Shanshu for angel or spike? what do u think?

It really annoys me that we will never know about this. Why did Angel have to end with so many loose ends??!! One of my main curiosities was who the shanshu prophecy was meant for, and we never get to find out! 🙁 As for who I think the prophecy was meant for, even though they are both truly deserving, I think it was meant for Angel.

FRED I thought the Shanshu had to do with Angel becoming
human again after"”
EVE that's just the epilogue, princess. And, for the
record, the prophecy doesn't call Angel by name.
GUNN Hold on. You're saying because Spike's back, you
think he's"”
EVE I don't think anything. All I can tell you is his
very existence is disrupting the order of things.
ANGEL No argument here.
GUNN This doesn't add up. There were already 2 souled
vampires in the universe before Spike fried. Why is this happening
now?
EVE The keyword here is "champion." Spike gave his life
to save the world. That gives him the cred. But when he died and
became a ghost, case closed. Now that he's back, all bets are off,
kids.

Why would the natural order of the universe be thrown off if Spike was meant to come back? Technically, he should have still been gone, leaving only one Vampire with a soul, Angel, and if he was the only one, then he should have been the only candidate for shanshu. Somebody obviously messed up the universe by bringing Spike back when he wasn't meant to come back. Okay, that was really poorly explained, so I hope you get what I mean, lol.
 
Why do Angel or Spike have to receive redemption in the form of shanshu? Is it really that important that either of them become human, again? Because I feel that it is more important that each try to and remain decent beings - whether they are humans or vampires.
 
As true as that may be, the two vampires considered that to be the ultimate reward from them-in some cases, it was their motivation. So, it is important that they hold onto this motivation.
 
It's important because they both want to be with Buffy. She's their motivation. That's why Angel signed away the shanshu because Andrew told him the only he can be with her is if he moves on and they find each other later.
 
Cookie Dough said:
It's important because they both want to be with Buffy. She's their motivation. That's why Angel signed away the shanshu because Andrew told him the only he can be with her is if he moves on and they find each other later.
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Are you saying that Buffy is some kind of prize for either Angel or Spike? If that's the case, then the Shanshu isn't worth spit in the wind. I don't think that Buffy would care to be considered a prize by either vampire. And quite frankly, I'm glad that she ended up with neither of them.

Why is it always about Buffy and Angel to you? Is that what you think both shows are about?
 
*sniffs the air and smells a heated argument coming on*

Just a gentle reminder that everyone has the right to an opinion, even if it's not the one you keep.....
 
Jacklyn said:
*sniffs the air and smells a heated argument coming on*

Just a gentle reminder that everyone has the right to an opinion, even if it's not the one you keep.....
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But don't we also have a right to disagree with someone else's opinion?
 
I think it would be more in keeping with the spirit of the show if neither Angel or Spike ever became human. I attended the chicago comicon last august, and Joss did a Q&A. He talked about how the message of the last episode was that you never get to stop fighting. Additionally, we know it's in Angel's,and more recently, Spike's characters to be extremely selfless. Plus, think of the stories they could tell with Angel and Spike fighting evil for centuries!
 
WatcherWes said:
I think it would be more in keeping with the spirit of the show if neither Angel or Spike ever became human. I attended the chicago comicon last august, and Joss did a Q&A. He talked about how the message of the last episode was that you never get to stop fighting. Additionally, we know it's in Angel's,and more recently, Spike's characters to be extremely selfless. Plus, think of the stories they could tell with Angel and Spike fighting evil for centuries!
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"You never get to stop fighting"? That's the big message at the end?
 
well, there was a bit more to it. it was essentially, "You never get to stop fighting, not if you want to be a decent person."
 
It was also that both Angel and Spike realised that all the fighting they had been doing between themselves regarding the Shanshu, not to mention the loss of faith Angel had experienced in the last year, had been pointless. They realised that they weren't fighting for a prize but because it was the right thing to do and that was the life they chose to lead.
 
well, that was a plot point for the two characters, but he was talking about the overall theme of the show.
 
WatcherWes said:
well, that was a plot point for the two characters, but he was talking about the overall theme of the show.
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Which i why i said "also", as in additionally to the central point.

As you no doubt know Not Fade Away was originally written as the season finale rather than the series overall and the end was intended to show that the two vamps were moving passed the whole Shanshu thing and getting back to the mission for it's own sake. That decision therefore was meant as a plot point but became the show's message once the show was cancelled.
 
LadyLavinia said:
Are you saying that Buffy is some kind of prize for either Angel or Spike? If that's the case, then the Shanshu isn't worth spit in the wind. I don't think that Buffy would care to be considered a prize by either vampire. And quite frankly, I'm glad that she ended up with neither of them.

Why is it always about Buffy and Angel to you? Is that what you think both shows are about?
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Yes Buffy is a toy surprise. (end sarcasm..) it's amazing, how you seem to take what anyone says and interpret it as something so irrational that I'm not even sure you understand English. Why are you always jumping at people's throats? I don't come to this site that often but everytime I do you seem like you're pmsing.
 
so...I don't think either of them deserves the shanshu more than the other. Sure Angel has been fighting for it for longer, but thats only because he was given his soul first. yes, given. Spike went and fought for his. Also, Spike sacrificed himself to save the world in chosen.

Angel also signed the shanshu away. so really its Spike's anyway, no matter who deserved it more. That said, who cares who gets the shanshu? the other one could just go and fight a mohra demon like the one in "I will Remember You" and become human again anyway.
 
while I don't want to see either Spike or Angel shansu anytime soon, and I think they'd both be fine candidates, I just thought I'd chime in with a few notes.

Angel continued killing humans, even after getting a soul. He killed criminals, according to the episode "Darla" in Angel season 2 and he arguably killed Lawson in "Why We Fight" from season 5. He also killed Hauser, the head of the W&H ops team in the season 5 premiere. He arranged the death of Lindsey, arranged and carried out the death of Drogyn, a legendary hero. He allowed two vampires, Darla and Drusilla, to have free reign in Holland Manner's wine cellar, murdering over a dozen humans.

On the other hand...the only confirmed human kills Spike's racked up since his ensoulment were done at the command of the First, the ultimate embodiment of primordial evil.
 
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