Seriously, A Rocket Launcher?

[Kean]

We have had alot of discussions of late about the mounting violence that seems to be sweeping the world. I am not an easy person to shock, I'll pretty much take anything in my stride but today somebody told me something that genuinely made my draw drop.

A little back story might help. For the past 6-8 years the city I live in has been literally torn apart by gang violence. Everyday of the week someone else was killed in a drive-by or some other type of assasination. On Saturday a man was shot in front of my local shop. He died, the next day a 19 year old young fella was murdered in retaliation.

Before the violence had been happening away from me. I could disassociate myself with it but now it is literally on my front step and it feels like the rules have changed or something. I suddenly don't feel safe walking the streets I grew up on.

That isn't what shocked me though, it saddens me but doesn't shock me.

What shocked me was what a man told me as I waited for the bus this morning. Generally when all this shoting starts up the Garda (police) helicopter takes to the air to patrol the city. Recently it hadn't been doing that, the reason I found out was that the gang members shot it out of the sky...with a rocket launcher!!! Where in the name of God did they get a rocket launcher! It just boggles my mind! and what is even more disturbing is that the Garda are an unarmed police force! Where the hell does that leave us?

This thread doesn't really have any pont other than to voice my horror...feel free to ignore the crazy Irish lady.

 

[Blondie Bear]

*writes "I Will Not Begin a Gun Debate on the Buffy Boards" on an imaginary chalkboard 50 times*

 

[Lou]

Man, it always makes me SO SAD when Buffy episodes spark imitation by people who can't tell fantasy from reality!

Just kidding.
That is INSANE! Apparently, effective, but insane! Even if we looked at it from the gang's perspective instead of normal citizens. It's hard enough to keep KNIVES AND GUNS out of people's hands that we don't want to use them. Like kids, younger brothers or sisters, rival gangs.....
How do you lock up and/or hide a ROCKET LAUCHER? That's not the kind of thing you want to leave on the couch! And would make you a CLEAR target for rival gangs when word gets out that you have one.

It's just a lifestyle that I don't understand any way I try. And my brain will rationalize almost anything. I understand it when I see it on TV and kids decide to join. That's self preservation. What I DO NOT understand is what all the violence is about. Seems like, for the most part, things could be worked out smoothly. Everyone has their place. Want to sell drugs and run guns? Peachy, here's your area.
It's the part where they seem to constantly be fighting and starting wars over this or that...it's OPPOSITE of self-preservation, it's stepping into the line of fire...it's CREATING the line of fire and then jumping into it. That's against normal human instinct.

 

[JCC]

Was the shooter petite and blonde and descrying a dislike for blue people with horns?

 

[Kean]

Man, it always makes me SO SAD when Buffy episodes spark imitation by people who can't tell fantasy from reality!

Just kidding.
That is INSANE! Apparently, effective, but insane! Even if we looked at it from the gang's perspective instead of normal citizens. It's hard enough to keep KNIVES AND GUNS out of people's hands that we don't want to use them. Like kids, younger brothers or sisters, rival gangs.....
How do you lock up and/or hide a ROCKET LAUCHER? That's not the kind of thing you want to leave on the couch! And would make you a CLEAR target for rival gangs when word gets out that you have one.

It's just a lifestyle that I don't understand any way I try. And my brain will rationalize almost anything. I understand it when I see it on TV and kids decide to join. That's self preservation. What I DO NOT understand is what all the violence is about. Seems like, for the most part, things could be worked out smoothly. Everyone has their place. Want to sell drugs and run guns? Peachy, here's your area.
It's the part where they seem to constantly be fighting and starting wars over this or that...it's OPPOSITE of self-preservation, it's stepping into the line of fire...it's CREATING the line of fire and then jumping into it. That's against normal human instinct.

Possibly the most outrageous thing about this whole situation is that it essentially started because the daughters of the two rival families got into a fight in school. I mean it is absolutely nuts! Literally hundreds of people have been killed because of a chick fight!

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Holy Crap, more importantly how isn't this is the first im hearing of it! We're not exactly a big country and this would be kinda a big event!

 

[Kean]

Holy Crap, more importantly how isn't this is the first im hearing of it! We're not exactly a big country and this would be kinda a big event!

Because the Gards are trying to keep it hush hush. Don't want to create hysteria..good luck with that lads. The fella that told me, he knows a few of the Gards and they told him. The helicopter managed to land safely enough but there was still a fair bit of damage to it.

 

[white avenger]

In answer to your initial question, the rocket launcher was quite likely old Soviet military, stolen, or more likely bought from the senior officers left in charge of the old arsenals after the Soviet Union dissolved. Literally tons of munitions, everything from handguns and bayonets to tanks, armored personnel carriers, even aircraft and missiles with (hopefully) non-nuclear warheads. The international arms trade is big business, and just like any other industry, the product filters down from supplier to large scale dealer, right down to the back alley gun dealers selling to kids after school. Whoever has the money and the inclination gets the merchandise. (See "The Lord of War," with Nicholas Cage sometime.)

As to "Why a rocket launcher," it's the old deal about arms escalation, but on a smaller scale. My gang has rocks and broken bottles, so your gang gets knives. You have knives, so we get handguns. We have handguns, so you get shotguns. You have shotguns, so we get assault rifles...It just keeps growing. The rocket launcher is just another step up the ladder. The criminals and terrorists cause all the trouble, the honest citizens get caught in the middle.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Because the Gards are trying to keep it hush hush. Don't want to create hysteria..good luck with that lads. The fella that told me, he knows a few of the Gards and they told him. The helicopter managed to land safely enough but there was still a fair bit of damage to it.

Man thats insane! Gotta say Im not really a fan of the gards, about 90% of the ones I met are such ass's, they're so rude and immediately presume you've done something wrong.

 

[palabravampiress]

Wow. A rocket launcher. I don't know what to say to that.

I don't get gang violence, either. Then again, it's just small-scale warfare, and I don't understand war, either. I agree that it runs contrary to the self-preservation instinct.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

I agree the streets can be a dangerous place at times. I lived in Glasgow for a while. It was about the time that shotguns were replaced with swordsticks.

As for gang related battles, they've been happening for a long time. And the use of weapons have long been a fact of life. A rocket launcher, not a normal thing to use as they are hard to hide.
As to where it would have come from, really it doesn't matter. But from the Soviet's? how about looking a bit closer to where it was used, like an IRA weapons store or some-ones reminder of the bad times.
Weapons like that were used long before Buffy ever used one, so please don't think it's the shows fault in anyway shape or form.

 

[Lou]

Sorry, SO off color for such a serious thread, but I just had to LOL at the "Soviet's" comment!

I got it, I did. The first time I read it.
The second time, while scrolling down to the last post it didn't "click". I was just picturing a bunch of guys in red uniforms bustling around in an "Initiative" type setting saying (with thick Russian accents, but still in English, because my imagination doesn't speak Russian), "Sir, we got orders to ship these 3 rocket launchers to random street gangs in Ireland" (Other guy) "Do, you have the paperwork?" (Hands pile of papers) "Good, everything looks in order here." (Slams top down on wooden crate)

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

What rubbish.

The world has ALWAYS been a violent place, just because it is creeping 'pon your doorstep doesn't mean it is any more or less violent.

Also, do you have a link to some kind of news feature about this rocket launcher?
Don't give me this crapola that its being kept 'hush hush' by some Men in Black(or indeed Blue), something like a Copter being shot down with a Rocket Launcher is BIG NEWS. They wouldn't be ABLE to keep taht quiet.

Think about it, if the American Gov't can't stop the leaking of documents that directly affect its national security, some local gov't isn't going to stop this.

Show me the links to the internet 'chatter' at least.

 

[Hello Cutie]

Everything and everywhere is violent these days- it's always been like it, but recently it's become alot more publicised, and that's what makes it seem like it's getting worse- it really isn't, it's been this bad since forever.

Speaking of violence on your doorstep though, my dad's secretary is from the town over from ours, and she came back from holiday to find her garden cordoned off by the police yesterday. All her white paving stones were red, and she found out her neighbour had stabbed someone to death in her front garden, packed the guy into the boot of the car, and drove off. So that literally is doorstep violence!

 

[RogueHunter]

What we have here is a basic example of human nature.
Some humans are still very much attached to the savage side of their nature and most people are in denial of the savage side of human nature.
I teach martial arts and one of the first things I express to students is the fact that they don't think like criminals. I ask them, outside of revenge for a loved one being assaulted, what would make them want to go and punch someone in the face? What would make them enjoy throwing someone to the ground and actually ENJOY kicking them? Most people cannot conceive of themselves behaving in such a manner. Whenever we hear of atrocities committed the first reaction is a stunned disbelief, then an attempt to rationalize it. We all have a natural tendency to try and translate things into that which is familiar to us, and what is most familiar to us is the way we think and act. People have a natural tendency to believe that everyone is basically the same and its more comfortable to believe that some traumatic event forced criminals to commit their crimes, because the thought that there are some among us that have no problem with beating, abusing, torturing another living thing and they look just like us. They don't have blue skin and horns.
We haven't evolved to a point where we are beyond our base instincts and emotions, worse we have developed an attitude that we have moved beyond them. There really is a monster in the closet, and we close our eyes because if we can't see it, its really not there. Like it or not, you have to confront the monster, and when its evil, call it evil. Don't call it misunderstood, or less fortunate, call it evil when it does evil. There is also far too much compassion for the criminal in proportion to the victim. I teach several police officers and corrections officers. If people would listen to the stories these men tell of behavior of criminals it would serve as a wake up call. Its very easy to say that if this guy had only been hugged more often he wouldn't be bad. That argument will dissolve the second you make eye contact with someone who not only intends on bashing your skull in, but is going to enjoy it as well.
The rocket launcher is just the biggest stick they can find. This is evidence to anyone who thinks people would never use nuclear weapons against people. there is no horror humanity will not visit upon itself. We also keep moving farther and farther from value systems that teach what is right and wrong. Instead we have embraced a feel good mentality instead of a do good mentality. Too much getting in touch with feelings and not enough looking ahead at effects. Too much thinking that everyone's value system is as valid as their own and that no one has the right to judge someone else.
We have outlawed social stigma, eliminating the idea that there are ramifications for bad behavior. There used to be a sense of shame if you did something bad. If you slept around, if you stole, if you vandalized you were shunned, and now you're embraced as cool. We have created prisons that become a haven instead of something they avoid. Put them on a chain gang and see how they avoid going back then.
The problem isn't guns or weapons. Weapons will always exist, just as people willing to use them will always exist. We each have a choice to stand up to them or be dominated by them.
We need to reverse this attitude that intolerance and discrimination is wrong. I am intolerant of criminals and people that think they have a right to harm others. I will not associate with blatantly immoral people, therefore discriminating myself from them. Its OK to embrace your value system that says its wrong to kill, to steal, to lie, to terrorize, to behave like a savage. The good people of the world need to stand up and point out evil as evil instead of just saying its a different culture, or finding some excuse for it.

 

[Blondie Bear]

With RogueHunter's permission, I borrowed his post and added it to my own little rant on my blog. Link's at the top of my sig if anyone's interested (plug, plug).

 

[TheHeartist]

At first I thought this was gonna be about Buffy blasting the Judge, but whoa, gangs with rocket launchers...what is the world coming to...

 

[RogueHunter]

No problem at all, Blondie Bear, I'm flattered.

StuckinTraffic, it is the basic idea, although I would refer to it as brain vs mind. Your brain being the biological component and the mind being the source of wisdom that can temper that biological desire. The brain wants chocolate, the mind says you'll get fat. The problem is that the mind needs to be self aware. there needs to be a value system that reinforces that wisdom or else the brain only knows what it knows. Like trying to rationalize with a child. A child knows two things, comfort and discomfort. The brain, removed from any kind of societal awareness, will be narcissistic, knowing only what makes it feel better. But again people like to think of themselves as average, "everyone has the same sensibilities as me", which is why greedy people expect others to be greedy, liars expect others to lie, and compassionate people expect others to be compassionate.
To the criminal, who is inherently narcissistic, sees an ipod laying there and has no thought as to why they shouldn't take it.
I will take the violence thing one step further. Most of the violence is perpetrated by young males, although females are trying to catch up. This is directly related to the breakdown of family units and the absence of fathers. Part of the father's role is to instill a sense of limitation on their male children. A male produces about 100 times the amount of testosterone of a female, so there isn't much fear of a large adolescent male of his smaller weaker mother. This happens throughout nature. There was an African game preserve where the adolescent male elephants were attacking, killing and basically bullying the rhinos. The faculty were at a loss as to how to stop it until someone thought to bring in some adult bulls. The adult males immediately smacked down the adolescents and actually started defending the rhinos.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

What rubbish.

The world has ALWAYS been a violent place, just because it is creeping 'pon your doorstep doesn't mean it is any more or less violent.

Also, do you have a link to some kind of news feature about this rocket launcher?
Don't give me this crapola that its being kept 'hush hush' by some Men in Black(or indeed Blue), something like a Copter being shot down with a Rocket Launcher is BIG NEWS. They wouldn't be ABLE to keep taht quiet.

Think about it, if the American Gov't can't stop the leaking of documents that directly affect its national security, some local gov't isn't going to stop this.

Show me the links to the internet 'chatter' at least.

OK, just taken the liberty of searching using both Google and Yahoo and found nothing.

Gotta say, unless you can find a link to something, I think the guy was pulling your leg.

Nevermind - great thread otherwise.

 

[Kean]

OK, just taken the liberty of searching using both Google and Yahoo and found nothing.

Gotta say, unless you can find a link to something, I think the guy was pulling your leg.

Nevermind - great thread otherwise.

He could have been but to be honest the way things have been going it is very likely they were using a rocket launcher.

There is a lot of stuff that happens here that is never reported but known around the city. Like the fella that was killed outside the shop. He was a local gangster, had been in and out of jail all his life. During one sentence his mother would go to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and get a weekend pass for him so he could get out. The Gards were finding his prints all over the city for robberies but couldn't figure out how because according to the system he was in jail.

You won't find a report on that either, doesn't make it any less true though.