Should Angel Have Told Buffy?

Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
For me, Spuffy is different because he was not her first love. I do not think you can be friends with your first love. Like Spike says in 'Lovers Walk', "You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it kills you both." Its interesting that neither Buffy or Angel argues with him.

Spike and Buffy are true friends. They have been through so much together and had arrived at a place of real mutual trust and affection.

I believe Buffy loves Spike, yes. But not in the way she loves Angel. I believe her when she says she will never love anyone more than him. Spike introduced her, in my opinion, to a different kind of love. Sure, it was sort of backwards, but in the end, they arrived at the right place, you know?

And I think I've said this before, but I believe Buffy was denial about her love for Spike until it was too late. I don't think she thought she was lying when she told him "I can't love you." She truly, at that point, believed that. In Buffy's moral universe, it was highly problimatic for her to love a soulless vampire. Spike died right after she told him she loved with him for the first time.

How will we never know if they can then be "in love" and friends? What I'm saying is that we don't know how that situation would play out.
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I see what you mean.

Regarding the 'Lovers Walk' speech and the fact that neither Buffy nor Angel argue with him, my only thing to say to that is that that was then, and this is now. Back then, I don't think they were friends. I think in the second half of season three, a friendship begins to develop within their more romantic relationship, the way they talk to each changes and the slushiness subsides, a little anyway 😉 So what I'm basically saying is that as much as I think that speech was true of Buffy and Angel then, I don't think applies now. And I'm not entirely convinced Spike would feel that way now either.
 
Flannen said:
I see what you mean.

Regarding the 'Lovers Walk' speech and the fact that neither Buffy nor Angel argue with him, my only thing to say to that is that that was then, and this is now. Back then, I don't think they were friends. I think in the second half of season three, a friendship begins to develop within their more romantic relationship, the way they talk to each changes and the slushiness subsides, a little anyway 😉 So what I'm basically saying is that as much as I think that speech was true of Buffy and Angel then, I don't think applies now. And I'm not entirely convinced Spike would feel that way now either.
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I can see that. Surely they've both changed and grown as people. Yet, I still don't believe they could really be friends. As to if Spike would still feel that way regarding Bangel; I absolutely believe he still would. Angel still loves Buffy as much as ever, wouldn't you say so? He's just reevaluated his priorities.

As to Spike being friends with Buffy; he surely would agree to that if she ever asked him. He'd be sad, because he wants more, but he'd deal.

I know that my argument is not very strong, I'll admit that lol

But hell, I'm a Spuffy remember? Perhaps this is my bias and weakness for the pairing coming out. I just see this situation as...different.
 
Flannen
Flannen
It's good to see things as different. Me and you would bore each other otherwise ;)
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
I can see that. Surely they've both changed and grown as people. Yet, I still don't believe they could really be friends. As to if Spike would still feel that way regarding Bangel; I absolutely believe he still would. Angel still loves Buffy as much as ever, wouldn't you say so? He's just reevaluated his priorities.
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Yup, I certainly would say so. Just like I'd say Buffy still loves him as much as ever 😉

And I only think that Spike might feel differently because I think the way he sees love now has changed since being in love with Buffy and getting a soul.

Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
But hell, I'm a Spuffy remember? Perhaps this is my bias and weakness for the pairing coming out. I just see this situation as...different.
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This may be true, but it's also true of the way I see it. It's only my bias and weakness for my pairing that causes me to see it the way I do 😉

And this is kinda getting of topic, should we hush now? ha! 😀
 
They never developed a real friendship before they got involved. He apparently loved her before they even met. Once the romantic relationship was over, what was there to go back to? Him watching her from a distance and occasionally popping up to warn her about something? That's about all the interaction they had until they started dating.

Buffy and Xander are friends. Angel and Fred are friends. Buffy and Angel will always love and care for each other, but they'll never be friends.

Just my opinion of course, but I don't see how it could be any other way unless Angel pulls an "I Will Remember You, Part 2" and erases every memory she has of him starting from "Welcome to the Hellmouth".
 
Paramour said:
They never developed a real friendship before they got involved. He apparently loved her before they even met. Once the romantic relationship was over, what was there to go back to? Him watching her from a distance and occasionally popping up to warn her about something? That's about all the interaction they had until they started dating.

Buffy and Xander are friends. Angel and Fred are friends. Buffy and Angel will always love and care for each other, but they'll never be friends.

Just my opinion of course, but I don't see how it could be any other way unless Angel pulls an "I Will Remember You, Part 2" and erases every memory she has of him starting from "Welcome to the Hellmouth".
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It's not about going back to something, it's about them moving forward to something.

I just find their interaction after Angel has left L.A as very much that of friends. The scene in the hallway in 'The Yoko Factor' is always one that stands out for me and a good example of how they have moved forwards to a friendship.

However, the fact they usually always kiss when the see each other again (Yoko Factor) excluded, doesn't always help my argument, haha!

I do see what you're saying though Paramour, that they're relationship wasn't about being friends first, which is a good point. But that's why I find it so good to see them together later on in the series in a more friendy type way...does that make sense? I see the fact that after everything they've been through they can be that with each other as quite admirable.
 
Flannen said:
I do see what you're saying though Paramour, that they're relationship wasn't about being friends first, which is a good point. But that's why I find it so good to see them together later on in the series in a more friendy type way...does that make sense? I see the fact that after everything they've been through they can be that with each other as quite admirable.
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I completely agree with you there. When I say, "they'll never be friends", I don't mean they won't be friendly with each other, cause they still care very deeply for each other and that doesn't just go away. But Angel obviously will never want to see Buffy with anyone else and vice versa. When my friends are in relationships and they're happy, I'm happy for them. I can't see that ever happening between those two. As long as they're not around each other for too long, they can pass as friends. I just can't see them hanging out on a regular basis (the way friends do) and it not turning into either a huge fight or a make out session. There's too much emotion involved.
 
Paramour said:
I completely agree with you there. When I say, "they'll never be friends", I don't mean they won't be friendly with each other, cause they still care very deeply for each other and that doesn't just go away. But Angel obviously will never want to see Buffy with anyone else and vice versa. When my friends are in relationships and they're happy, I'm happy for them. I can't see that ever happening between those two. As long as they're not around each other for too long, they can pass as friends. I just can't see them hanging out on a regular basis (the way friends do) and it not turning into either a huge fight or a make out session. There's too much emotion involved.
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I completely agree. You pretty such said what I said but better; ) Yet, I can see Spuffy "hanging out" like that, after all, that's what they did all through season 7.

---------- Post added at 05:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

PrincessBuffy16 said:
Well as you said, we all have our opinions and were in different situations. Every boy I have been with was mine friend and stayed that way after we broke up.
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Well, yes, my best friend is an ex of mine. Yet, I wasn't in love with him, we only dated for a short while, about 5 months. Surely we don't all fall in love with everyone we date. All of my other exs - we are on friendly terms.

My most recent ex, who I was very much in love with, I am finding it hard to see him as my "friend". All I'm saying is that when a breakup is nasty or not mutual there are often hard feelings. I applaud your maturity and ability to move on and still be friends with your exes.

Spuffy started as enemies, to allies, to an ill-advised love affair, and then to friends. To me, thats a pretty solid foundatin to form a future romance on 😉
 
T
thevikingsgirl
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What an interesting conversation this has moved into. I agree with what Paramour said about Angel and Buffy not being friends before they were lovers. I always thought the best and most healthy relationships were based on friendship. This doesn't mean that friendship can't evolve but it may be harder for it to do so. I most definately think Spike and Buffy had much more of a friendship then Angel and Buffy.

But maybe it seems like more of an epic lovestory if they both were instantly attracted to each other, like they were meant to be. I could see Spuffy being friends if they couldn't be lovers but Bangel, not really. Partly this is circumstance, partly I think it's because Spike would be more willing to quelch his emotions just to be around her rather then not have her at all. I believe Spike understood Buffy and really got to know her in a way that Angel never did.
 
I think people can't see Bangel as friends because they started as romance. I think there was a time when they couldn't be friends. But just friends. They couldn't be i the same room without kissing or hugging. But when they were together, they were friends. I mean if they were only sleeping, or kissing, without talking, then we couldn't say they were friends, but they were. And we see that in the last episode. They are mature. They are friends. Friends in love.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
Spuffy started as enemies, to allies, to an ill-advised love affair, and then to friends. To me, thats a pretty solid foundatin to form a future romance on 😉
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You see this is what I find most interesting, mainly in regards to me and you, Joan, and what I think makes us the polar opposite of each other when it comes to 'ships. Because to me, that is the very opposite of what I think makes a solid foundation to form a future romance on. But that only continues to highlight what we have both said about ourselves, I go for conventional and unconventional is what is attractive to you 🙂
 
white avenger said:
Ultimately, the reason that Spike never left in search of Buffy was that he was by that time a regular member of the "Angel" cast, and he could not be allowed to leave, while Sarah was either too busy or, more likely, simply reluctant to reprise a role that she had put behind her.
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This is the real reason, IMO. I think it's totally out of character for Spike not to have contacted Buffy. This is the guy who, once he decided he was in love with her, was there every time she turned around even when she was 100% mean to him. He was very persistent even when there seemed to be no hope she could ever have feelings for him. But the reality was, Buffy was over and Spike was on Angel and there was no way to make it work so it didn't happen.
 
No, Angel shouldn't have told Buffy. He can't be sticking his nose into other peoples business.
It was up to Spike alone to decide.
And anyway, Angel of all people would rightly be the last person to tell Buffy Spikes back.
And tbh, i dont think it was that ooc for Spike not to contact Buffy. Maybe it would be different if SD was still intact and Buffy was still slaying away as usual up there.
 
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