Seeing red

[wiccianslayer]

me and my best friend we're watching season 6 a few days ago and she said something that really made me think. did buffy bring the attemped rape on herself? with the way she treated spike telling him no one minute then jumping him the next and all the things she did to him pushed him to the edge and you can see the regert, sorriness, guilt and a few more emotions in spike's eyes (yay go james masters) after he did it and he didn't intentanly go there for sex

what's your honest opions?

 

[Lou]

Well, in the NORMAL world, I would say there is never an excuse for rape.
HOWEVER, since she wasn't ACTUALLY raped and we have no proof that she WOULD have actually been raped, it could be up for discussion.
Especially since the "sex romps" we did get to see usually seemed to start with a good bit of violence anyway...and her protesting most of the time.
I feel like she DID bring it on herself. Or, more to the point, I think she blew it out of proportion.
Where you can't really ASK for rape, if you start a pattern of saying NO and beating the crap out of each other first....can you REALLY blame the guy if he can't tell the difference later? And to make it out like he came barging in there with lust and violence on his mind and was out to violate her, is more than a little out of whack.

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

You know, I see stuff like this and I just have to shake my head, because if it was anyone besides Spike - fictional or in real life - I don't think this question would ever even come up in today's world, where a man can be charged with sexual harassment for just looking at a woman when she doesn't wanna be...

 

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

one factor im thinking of, when you guys are saying buffy brought it on herself by saying no, beating him up, and then having sex with him anyway all the time, is HOW she said no. i mean, the other times, she was pretty much ANGRY, yelling at him, insulting him, and that whole bit. however, in the "rape" scene, she is on the floor begging him to stop, and practically crying, and he still tries to have sex with her anyway. correct me if im wrong, but when she gets out from under him the first time, she doesnt punch him in the face like she had in the past, but she scrambles for the door to get away. i think that is important and makes the distinction. spike was so crazed or dazed or full of desire or whatever you believe he was, that he was not taking notice of said distinction, which showed the fact that she truly wanted him to stop.

 

[Lou]

No, I can see that part. And, I do agree in part.
Although, there is the part where when he actually SEES her (because he wasn't exactly LOOKING at before) he does seem honestly shocked, confused and sorry. Like he had never intended anything of the sort.
I feel like had his intention REALLY been to RAPE her, he'd have been angry and jumped back on her. He wouldn't have looked shocked and confused.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have paid more attention to her actual words....for instance the "I'm hurt" would have been nice. But it is a nice lesson on why you shouldn't start casual sex with people by beating the crap out of them and saying how much you hate them. Because there is a chance, one day, they may not be listening to the stuff coming out of your mouth because they've heard all your protesting before.

Besides, there were PLENTY of breaks in the conversation where all she had to say is that she accepted his apology and maybe someday would forgive him and he'd have been out and she could have taken her bath.
Which brings us to the 2nd lesson....never smart to keep pounding a love-sick vampire over the head with how superior you are to him and how you could never love him because he's a worthless, souless beast.

I'm not saying this line of thinking ventures out of the realm of the Buffy-verse. I'm just thinking that she wasn't exactly a blameless party. She even knew he had a habit of cornering her to try and debate whether or not she belonged with him. Which she also would stand and discuss.

It's about as stupid as this.....
You wander down to the corner where there is a drug addict who needs money. Knowing full well that he's not the most stable and rational of human beings....in fact, you remind him all the time how unstable he is. And you wave wads of money around and go on and on about how rich and powerful you are. Junkie walks up and you scream, "DON'T ROB ME" and throw a wad of money at him.
You do this 30 or so times.
Then one day, you still scream to not rob you but don't throw the money at him. And he actually tries to rget the money...until it's made clear that you weren't going to throw the money at him and then he apologizes and leaves.
Now, sure the drug addict has issues and stealing money isn't right....but, really...who's the idiot? The person who strung him along in a weird pattern....or the junkie for not noticing immediately that THIS time was different?