Selfless

[Vampmogs2]

And the thing about Xander wanting to kill Angel in the beginnig and not killing Anya now isn´t much of a stretch. First of all he loves Anya which cloudes his judgement. But on the other hand, now he has seen that you can rescue people who has gone bad. Angel, Willow, Spike (?). So why not try to rescue Anya too?

I agree that it became far more complicated with Xander and Buffy later on. I've seen some fans accuse Buffy of being hypocritical because she couldn't kill Angelus straight away, but I disagree. She's simply grown. She saw what damage resulted in allowing Angelus to remain alive because of her feelings, she wasn't going to make that same mistake again. And she shouldn't, she was right, Anya chose to become a demon *twice* and had just murdered twelve people. She's the slayer, she would have been irresponsible to not go after Anya.

But I'm glad Xander finally got to feel a little of what Buffy was feeling when Angel lost his soul. Because it's something he'd never really dealt with well concerning Buffy, and something he hadn't had to experience until it happened to him.

And Xanders biggest problem with Angel wasn´t that he was a vampire (my opinion), he was simply jealous. Angel being a vampire just made it 1000 times worse and gave a "better" reason. And can you truly blame him för not liking vampires? Just found out they existed and knowing of Angelus past?

I agree that jealousy played a big part in it, but I do think being a vampire made his hatred a lot worse. I've never enjoyed Xander hating Angel because he's a vampire. At first, sure. They didn't know the full story and it's perfectly within a character's rights to hate vampires, the show proved a point of how stupid the people were in 'Lie to Me' for pretending vampires were something they were not. They're killers, they deserve the hate. But after the gang found out about Angel's soul I felt Xander's hatred was unwarranted. He even states I 'Passion' that he desveres a little something for not saying "I told you so" in regards to Angel, which always worried me a little. If he honestly can't differentiate between Angel and Angelus, there's a big problem there. He never really understood Angel's character.

 

[InsaneMystic]

I just think that she wasn't as evil as Angel and Spike because they were killing people to feed or only for fun.

I disagree with the "to feed" part. Killing for food isn't "evil" at all in my book, much as we understandably find it uncomfortable to think of humans being food for someone. A "sensible" vampire who'd only kill as many people as he needs to survive on their blood may be discomforting, but is just barely "morally grey" for me (grey only because a "champion of light" would certainly change diet to the leftover blood of pig & cattle who had already been killed for humans' food). Killing for vengeance (especially vengeance in the name of someone else) is much, much darker.

I wholeheartedly agree with the "for fun" part, though. A killcrazy vamp "playing with his food" and gorging himself on blood even though he's consumed more than he needs, is deeper in darkness than vengeance demons who can (though twistedly) rationalize what they're doying as a form of "serving justice".

 

[Atren]

Concerning comparing Angel and Anya -- one could be reasoned while other not really. Also while both of them inflicted pain, only one of them did it for pain itself for amusement. And i do not considering feeding as part of amusement. Most of all -- one was trying to destroy the world while other helped to save it!

That said, Anya was no angel (as in saint). She had her flaws and weaknesses. She returned to vengeance and tried to pretty much wipe Xander off the world which in itself is understandable (but still clearly wrong). But i think the confrontation with her, Xander, Spike and Buffy ended her blind rage at end of "Entropy". Still events slowly were building up for final conflict ("Beneath you" (hope i remember the name correct) being a very small version of it). Over the episodes leading to this it was clear that her heart was not in it anymore and she knew it. Instead of quitting she tried to put up a facade showing she has no regrets or doubts.

Overall definetly Buffy was handling it wrong imo. The confrontation was inevitable, but it did not have to be swords first type. Especially as Anya recently, and with Halfreck in last season, had already shown earlier that wishes can be undoed (i hope thats a real word and i am not butchering english 😛).

Concerning Anya and Buffy fight i do not think either of them really wanted to kill each other. Anya definetly seemed to want to die to me and Buffy seemed to be rather down as well. My only shame about the actual fight is that Anya was no longer capable of teleporting, darn Buffy for interfering Anya vs Spike earlier.

About the result, i was happy that Anya survived it. She also dropped the facade and took actions which she actually believed instead of trying to force herself to believe in other. Killing of Halfreck was genius move by D'hoffryn i have to admit, one i did not see coming until she was summoned. Altough most of the effect was diluted by what happens in next episode, for me at least.

 

[scarybunny97]

Interesting discussion. Well, if the only way to un-do what Anya did was to pay for the exchange with the SOUL of a vengence demon, then Anya is fundamentally different from Angelus right there. Anyanka had some kind of internal compass to guide her with the whole vengence thing. Earlier in S7 we saw her buddy Halfrek ragging on her for dishing out "soft-serve" vengence in fact. She makes choices about who to punish and how to punish them. And it seems that when she doesn't have the stomach for it, she passes on the whole blood and gore of it.

I think that before Anyanka became Anya in S3 of Buffy, she really felt like she was serving a good cause--avenging wronged women. She took pride in a job well done, not delight in carnage. Again, in the flashback to 1907(?) Russia, it was Halfrek who wanted to stroll the streets and revel in the carnage . . . while Anyanka wanted to sit back and be satisfied with the quality of her work. It's morbid, but she's like Demonic FedEx--reliable delivery of what you ordered! I think in her second incarnation as a demon, she knows her heart isn't in it anymore, but she doesn't want to know it. When she finally went full-on with the vengence and got those frat boys slaughtered, it was her desperate (and failed) attempt to prove to herself that she was the same Anyanka, that her time as a human had not mattered or changed her. What Anya did to those boys felt wrong to her because she had become Anya. In the end of Selfless, she was ready to give up her own soul to take back her mistake. So while it was Buffy's job to go after any demon that harms/kills humans . . . Anya saved herself when she offered up her soul. Something that Angelus would never have done.

 

[Violette]

Definitely one of my favourite season 7 episodes. I liked how they finally dedicated at least one episode on Anya. Since she first appeared on the show in season 3, she always seemed to just be one of the sidekicks, I'm glad that parts of season 7 finally focussed and shone the lights on her.

My favourite part in the episode was the argument between Buffy and Xander in Buffy's living room. Buffy's realization that she had to kill Anya resurrected a similar choice that she had to make in "Becoming Pt 2". Buffy's mention of killing Angel during that argument with Xander was a moving moment.. and I also liked the way the end of the episode was played out. It showed that Xander really did still love Anya, although they knew that they still had to part ways.

 

[hyperballadbrad]

This is one of my all time fave episodes. Anya is just heavenly but this ep, takes her to a new level! brilliant

The musical reprise gives me goosebumps!