Shark bite

bespangeled

Scooby
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Black Thorn
When did Buffy and/or Angel jump the shark for you? Or did they? I really would like a scene, something specific. If it wasn't a permanent jump, when did the show come back from the fins? Either way - be as specific as you can.It can be anything from an episode to a glance. But not another discussion about which season the show should have ended, please.
 
Dawn. I think the writers wanted to make Buffy a mother but wanted to take a shortcut and not have to worry about the whole pregnancy and baby aspect. So they created and conjured up a 'daughter' for her. They jumped the shark when they brought her back to life after The Gift.
 
"Into The Woods"! That scene, you know the one, when Buffy chases after Riley after Xander's I'm so gay for Agent Finn He's so perfect I seriously want his d and why don't you Buffy? speech, and then there's the G. I. Joe helicopter and shit and everything is being drowned in that lame, terrible music? Argh! What is this corny garbage?! WTF?! Like what am I even watching? Is this still even Buffy? Hot chicks, superpowers, puns, metaphors? Anybody?

The over-reliance on Buffy's love interests in her personal arcs, the needless melodrama, the convenient lack of self-awareness, the eye-roll inducing corniness - it's all there, it's all already there, this scene is like a bloody harbinger of shit and garbage and gutter oil!!!

And coming back from the *puts on sunglasses* finns? Well, in the next episode! Also, "The Body", yeah, it is pretentious but still pretty boss.
 
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AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
Yes, The Body is boss. It's only pretentious to people who are cynical or don't understand art imo
I never actually reached that point, but there was a scene in both series finales that came pretty darn close. Angel's return in "Chosen," was, to me, totally unnecessary, mostly in the delivery of the deus ex machina in the form of the amulet. Willow should have been able to activate the Potentials, and the power in the Scythe could have destroyed the ubervamps just as easily and effectively as any piece of costume jewelry provided by Wolfram & Hart. The only thing that the scene actually did was provide a (poor) excuse to bring Angel back to town for one final scene, to provide an excuse for Buffy's totally ridiculous cookie dough speech, and to inform Angel that he was no longer the only vampire in the world who had a soul.

Angel's return could just as easily been explained by him coming to let everyone know what had happened to Cordy. The cookie dough thing served no purpose whatsoever, and I have always believed that it would have been far more dramatic to have had Angel and the others find out about Spike's soul on their own, maybe during the attempt to re-corporealize him.

As for the "Angel" finale, it's no secret that I hate the ending. Joss can call it whatever he wants to, a cliffhanger is a cliffhanger, and there's no way to justify ending a series that way. Even worse, I thought, was the explanation later, in IDW's "After The Fall" arc, where it was explained that yet another deus ex machina had to be employed in the form of a fire breathing dragon. What a let down!

And speaking of let downs, having the entire premise of "The Girl In Question" tossed away in the first issue of Dark Horse's continuation of Buffy's series really made me mad. The Immortal had, to me, totally unlimited possibilities as a character, and Joss just tosses him away in a single sentence, by saying that it was all a hoax. I hated that almost as much as the end of "Not Fade Away."
 
Angel's return in "Chosen," was, to me, totally unnecessary, mostly in the delivery of the deus ex machina in the form of the amulet.
But how else would they get Spike onto Angel if not for that? That was the easiest way to do it. 
Edit: I meant Spike on the Angel show.. not literally Spike on Angel, that wouldn't be very family friendly, even though there was that one time..
 
The only thing that the scene actually did was provide a (poor) excuse to bring Angel back to town for one final scene, to provide an excuse for Buffy's totally ridiculous cookie dough speech, and to inform Angel that he was no longer the only vampire in the world who had a soul.
But that's a whole three things!😉
As for the "Angel" finale, it's no secret that I hate the ending. Joss can call it whatever he wants to, a cliffhanger is a cliffhanger, and there's no way to justify ending a series that way.
Absolutely love the neverending ending.
 
For me it was "Normal Again 6ABB17". I know the story is based on a venom from a demon that made her believe she was insane and all of the Buffyverse had been a symptom, but the continuous exposure to what would normally have happened with an insane girl shook the entire foundations of the Buffyverse. It made me feel like I was insane for ever having watched it.
 
Man, all o' you are tough critics!

I guess my definition is a bit different. For me, a show jumps the shark (who invented that term anyway) when the show becomes so ridiculous/OOC/stupid/a poor copy of it's former self to the point where I don't want to watch the show anymore. Usually, when a show jumps the shark, I stop watching. For example, Glee jumped the shark super early on, One Tree Hill jumped the shark around s5 for me, couldn't finish the rest. Pretty Little Liars jumped the shark after they revealed A #81. All those shows have in common the fact that I stopped watching.

To me, neither Buffy not Angel ever jumped the shark, they always felt like Buffy and Angel. Some storylines were certainly weaker than others, like Buffy s7 and Angel s4 have a lot of weak points, but they are still superior shows than half of what is on TV and they have many redeeming qualities too. Not once did I debate giving up on the show, to me it was always good enough to maintain my interest.
 
Whatever people may thing of NFA or Chosen...isn't saying a show jumped the shark in the series finale kind of redundant? Or am I misunderstanding the phrase "jump the shark". To my understanding, it implies that the show will keep going. I know we ended up with comics of both eventually, but at the time, the endings were the endings. They weren't going any further; so there was nowhere to jump to.

I don't think either jumped the shark personally. I think both shows had their ups and downs, but I think the quality was still pretty great overall.
However in the past, I have seen many people note Dawn's introduction as a shark jump.
 
Whatever people may thing of NFA or Chosen...isn't saying a show jumped the shark in the series finale kind of redundant? Or am I misunderstanding the phrase "jump the shark". To my understanding, it implies that the show will keep going. I know we ended up with comics of both eventually, but at the time, the endings were the endings. They weren't going any further; so there was nowhere to jump to.

True and not (maybe) true, depending on whether you see the two shows as ending with those final two episodes. However, since both shows were intended to have left the fans with the impression that the fight continues after the last fade to black, that Buffy and her friends now have a world full of new Slayers to locate and train, and that Angel either will continue fighting the good fight or go down swinging in that alley, even though the series ended, we are supposed to feel that the story has no real end, that there will never be a "happy ever after" for anyone (plus the sort of left handed hint from Joss that he still had many stories to tell about the Buffyverse) that "Chosen" and "Not Fade Away" were simply the ends of Rounds 1&2, respectively, with the rest of the Title Match still to come.
 
VisionBoy
VisionBoy
Okay, I can see where you're coming from there.
For me I think BtVs jumped the shark in season six when Buffy's back from the dead and her friends, who some of them by the way have moved into her house, sit down with her - not to talk and be supportive, god no, who needs that! - but to hand her a bunch of bills! Yay, and also the pipe has burst and now you need to go get a loan but oops, bank-robbing demon appears!

Seriously... wtf, was all that? "Life as the big bad" or "Joss doesn't give a shit anymore so let's just do Charmed, they got like eight seasons right?"

The second instance of shark bite is for me the "let's have Buffy stop being depressed with one speech" during the last five minutes of season 6. There's nothing a viewer loves more than being dragged through the mud for an entire year and then get flipped off with an unsatisfying "well, now she's all better! Que sera, sera!"
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
ha ha ha! I like this
bespangeled
bespangeled
this - very this
The second instance of shark bite is for me the "let's have Buffy stop being depressed with one speech" during the last five minutes of season 6. There's nothing a viewer loves more than being dragged through the mud for an entire year and then get flipped off with an unsatisfying "well, now she's all better! Que sera, sera!"
Screw that! I would rather she be 'cured' in last five minutes then for the damn thing to continue into the next season!
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
counter-point
Screw that! I would rather she be 'cured' in last five minutes then for the damn thing to continue into the next season!

I was more thinking they could have had a "feel better" arc in season 6, I mean they had 20+ episodes... there would have been plenty of time for Buffy to bum around AND for her to feel better.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
god forbid someone from getting some f'ing enjoyment out of that season! cant have that.
I have one demon that I think is the closest BtVS ever come to a Jump the Shark moment.
It's the shark demon (ironically enough) in Tabula Rasa.

But I would never say that Buffy (or Angel) got so lost that it has an actually Jump the Shark moment.
I agree with Blaze. To say that a show Jumped the Shark it must become much more stupid and OOC than Buffy ever got.

/SK
 
I'm taking real liberties with the term 'jumping the shark', but for me, the S4 initiative arc was the first close call. I used to defend S4 and try and see it the other way, but I think I've been convinced by S4 critics from this board. If it wasn't for the great stand alones in S4 they would have lost me with the silly and corny initiative stuff, as well as how they introduced and 'developed' Adam, etc. S6...people's criticisms of S6 are downright hilarious sometimes, and I don't have too much by way of defending it. But I liked the spectacle of S6 and watching everything go to hell, but really I liked the idea more than the execution. Great and ambitious idea (shake things up, go dark, create big changes in the characters and new conflicts) but the execution failed you could say. I think S7 is the real stinker though. The way they used the first (in fact, the entire idea) wasn't developed properly to me and was also anticlimactic. They really came close to loosing me with the potentials idea too, and much more besides. If Buffy ever jumped the shark, it was in S7. It was a really disappointing season for me. And now the Buffy comics are requiring real effort to make it through.

Angel never jumped the shark. In my opinion, it got better with every successive season (all except for Cordy, they really ***** her all up and pissed all over her character starting with her ascension to the higher planes). I have no complaints other than I get a little upset when I think about how we were all robbed of a S6.
 
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"AnthonyCordova: so far I have to agree completely. S8 really sucks so far."

Yeah, I think the only reason I stuck with it was reading it was akin to watching a slow motion car crash. Terrible to behold, but you just couldn't seem to take your eyes off it. 😀
 
Taake
Taake
hahahaha, that's a very accurate description! In the words of Buffy: "..yet my eyes won't look away. Stupid eyes!"
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