Sexual Orientation

[Edmund Blackadder]

I didn't mean that someone needs to be physically beautiful for me to fall in love with them (though I find beauty in most people anyway. The human form is a beautiful thing), merely that I can feel attracted to someone physically no matter their gender, race, creed et cetera. I in no way meant that physical beauty is required for me to fall in love with someone, and if that's how it came across, then I apologise. Obviously, aesthetics help in matters of love. Nobody can say that they completely look past what people look like, because that's a bare-faced lie. But it's certainly not a rule.

Labels aren't there for the weak to feel part of a group. In my perfect world, there wouldn't be labels. Unfortunately, my perfect world is not your perfect world and it's not the perfect world of Joe Hawkins down the street. Pansexual is hardly a label at all, it's the way of saying 'liberal'. I don't care about any extenuating circumstance when it comes to people. If I love you, I love you. If I'm sexually attracted to you, I'm sexually attracted to you.

But yeah - I'm sorry if it came across that someone needs to be physically beautiful for me to love them, that's not the case.

See misuderstandings are cleared up by communication.

However, the looks of a person, I concede, form part, usually a large part, of the initial attraction, however I have grown to be physically attracted to someone I wasn't when I have gotten to know them because I have fallen for the personality.

 

[RogueHunter]

Labels are just descriptions, its what's done with them that makes a difference. If you're right handed, you're right handed, left handed is left handed and ambidextrous.
Caution must be taken when saying 'only love matters' or you justify people like the Deaves from Australia. Even situations where and 18 year old and a 38 year old are in love puts the younger person at serious risk. A ten or twenty year difference loses its weight as both parties become older for example a 38 yr old/ 58 yr old.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I'm very securely straight, though I'll admit in the past I've been curious about the whole lesbian thing. What it finally came to, though, was that I didn't want to be in a relationship with a woman; I was just curious about the sexual part. Since that's not enough for me to pursue anything, I settled quite happily into my straightness.

 

[Starlet]

I'm personally straight but I'm open-minded and don't have anything against people of different orientations.
If two people love each other it's beautiful ( no matter if they're man&woman, woman&woman or man&man)
I don't know how some people can consider love as something bad...

 

[InsaneMystic]

Why do you get angry if people call you a straight male?

If you find the idea of sexual intercourse with a fellow chap and you're very secure with your love of the ladies then surely its not a completely inaccurate 'label' if you are to be labelled.

Unless of course your gender issues make you feel like a woman inside,

Are you a Transvestite, pre/post op Transexual/gender?

If not then I really don't understand why you get angry at being referred to as being a straight male.

Well, it's the idea of sexual intercourse involving male genitals that makes me freak out, and that definitely includes those I, quite unfortunately IMO, was born with.

You're right, that's exactly what I meant with gender issues, and that's the part where I'm unsure if there's any label for me that really fits. A point could be made - and has been made, both by myself and others - both for and against calling me transvestite (though definitely not for fetish reasons, mind you) or transsexual, and I've got a long history of weighing the pros and cons of OP in my mind (currently, I don't think that's the right road for me)... I just don't see any other point than the biologistic "your chromosomes are XY and you've got that thing between your legs" to be made in calling me a man, because that's really not how I feel.

So, the cause of my anger at being called "straight male" is not the "you're into girls" label, I wholeheartedly agree to that... It's being called male (I always feel uncomfortable having to check that box in questionnaires; wherever it's "official", I check the one that agrees with my passport/ID card, otherwise I most often just leave it blank, as I did here on the board's profile...).
And, as I said, the thought of straight sex is really discomforting to me (please, no offense implied to you straight guys & gals out there, it's just nothing I personally could ever stomach be doing).

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

OK then Insanemystic, I guess what you are is the same as the rest of us - a human being🙂

 

[Lou]

BotD,
You're not "getting" it. It's not that your wrong, exactly, just not entirely correct and the option you're not seeing isn't black and white.
First of, just to refresh your memory, we're talking about kids who are currently 5 and 8 and were younger at the time. So, it's not like I was going to sit down and discuss with them the ins and outs of heterosexuals vs. homosexuals. I didn't try to HIDE anything, necessarily, I just tried to keep things as "G" rated as them seeing Mommy and Daddy together or Grandma and Grandpa together.
They could SEE our friends John and Phil were not the same as say their Uncle and his roommate. There was something there that they saw was different.
We could say, "They love each other" and in their heads they could rationalize that my brother loves his roommate too (in a different way), but they just KNEW something was "off". They asked if they were going to get married once. What do I say to that? "Um...no, let me explain how this country is convinced our friends are evil and don't deserve to file a joint tax return....." It's more about how a child's mind works. They grow up thinking their life is like everyone else's. You grow up, fall in love, get married and have babies. Well, those last two, our friends can't really do.
As a mother, even when they didn't say it, I could see that it bugged them. Not really the actual relationship, more that they couldn't "get it". My sister tried to explain it to HER 5 year old before she watched Buffy and stupidly threw in that the President and the Bible were against it. What is a 5 year old supposed to think? She wasn't trying to be biased, just give all the information. But, to a kid, you throw in the president and God and WHA-LA...it must be wrong. Until, SHE watched Buffy and then suddenly quit debating with my kids about how wrong it was.

We're open minded, sure, so you're right that they probably had some predisposition to being that way. But, you also should realize that at least in THIS country, all shows and toys are geared toward the heterosexual family. You don't turn on the Disney Channel and see families dealing with having "two Mommies". All their friends have a Mommy and a Daddy. All their shows have a Mommy and a Daddy. In a child's mind, "This is how the world works". It's no more weird than having someone say, "There is no Santa Claus" or "Not everyone owns a TV" in their heads. They can't conceive of the notion and it makes no sense.

You said

I do not for one second believe that Willow and Tara made anyone 'tolerant' of Gay and Lesbian, it may have made people understand it a bit more HOWEVER, if you were anti-gay before it, you still would be.

No, my kids weren't "anti-gay" exactly. But, you don't have to far over into the side of Anti-Gay to be more understanding and tolerant. The story and how well it was executed, with no 3 episodes of dwelling on the politics of it or how one friend "couldn't accept it", and it DID open their eyes to understanding. In fact, it put my daughter right smack into the camp of, love is just there and it doesn't matter who it is. And, there IS no saying that over time, they WOULDN'T have become anti-gay. I don't think any kid is born anti-gay, it comes from what they learn growing up. Willow and Tara helped them get it because of how it was executed.

You're the one who said "anyone". They count as anyone. Maybe not the ones you MEANT, but they do count.

 

[apocalypse]

Do people really care about anti-gay comments anymore? I have a friend who's gay, and he throws around the word faggot constantly. He also doesn't care if you call him faggot, he'll just be like "yeah." None of the other gay people I know really care about it, either.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Actually, Dlou, I am getting the impression that you are the one that 'doesn't get it'.

You're not "getting" it. It's not that your wrong, exactly, just not entirely correct and the option you're not seeing isn't black and white.
First of, just to refresh your memory, we're talking about kids who are currently 5 and 8 and were younger at the time. So, it's not like I was going to sit down and discuss with them the ins and outs of heterosexuals vs. homosexuals. I didn't try to HIDE anything, necessarily, I just tried to keep things as "G" rated as them seeing Mommy and Daddy together or Grandma and Grandpa together.
They could SEE our friends John and Phil were not the same as say their Uncle and his roommate. There was something there that they saw was different.

I am far from arguing that these children didn't understand the relationship and I am not suggesting that you should have told them anything more.
However, what I am saying is that watching the Buffy relationship would not have opened their mind if there was no ability to do so. They must have been open to possibilities other than the 'norm'.

Not really the actual relationship, more that they couldn't "get it". My sister tried to explain it to HER 5 year old before she watched Buffy and stupidly threw in that the President and the Bible were against it. What is a 5 year old supposed to think? She wasn't trying to be biased, just give all the information. But, to a kid, you throw in the president and God and WHA-LA...it must be wrong. Until, SHE watched Buffy and then suddenly quit debating with my kids about how wrong it was.

Again, seems to me you're placing your own thoughts into that of the child.

They didn't understand something, that is down to being educated properly.
Issue here is they are told these two beings that they must adhere to are against it, so they are conflicted because they are informed, quite frankly, incorrectly.

If the information was given to them on their level without the needless addition of God and The Devi..I mean Bush(note I expect Karma for this!!!!), then they would have understood it.
Do you agree with that statement?

If so, they had the open mindedness to appreciate it already, it was the fact that they were given extra information that was unnecessary, even detrimental to the point.

You have said nothing to prove that the children in this case were less open minded, just given the wrong information with which to understand, but the moment they were confronted with a better explanation, they understood.

I have not said that Tara/Willow wasn't able to educate, I am saying that it doesn't affect the openness of someones mind.

Edit:

Do people really care about anti-gay comments anymore? I have a friend who's gay, and he throws around the word faggot constantly. He also doesn't care if you call him faggot, he'll just be like "yeah." None of the other gay people I know really care about it, either.

Yes of course they do.

What a stupid remark.

Are you a white person? Go up to some black chap and call him the N word.

Tell me what the response is.

It doesn't matter that your Gay friend doesn't mind, there are plenty of people that do.

 

[Evilyn]

Just another thing I'd like to add to Dlou's post, is well, I see she is from Tennessee. She pointed out how things were geared toward heterosexual families here in the US, and very much so here in the great state of Tennessee. This state, and other surrounding southern states are very, VERY, conservative and therefore, open-mindedness is not everywhere. We are smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt and things of this issue are highly preached against. So I can see where a child could easily pick up from friends at school or other mommies/daddies from playgroup that the idea of being gay is wrong. I can also see where something like two kind characters from a TV show, like Tara and Willow could open their eyes to a different type of love, not just that between mommies and daddies. I mean, the only other examples of real lesbian or gay relationship shows are The L Word, Queer as Folk and Will and Grace and you can't exactly let children of a young age watch those shows. I do think that a child has an open mind from the start, but when they are put in situations where they are told something is wrong, then it will take something else to show them that it's actually ok. Children don't have the ability to differentiate between fact an opinion until they are older, so I do think that something like Tara and Willow's relationship on TV would help them to establish their own opinions as they get older.

 

[apocalypse]

If the information was given to them on their level without the needless addition of God and The Devi..I mean Bush

How rebellious and badass of you.

Yes of course they do.

What a stupid remark.

Are you a white person? Go up to some black chap and call him the N word.

Tell me what the response is.

It doesn't matter that your Gay friend doesn't mind, there are plenty of people that do.

No, it's not just my friend who doesn't care, it's all of the gay people I know.
They actually find it funny when people try to insult them or others with slurs about homosexuality.
Most people have probably figured out by now, that words only have power if you let them.

Also, to answer your question, depending on where I referred to the black person as the n-word, I'd probably get hit. Although, I've known people who've done it at school, and have had nothing happen to them.
However, that doesn't really have anything to do with my comment, since I'm talking about anti-gay comments, and not racial slurs.

 

[Lou]

Again, seems to me you're placing your own thoughts into that of the child.

Nope, heard my niece debating it and one of the big points was that if God and the president thought it was wrong, then it's "against the law" AND "a sin". Which, as Evilyn pointed out, here in the Bible belt...is just about true.

Kids don't form open minded opinions. You tell your kid something, that's just a fact. For instance, I put Once More With Feeling on a CD for them. Before I gave it to them, I told them I would only put "Walk Through The Fire" on there for them if they PROMISED to never say, "Bitch" when Spike does. That they can say WITCH, but not bitch because it was a "bad word" and they'd get in trouble for repeating it. They asked why Spike says it, I said, "He's a vampire he does lots of naughty things".
Months later, we go to drop off a gaggle of paintings for a Chow show in Atlanta. We're showing them the paintings and one of the women says, "Let's use that one for Best Bitch". My son's eyes get as big as saucers. The woman starts apologizing and explaining what bitch means in a dog show and my son pulls be down next to him and says, "Is SHE a vampire?"

And HE even knows it's a SHOW and not real. And yet, somehow took what I had said months before and put two and two together.

All children have the ability for an open mind, that is right. BUT, they are prone to believing what they know. They KNOW Mommy and Daddy. They see that, it's common. There aren't many avenues to EXPLAIN anything else. Like Evilyn said, they aren't going to be watching Queer as Folk. And it's not like we're surrounded by a huge gay community.
And without Willow and Tara, it's HIGHLY LIKELY they wouldn't have been exposed to anything of the sort until high school or college.

I could have maybe explained it. But, children know what they see. Apart from me happening upon a Willow in my daily life, practically moving her in and letting the children watch her fall in love with a Tara, there is really no way to for ME to educate them. It was just Halloween when I had to explain how my son can't marry his cousin because she's a family member and they said, "You married Daddy, HE'S a family member!"

You VASTLY misunderstand the mind of a small child. Yes, they are open minded, otherwise, Santa wouldn't exist. On the other hand, they SEE Santa at the store and toys appear on Christmas morning. I was totally perplexed until 3rd or 4th grade about my friend who was Jewish and convinced that because Santa didn't come to them, then Jewish people must be bad. True? No. But, outside of my understanding? Yes. Luckily, in THAT situation, eventually I found out about Santa which made my thought process null and void. Otherwise, I may have become a Nazi, I suppose.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

How rebellious and badass of you

I know, what can I say🙂

I like being different.

Note, I would be considered a Republican in the States, but Bush is too far even for me.

No, it's not just my friend who doesn't care, it's all of the gay people I know.
They actually find it funny when people try to insult them or others with slurs about homosexuality.
Most people have probably figured out by now, that words only have power if you let them.

Also, to answer your question, depending on where I referred to the black person as the n-word, I'd probably get hit. Although, I've known people who've done it at school, and have had nothing happen to them.
However, that doesn't really have anything to do with my comment, since I'm talking about anti-gay comments, and not racial slurs.

And you know how many Gay people exactly?

It has EVERYTHING to do with your comment as both are born from a negative attack on a minority and prejudice.

If you can't see the connection you are very naive.

The problem isn't that words only have power if you let them have it, it is that they are meant to be a form of attack. So what if your friends don't find it offensive if some guy they don't know comes to them and calls them a fag, fact is there are plenty of people who find that offensive.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

I just realized I haven't answered here yet.

Well I'm bisexual. And regarding the question of being 'too young to know' I've been there since I was 14...so although some people may have thought it to be a phase..I'm pretty sure it's n ot, or otherwise it's a pretty long lasting phase.
What I really hate is people judging me like either 'ohh, so you're straight' or 'so you're a lezz', it's just annoying. And also really interesting what information people's judgements are sometimes based on...like...does watching 'The L Word' make me nessecarily a lesbian?
Deep in my heart I think most people are probably more or less bisexual, does that make any sense?

 

[TabulaRasa]

I just want to add that if you feel the need to 'hide' homosexuality from anyone, you are agreeing to the fact that it's wrong. It should be as natural, especially in this day and age, as walking.

I clicked bi girl, although I am not into labels. I think it's possible to love whomever you love, and sometimes you can't help but fall for someone of the same sex. And that's ok, doesn't make it wrong. In love there is no wrong and no right, it is what it is.

In the words of Shane (the l word) "sexuality is fluid, whether you're gay, straight or bisexual."

Oh and I live in TN, yes bible belt, so yes you have to be careful here, but only because other people make it hard for you. Not because it's actually wrong to love someone of the same gender.

When I raise my kids I am going to explain it like this to them:

Families come in all forms. Some families have a mommy and a daddy, some have just aunts and uncles, or grandparents, and some have two mommy's or two daddy's. And of course adding in single parent families etc. This way my children will grow up open minded and they don't have to 'learn' about homosexuality from someone who is againts it and feel shocked.

How did I know I liked girls as well as boys? Well I liked my second grade teacher. Did I know what it meant then? Nooo I was too young, but I know now. I also liked my brother's second grade teacher, I was in grade 8 then. Did I know then? Sort of. I started to get it, and then I knew in highschool 100% that I liked both sexes. Some people think, oh please in grade 2 how could that be? Well because I was born to love who I love. It wasn't a choice I made. The only time I get to make a choice is in the end, who I choose to be with. But that could mean going against my heart. Something I would never do!

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

To quote the fantastic Phoebe Buffay teaching a group of kids about sexuality.

Sometimes men love women,
Sometimes men love men,
Sometimes they're bisexual
But some just say they're kidding themselves🙂

Don't necessarily agree with the last bit BUT love it anyway🙂

 

[girlunstrung]

With my love for Willow and Tara? How could I be straight, honestly? XD

No, I likes me my girls.

 

[Kemy]

For the most part, straight male, but have had sexual and gender identity issues over the years in relation to certain people in my life.

 

[Tru Mackney]

I used to think I was straight until I met this girl and she "won me over head over feet" the first time I saw her! Lol! (Did anyone get the Alanis Morissette reference just then??) That's when I started struggling with my sexuality.

 

[Angelic Slayer]

Well, I also put "no label" for this one. Although if someone were to ask I'd be up to say bisexual female, I really can't accurately judge whether I'm bi, gay or something in between and I really don't care to take the time to! It's all the same to me!

Right now I'm dating a female whom I love very much (*inwardly squees!*). Although I find both men and women equally attractive, I can't see myself ever having a serious relationship with a guy. Now, saying that I can't imagine myself in any relationship really other than the one I am in now. I'm a very (let's say picky 😉) when it comes to relationships, I'm definitely in it for the long haul-- and probably partially because of that I like to see myself as a very monogamous person.

Yes, my girlfriend and I (and some other BB-ers *cough cough*) can talk about this guy or that girl who we think are smoking hot-- that obviously is not an issue! It's just when it comes to relationships, I'm just not into the idea of being with anyone else period.

It's all vry hard to explain (I'm probably not making any sense now :blush: ), but that's the main gists of it. And as you can see trying to label it as anything makes my brain hurt, so I try not to!

As long I'm happy, I really don't see the need to worry about it! 🙂


^^^^

And totally agree with you TM! I thought I was straight until "that girl" came along 😉 lol