Should Angel Have Killed Faith?

[Alittlegrim]

An uncomfortable question I know but she was literally begging him to kill her. She really wanted to die and knew only he could do it. Should he have put her out of her misery or did he do right deciding to try and save her?

 

[Priceless]

I don't believe Faith wanted to die. She wanted to be saved. That's why she wanted to be Buffy and why she came to Angel. If she'd really wanted to die she could have killed herself a thousand different ways. Angel understood that it was a cry for help, not a real attempt to end her life.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't believe Faith wanted to die.

I don't think Faith wanted to die, per se, she just wanted to be done with her life as she saw no way for redemption. She tried to escape her life once and it failed; she saw no other choice but death.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

It is not a clear cut issue. From a utilitarian perspective, it would probably have been best to killer her, as she was one of the most dangerous people in the world. However, I hate morality. I love that his empathy for her made him save her. Still, it was a problematic choice to make.

 

[Bop]

No, he shouldn't have because that's the easy way out for Faith, as Angel said. It would be difficult for Faith to kill herself because she's a slayer, throwing herself in front of a car, or jumping off a cliff may not work. She's survived similar things. Also, I think Faith wanted to be killed, rather than kill herself.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

From a story viewpoint, killing Faith was certainly a moral option. Both Buffy and the Watcher's Council were ready to do just that. Consider, this is war. Faith betrayed the White Hats and joined with a Sorcerer who had been in league with dark forces. She then took a job for Wolfram & Hart, another group of Demon cultists. She had essentially handed the Power of the Slayer, mankind's best weapon against the demons, over to agents of the Old Ones. Second, I like that Champions don't kill humans, I really do. But this is a world of Magicks, Witchcraft and Necromancy. There are humans who have sold their souls to the Dark Powers, and presumably can be executed for that. Faith should be no different. However, I have no objection to what Angel did, if he was able to pull her back, great. Champions should act like champions first. Far better to have an imprisoned slayer than one who is actively fighting the bad fight.

 

[GraceK]

On a slightly different angle, Angel has no grounds to execute Faith. He’s the literal embodiment of walking remorse, gypsies had to curse him to make him feel guilty for the evil he has done. He would be a massive hypocrite to not offer a chance at salvation to a human girl, who is clearly suffering and psychotic. The fact that Faith willingly sat in jail , prepared to stay there indefinitely says a lot to me. She’s a thousand times more valuable alive than dead and is a valuable ally.

@AlphaFoxtrot , The Watchers Council has no moral leg to stand on. It’s not surprising they would murder a slayer,’I don’t look to them for morality. In regards to Buffy, she would have been willing to Kill Faith in battle if she has to, but she wouldn’t execute her in cold blood. Her worst impulse is to do that, but judging by the fact that even after all the shit Faith did to her, her first instinct in Sanctuary is to save Faiths life on the rooftop, I don’t see it happening. She was also an advocate of turning Faith in to jail, not killing her.

She was willing to do it in Graduation to save Angels life, but you could see she regretted it the moment Faith jumped off the roof.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

On a slightly different angle, Angel has no grounds to execute Faith. He’s the literal embodiment of walking remorse, gypsies had to curse him to make him feel guilty for the evil he has done. He would be a massive hypocrite to not offer a chance at salvation to a human girl, who is clearly suffering and psychotic. The fact that Faith willingly sat in jail , prepared to stay there indefinitely says a lot to me. She’s a thousand times more valuable alive than dead and is a valuable ally.

@AlphaFoxtrot , The Watchers Council has no moral leg to stand on. It’s not surprising they would murder a slayer,’I don’t look to them for morality. In regards to Buffy, she would have been willing to Kill Faith in battle if she has to, but she wouldn’t execute her in cold blood. Her worst impulse is to do that, but judging by the fact that even after all the shit Faith did to her, her first instinct in Sanctuary is to save Faiths life on the rooftop, I don’t see it happening. She was also an advocate of turning Faith in to jail, not killing her.

She was willing to do it in Graduation to save Angels life, but you could see she regretted it the moment Faith jumped off the roof.

The problem is, in any case prior to 1996 where a slayer turns rouge, there is no Buffy or Angel. There is only the Council, which has to make the decision if the Slayer can be reasoned with and restored to the light, or if the Slayer is beyond hope, and must be sanctioned with terminal force. Please understand, I am not saying anyone should have killed Faith, and I am glad they were able to get her to repent and seek justice. But, they have the right to kill, and I would support the field commander's decision on that matter.

 

[GraceK]

The problem is, in any case prior to 1996 where a slayer turns rouge, there is no Buffy or Angel. There is only the Council, which has to make the decision if the Slayer can be reasoned with and restored to the light, or if the Slayer is beyond hope, and must be sanctioned with terminal force. Please understand, I am not saying anyone should have killed Faith, and I am glad they were able to get her to repent and seek justice. But, they have the right to kill, and I would support the field commander's decision on that matter.

The only issue I have with this is that from what we have seen of the council, they don’t seem very sympathetic. I don’t think they would have tried to help Faith at all actually, I think they consider Slayers expendable and would have just killed her so a new one is called. The fact they have the Crucimentum when a slayer turns 18, makes it very possible it’s a way of pruning the old to make way for the new. The fact that Giles’s first instinct in Consquences is NOT to involve the Council says a lot to me.

 

[thetopher]

If we believe Jasmine in that she brought Angel back from Hell and that she manipulated him, Cordelia, Doyle et all in a great attempt to bring about her people-eating utopia then saving Faith was probably the best thing Angel has ever done or ever will do, since she directly helped foil Jasmine and her paradise apocalypse by bringing Angel back when no-one else could.


But that's big scale-thinking, but even small scale then yes, it was the right thing to do; the possibility of a good life is always better than another death; Angel is supposed to embody the ever-present possibility of (and search for) redemption; Faith's life saved and her following in his footsteps is a big tick in that column. She now has the same path that he has.


For the record I absolutely do think that Faith wanted to die- more specifically to be killed- just like Angel wanted that way back in 19th Budapest; she just didn't have the will to do it herself, she thought that it would be right and proper that somebody that she had wronged and hurt in the past- Angel- should be the one to do it.

 

[zoe]

I think at some point Angel identified with her and decided giving her a chance, however i believe that if he truly consider her a evil , he wouldn´t have help her

 

[maddie]

No.
1.) Killing a human being while he had a soul would have ruined Angel's redemption arc, as well as the audience's ability to empathize with him.
2.) Faith was one of the most popular characters. Having another popular kill her wouldn't have made any sense to appeal to the audience (although, this was obviously not always the writers' goal).
3.) Angel always identified with Faith and had empathy for her. It would not have made any narrative sense for him to go against his conscience.
4.) Faith was a human being with a tragic back story! It was set up from the beginning that there were reasons that she ended up the way she did, but that she still had humanity in her and she could be redeemed at some point.
5.) Her character development was one of the best parts of both series.

 

[thrasherpix]

From a story standpoint, it would look really bad if Angel killed Faith, but then went to the lengths he did to save Darla (including in how slow he was to end her as a vampire). It would be believable, mind you, but not of a person deserving of redemption.

At least that's for me. I remember the first time I saw Return of the Jedi, someone told me that it was about the "redemption of fathers" (which is why she liked it, having been raised by an abusive one). But as the credits rolled I was like, "That's it?"

I had built myself up for more than Vader killing the Emperor to save his own son when Vader wanted his son to help him to kill the Emperor in the first place (and the Emperor was nicely distracted with Luke as Vader killed him). And it's his freaking son, plenty of thoroughly evil people can still love their children. And while I could see Luke forgiving him (essentially pulling an Angel there), I'd think Han and Leia (both tortured without questioning in addition to blowing up Leia's home...imagine someone blowing up your town or city and everyone you cared about as part of their interrogation of you) would demand something more (assuming anything could convince them Vader had changed as a person--which they might not even care about even if he had). And would people in the spice mines, or the wookies that were brutally occupied, or the many others say Vader was redeemed just because he didn't stand by while his own son was killed? Or would they just see him as the same ruthless villain who merely exercised a selfish desire to save his own flesh and blood and slay the Emperor which he'd been meaning to do anyway?

I bring that up because some people believe that means he's redeemed, but it doesn't work for me. By the same token, I do believe Angel is truly seeking redemption (whether or not he NEEDS to for any reason other than his own conscience is another topic), but if if the Darla arc stayed exactly the same but he killed Faith then I just wouldn't respect his redemption journey. That's not to say I'd see him as identical to Angelus, just that he was a selfish, self-absorbed bastard whose only motive was trying to get out of Hell or otherwise escape his guilt (lots of people do selfish and even terrible things while feeling bad about it). He could still fight the good fight, but I'd think of him as more of an anti-heroic mercenary rather than a champion.