Sexist?

[TarnishedBeauty]

Now I'm not saying that I believe this...but...I've heard that Mr.GoldenPen is a bit of a sexist. I can definatly see how this could be a conclusion that people could come to. I mean come on...the stuff that was done with Cordy...and how Charisma was just phased out when she got pregnant. And then the way he went with Fred (first off the masucline name) and then having her taken over by a GOD...not a goddess. I never heard them call Illyria that.

 

[Xander]

Illyria is ungendered.

Angel (the show) has always been about what it is to be a male, living up or breaking down masculine ideology while Buffy has been about the same for females. So hence few girls in Angel. However I'm sure Charisma would of asked for less time after she got pregnant, working and have a baby can't be easy, and the work schedule for Angel must be awkward because of the early morns etc.

Fred is short for Winifred, rather then using the usal "Winnie", its like Xander uses the later half of his name, rather then the usual Alex.

 

[TarnishedBeauty]

Yes but Charisma aparently refused to come back after her pregnancy because of what they did with her character. I know that her name is just a nick name but that dosen't change the fact that they do call her Fred...also..God is not ungendered...God is masculine. I'm not saying that I belive that he is a sexist...I'm just offering it up for debate. I personaly think that that has been misconstrued into something it is not...I see it your way. However it is an intersting debate and I wanted to allow all opinons on this subject...and I must say...you make a good arguement on the non-sexist side. 🙂 lol

 

[ChasingCharisma]

Illyria is ungendered.

Angel (the show) has always been about what it is to be a male, living up or breaking down masculine ideology while Buffy has been about the same for females. So hence few girls in Angel.

I guess that explains why that, of the two, Angel was always my favorite. However, I never felt that there was any real sexism on either show . . . Xander was always a fella I could identify with, being more real than some of the brawny Ken dolls that Buffy hooked up with . . . And then I liked the transformation of Cordy in Angel. She, at least in my feeling (granted, I'm a guy) just went from being pure eye candy to being a strong female, even becoming a higher being . . . Narratively, you don't get more female empowerment than that, I'ma thinkin'. :chillpill

 

[stormwolfe]

The end of buffy was all about women power, geez they even bought in a bad guy who was verbally mysoginist. It only goes to be fair that Angel is aobut the guys and what they deal with. I heard that Charisma asked to be phased out because of baby and family, don't know if it's true but thats what i heard, and as for fred. Her name may have been a male name but i don't think i could think of a more girly character in either show...except maybe andrew (didn't like him though). Illyria is one of the better characters ever to exist in the buffyverse, and while they call it a god (masculine) they never say 'he' or 'his' when refering to it. The attempt to keep in ungendered I think anyway.

 

[SlayerFaith89]

Charisma had a kid.........and most actresses take off after they have a child in a show, they kill them off, they have them in alot less seans, or like they did in angel and they put Cordy in acoma....Charisma's pregancy fell in the season were they coulent have her be there for the next season.......Holly Mare Combs, her's fell percetly to past the season fanile but Charisma's didn't.....it fell at about the 3/4 of the season.....and Fred was only a nick name..... Winifred was her real name....it's not sexist at all.....my name is mackenzi and alot of people call me mack or mackie...not many call me kenzi.......and Illyria was a god.......but so was Glory, and she was a female......in more of a occult sence both Illyria and Glory were more of gods because there powers themselve were less feminit and more masculant......God in the true occult sence dosent refe to MAN nor dose Goddess refer to a woman, God is a masulant sence and Goddess is more femint

that's my 2 cents

 

[FahrbotDrusilla]

God is not ungendered...God is masculine.

No I am pretty sure it is ungendered.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I guess that explains why that, of the two, Angel was always my favorite. However, I never felt that there was any real sexism on either show .


I've always felt an air of sexism in ANGEL - especially in how the male characters harbor a paternalistic air toward the female characters.

 

[Cookie Dough]

Maybe he is; I don't know the guy, but he said he wanted to make Buffy because he knew his mom was strong and he wanted to do a show that represented a girl, who you'd first expect wasn't able to take care of herself, as the hero. He also said he's appalled at how few men think of women as people.

and how were Glory and Illyria's powers masculine, exactly?

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

Illyria is a genderless being, but it is referred to as a God which is the masculine form of the word. She is devoid of any of the qualities that are inherent in the typical woman as hollywood would cast it. She shows no emotion and she only resembles Fred because it was the shell she took over. Had she taken over the shell of a man, she would have resembled a human male.

Glory acted much more feminine in her godly state, but she too is referred to as a god, rather than a goddess. She had been put into the body of Ben and from the clues we've seen had been mostly in the form of Ben until he reached a certain age of maturity.

 

[Spike My Darlin]

Sexism was definately a part of ATS at times, mainly in Wolfram & Hart.

I thank y'all for finally making me realized while I enjoyed ATS emminsely it just wasn't as good as BTVS.