40 there could have been only 4 months +/ a week. And there is no indication of when S9 starts after #40 of S8 except Allie's verbal testimony - which is no testimony at all.

Anyway, even if she was 5 months pregnant, she doesn't look like 5 months pregnant... and Spike saw her several times during this period of time, he would have noticed it.

She is a Slayer. Her body is not the regular woman's body - muscular tone wise. Nikki was 4.5 months pregnant when she had to pass her Cruciamentum ritual - and she did not know she was pregnant until she faced that vampire - it is not obvious from the comic itself, but it is based on the short story that exactly says so. (I read it.)

The vampire Nikki killed in the first flashback was near to her during maybe one minute, while they were fighting, and he did smell it

The vampire is holding her by the neck and leaning close. Besides, I would not put it past the DH to conveniently 'forget' about Spike's sense of smell when it suits them. He does not know she is pregnant in #6 either.

Spike has been close to Buffy several times, even at the party in 9#01, we have a panel where his face is really, really close to Buffy's face.

LOL. Buffy probably smelled more of that fruit punch than anything else at that point.

We don't know that for sure. It happened maybe after he left the party, or after he's been near to her. And even if he did smell sex on her the day after the party, he probably would have say nothing.

Supposition #1 excludes Heinrich and Xander then. Probably Riley too. Supposition #2 excludes him being overly surprised in #6.

Yes, but it also would be the case if the father of the child is Spike (and it would fit with what Joss said at the San Diego ComiCon : "[Spike] is gonna be a real factor in Buffy's life"), or if the fairies have anything to do with this, or if anything else happened during the party, or during the moment Severin tried to kill both Spike and Buffy with his power (that was the "climax" of the Freefall arc, they probably will developp some consequences later, it may play a role in the story). All those events happened in season 9

Spike would have had to (1) stay mum about drunken sex then, implying possible non-consensual activity, (2) lye to Eldre Koh about 'nothing sudsy' and to the Dawling about 'being over it', and be (3)'not sterile' vampire in the absence of magic. Buffy does not even bother to ask his opinion on the abortion - after listing him jokingly as a possibility, and Chambliss states that Spike's feelings are 'unrequited'. Meaning he could be accused of possible rape again, and of trying to get away with it . Do you really think Joss will go this way with him ? I hope not.

I don't think Joss would want to connect the story of the current season to the story of the previous season. It would make the first arc of the season pointless...

Oh yeah, Joss never planted the roots of the current season in the previous one... Restless was never full of premonitions and direct tie-ins. Neither was any other final episodes... The first arc was setting the scene for the 'world without magic' - but of course it has nothing to do with S8 either. (I am being sarcastic here.)

The story of this arc is apparently not connected to the Buffy comics. If it was, it would make no sense, since they don't even make any reference to Buffy or to whatever is happening in her life.

*Apparently* is the keyword here. Yup. Joss stories never have hidden context.

And they said several times that the two stories would be kept apart.

The lady does protest too much. (Not you - Allie.) In fact, continuous refrain of 'they are separated and are an ocean away from each other' is what makes it so suspicious. Btw, the next Buffy arc name is 'Apart'.

And if Buffy's pregnancy was connected to what happened in season 8, that makes all the "big deal" of 9#01 irrelevant, which is kind of lame.

The big deal was to create another 'mystery' like 'the closest betrayal' of S8. Like we never saw it before. One of the basic comic as media cliches.

 

[Icarium]

Angel being the father won't happen, IMO. Not because I trust Joss to do anything right but because the writers have tried very hard to ignore the spacefrak. A baby, or even an abortion if the father becomes known, would be big a reminder of that. Plus, so far the story has had the subtlety of a sledgehammer. It would be very odd if it suddenly turns out the party in 9.01 was just a red herring. Also, the story has been very pro-Spuffy. And nobody forced Joss to make such a big time-skip, he could have made it say a month and avoided the issue of Buffy not noticing the pregnancy for so long.

Furthermore, I don't see what Joss has to gain from Angel being the father. If Angel comes back to Buffy's story, "Angel and Faith" is finished. If he doesn't much of the fandom will whine "why doesn't he come back?!". Many of the others will whine if Angel does come back. Whatever the scenario is, it seems sure to piss off too many fans. Joss prefers to appease the main shipping factions as much as he can.

 

[ladydorotea]

Joss prefers to appease the main shipping factions as much as he can.

And here we ran into the same argument once again. I disagree. Joss goes for appeasement, but not at the price of his Big Game Plan. Look up his latest interview. The pregnancy he says is going to be - like I said, it’s going to end up being a storyline that is rooted in the Buffyverse - rooted in the mythos of the verse. Any ideas how drunken sex followed by abortion or unknown daddy are 'roots of the verse'?

 

[Icarium]

The pregnancy he says is going to be - like I said, it’s going to end up being a storyline that is rooted in the Buffyverse - rooted in the mythos of the verse. Any ideas how drunken sex followed by abortion or unknown daddy are 'roots of the verse'?

Zompires attack Buffy - cue convenient miscarriage, Joss gets to have his cake and eat it too.

 

[Miss Kitty]

No. What was said textually in this interview that Buffy's pregnancy was something they were building towards from day one of S9.

Still interpret it differently. They all evoked (more or less explicitly) the pregnancy as a consequence of the party in 9#01. I don't believe they answered to all their interviews while thinking obstinately that they had to evoke the party while talking about the pregnancy for us to speculate about the wrong thing. Sorry to come back to that again, since it seems we are interpreting it differently, but in the quote I posted from Chambliss, what I understand from it, is that Buffy getting pregnant was something they were building towards from the day of the party, because it was the day she got pregnant, while she blacked-out. She got pregnant that day and the pregnancy storyline started at this point.

I can't guarantee that my interpretation of his words is the good one, since English isn't my maternal language, and I don't have the pretention to think that I understand it better than a native speaker, but I really interpret it that way. Maybe wrongly, but anyway.

And Scott Allie said : "She got black-out drunk in #1, and it turns out there are significant consequences". If the 'significant consequences' aren't the pregnancy, it would make no sense.

Side note : I just read one of the Scott Allie interviews again, and : "Andrew is going to come back into focus pretty soon and have a significant role to play", he's maybe the father 😛

Read issue 40 - 'I have not spilled a drink in 4 months. Meaning between 34 and 40 there could have been only 4 months +/ a week. And there is no indication of when S9 starts after #40 of S8 except Allie's verbal testimony - which is no testimony at all.

I know. I said it before on another topic, but my way of seeing it :

1) 62 days passed during the Spike one-shot
2) Buffy worked for four months in that cofee shop

Which means that between 4 and 6 months passed between 8#39 an 8#40. It probably took time for Buffy to move on San Fransisco and for her to find a job (I would say one month), which brings me to at least 5 months since the Space-frake at this point. After that, between 8#40 and 9#01, she had to find a new place and new roomates, which probably took a while too. 6 months (at least) seems a good estimation to me 😉

The vampire is holding her by the neck and leaning close. Besides, I would not put it past the DH to conveniently 'forget' about Spike's sense of smell when it suits them. He does not know she is pregnant in #6 either.

I don't think a vampire needs to be so close for smelling a pregnancy (if Spike was able to find Buffy in Touched by following her scent, it's pretty much indicative of how much the vampire's smell is powerful). To me, Spike didn't smell it because Buffy is at the beggining of her pregnancy and the baby isn't really formed yet. And the heart of a fetus doesn't start to beat before 3 weeks if I'm not wrong. Spike could have hear it.

I think it wasn't an accident that they made clear that a vampire could smell a pregnancy in that issue. If Spike didn't smell it, the reason would be because she was still at the beggining of the first trimester of her pregnancy.

Supposition #1 excludes Heinrich and Xander then. Probably Riley too. Supposition #2 excludes him being overly surprised in #6.

I don't understand from where you come with supposition #1. And in the second case, knowing that Buffy had sex doesn't mean he can't be shocked to learn that she's pregnant. Sex doesn't equal pregnancy.

Spike would have had to (1) stay mum about drunken sex then, implying possible non-consensual activity, (2) lye to Eldre Koh about 'nothing sudsy' and to the Dawling about 'being over it', and be (3)'not sterile' vampire in the absence of magic.

From what we see, Spike was also drunk at the party, and I'm fairly convinced that he never would have slept with her if she wasn't perfectly able to accept it. Plus, there's some things we still don't know about this party (something related to the fairies maybe ?). Concerning the fact that he's a vampire, I've read a plausible theory related to what Severin did to Spike & Buffy in #4, so who knows ?

Buffy does not even bother to ask his opinion on the abortion - after listing him jokingly as a possibility, and Chambliss states that Spike's feelings are 'unrequited'. Meaning he could be accused of possible rape again, and of trying to get away with it . Do you really think Joss will go this way with him ? I hope not.

Huh ? What Chambliss said about "unrequited love" was based from Spike's POV of their relationship, and the way they play with it from Spike's perspective. The story itself contradicts the fact that his love for her is unrequited from Buffy's POV.

About the "rape" thing, I don't think Joss will go that way. And if he wants Spike to be the father, he'll probably find another way to do it.

Concerning the fact that Buffy didn't ask Spike's opinion, I don't think that Buffy believes she can be pregnant from a vampire afterwards, even if she tried to find ways for him to be the father (she wanted to believe it), while knowing deep down that it was impossible.

Buffy was ready to ask Spike to "run away" with her and her baby, and even if it was a really utopian idea, he's the one she wanted by her side, because of what he means to her (considering the cover of the next issue, we'll probably get some insight of Buffy's considerations about her future, and she clearly sees Spike in the romantic category). And she trusts him as much as she trusts Dawn, Willow & Xander for being a part of her life and her baby's life (besides your sister, your parents and your best friends, who do you consider like your family ?). And if I want to play with my shipper bias, I will even say that Spike is a category on his own, since she spelled his name in a different panel than the three others (which was made in a significant way).

The lady does protest too much. (Not you - Allie.) In fact, continuous refrain of 'they are separated and are an ocean away from each other' is what makes it so suspicious. Btw, the next Buffy arc name is 'Apart'.

Look, according to Allie, we will know the identity of the father pretty soon, so we'll see at this moment. But if Angel really was the father, someone would let him know it and the rest of the season probably would include him in the story at some levels (especially since they said that the identity of the father would be a part of where the story goes). Except that Angel has his own series with Faith now, his own journey and issues, and Buffy's story will stayed focus on things which have nothing to do with him.

Concerning the title "Apart (of me)", I don't believe it has a connection with this. It probably has something to do with what we see in the cover of 9#09 (two Buffy), or with the abortion maybe. I don't think it’s a reference to Angel since he's not even a part of the story. Same goes for "Daddy issues". The story is going in the direction of exploring some bonds (Faith/her father, Drusilla/Angel(us), the title has absolutely no reason to reflect an aspect which is not even adressed in the story itself.

And I simply don’t believe they have the intention to connect Buffy’s and Angel’s stories this season. The spacefrak is probably the less popular thing about season 8, and like Icarium said, the staff tends to try to forget this part of the story.

Anyway, I think we won't agree, so agree to disagree ? 😉 We'll get the answer very soon 🙂

 

[white avenger]

The more discussion that I read about this, the more logical it becomes that Spike actually is the father of Buffy's baby (which almost certainly means that Joss has manipulated thing into appearing that way so that we will be in total shock and denial when he reveals that it's actually Andrew) Oh, sure, it was fun to speculate on and joke about after initially reading the issue, but now, I'm having a hard time envisioning anyone else BUT Spike of being the one. Plus, if that actually is the case, there would be no more appropriate person to talk Buffy into keeping their baby, or, on the other hand, no more appropriate person to stand beside her when the pregnancy is terminated. In either case, there is no one else more qualified to support and protect her during her time of recovery, both physically and emotionally. And, as a big bonus, Spike has a vehicle that would make a perfect home and base of operations for Buffy to use in reorganizing and commanding what is left of her Slayer army, something that Is going to be very important if Simone and her bunch of rogue Slayers is ever going to be dealt with.

 

[cordangel]

Miss Kitty wrote:
"The spacefrak is probably the less popular thing about season 8, and like Icarium said, the staff tends to try to forget this part of the story."

As an Angel fan, I said that the lowest point in s8 was not the spacefrak (utterly ridiculous) but the characterization of Angel.

And Angel is the only one who has to carry the consequences of this ill- written story arc in his comics... speaking of unfair things...

Bottom line: why this mitical reunion, when Angel isn't even mention at all by Buffy in s9, like he was a leper and not her eternal love... And now she wants to "run away" with Spike!

Sorry for the rants, but nowadays I don't like Joss, DH writers AND Buffy, whose behaviour I consider unstable, immature and so on. Come on, girl, decide yourself! Or... or; maybe neither... nor. Please, not both! And stop with this "eternal love" so badly showed!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I want Spike to be the father.

That's all I have to say.

 

[white avenger]

Miss Kitty wrote:
"The spacefrak is probably the less popular thing about season 8,

Actually, I'm kinda glad that it happened, because it gives the Bangles exactly what the Spuffies had with "Smashed," only to an even more violent, degrading, and destructive degree. And all that Spike and Buffy did was almost destroy a house. Angel and Buffy, however, almost destroyed the entire universe.

 

[cordangel]

Actually, I'm kinda glad that it happened, because it gives the Bangles exactly what the Spuffies had with "Smashed," only to an even more t
violent, degrading, and destructive degree.


Degrading and violent, I don't see that scene, not really. Ridiculous, yes, degrading and violent, not at all.

I don't want to raise another eternal war ship, please remember I'm neither B/A nor B/S. I belong to another ship, grown and settled entirely on AtS. I do care about Angel though, and I'm full of rage because they, the writers, put Angel in s8 apparently only to destroy his character. He 'landed' in s8 exactly for what? To have space sex with Buffy (ridiculous, not violent)? To provide a shock moment to the audience while they discover who is the masked villain of s8? To have Buffy reaffirm her love for him ("You're the man I want to live with") and, second later, dreaming sex with Spike? To ruin their relationship again and him AGAIN? To make Buffy never ever mention him from #40 to now (at least)?

Moscow Watcher, be aware of your wish. Because if Spike is the father, the conception happened in a dark, drunken situation, in which Buffy was the weaker one. A vampire can't be completely drunk, at least not as a human being, even if that human is a slayer (Buffy doesn't tolerate alcohol, see "Beer Bad" and when she went with Spike in that demon bar, playing poker). So, if Spike is the father, it means he, at least partially, took advantage to her. This is degrading sex, IMO.

However, what I really wanted to point out (apart from Angel) is that the writers can't keep playing the ship card over and over. It only succeeds at the expense of the characters. All the characters.

 

[Kean]

Actually, I'm kinda glad that it happened, because it gives the Bangles exactly what the Spuffies had with "Smashed," only to an even more violent, degrading, and destructive degree. And all that Spike and Buffy did was almost destroy a house. Angel and Buffy, however, almost destroyed the entire universe.

Hardly. The Smashed scene was violent, degrading and destructive. No question. But that was because it was fueled by self-hatred and despair. The sex Buffy and Angel had in S8 was incomparably destructive, but is destructive in an oblivious, unintentional way. It wasn't about pain like Smashed was.

Do I like the fallout of the Space Frak? Absolutely not. Do I wish that things hadn't turned out the way they did? Very much so. Do I find the fact that Buffy and Angel had sex in the manner they did degrading? Never. And I've yet to find a Bangel who does feel that the Space Frak made them feel that way.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Moscow Watcher, be aware of your wish. Because if Spike is the father, the conception happened in a dark, drunken situation, in which Buffy was the weaker one. A vampire can't be completely drunk, at least not as a human being, even if that human is a slayer (Buffy doesn't tolerate alcohol, see "Beer Bad" and when she went with Spike in that demon bar, playing poker). So, if Spike is the father, it means he, at least partially, took advantage to her. This is degrading sex, IMO.

Buffy was shown openly flirting with him: "Any chance I can make you beg?" - and all her body language was very suggestive. So if they had sex, it definitely was her who initiated it. If it was Spike who she had sex with, it explains why neither of the partners took precautions - so it goes well with Joss' promise that fans will judge Buffy less harshly when they'll know the whole truth. Of course Spike-haters will see only negative stuff in everything he does - but I'll try to enjoy the story nevertheless. Although writers may introduce some twist that will really degrade Buffy and Spike to make Angel look better. We'll see.

 

[cordangel]

Moscow Watcher wrote:
Although writers may introduce some twist that will really degrade Buffy and Spike to make Angel look better. We'll see.



Don't be afraid of it. They'll never touch their golden boy, newly ascended saint for popular acclamation...after all only an angel can be named 'fallen'.

As for Buffy, she's so dear to his creator...she's not allowed to be really damaged.

Easy.

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------

I incorrectly stated that Moscow Watcher wrote " I want Spike to be the father", whereas it was Joan the Vampire Slayer and MW merely agree. I apologize with both.