Should Buffy told Angel what was going on with Acathla, before killing him? Instead of doing it when he wasn't looking, so to speak.
Should Buffy have explained to Angel?
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
I don't think she had the time to do that. Plus, he was so disorientated, he had no idea what had happened over those months. To him, the last time he saw Buffy was the night they slept together. What she would have to tell him would take a lot longer than she had. I think it was better that she got do what really mattered: tell him that she loved him and give him one last, loving kiss. In Hell, he would remember everything that happened with Angelus, I think it was important for Buffy go give him something good and loving to remember, too.
S
SlayerPrincess
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Robb Stark
King in the North
I have to echo [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]. I think Buffy made the right move in not telling him. Heck, I don't know if she even had time to tell him, even if she'd wanted to. And if she didn't, I'm glad she spent the final moments she thought they'd ever have together in one of the most touching, romantic and powerfully emotional moments I've seen.
white avenger
white avenger
Miss K and I don't get to agree that often about matters involving Buffy and Angel, but in this case, we are in total agreement. There wasn't time for explanations, apologies, or expressions of regret. Buffy did what had to be done, because that was her job. Stab the vampire. Close the portal. Walk away crying.
I do still maintain, however, that sending Angel through the portal with a sword through his chest accomplished almost the same thing as sending him through with the sword in his hand. No normal sword could possibly harm a vampire in that fasion, which Buffy knew full well. She sent Angel to hell because that was her job. She sent him there with a usable weapon because she loved him.
As for why she kept saying for the next 5 years that she "killed" him, when she knew every single method of killing vampires, and knew also that a steel sword through the chest most certainly ISN'T one of them...
Joss made her do it.
I do still maintain, however, that sending Angel through the portal with a sword through his chest accomplished almost the same thing as sending him through with the sword in his hand. No normal sword could possibly harm a vampire in that fasion, which Buffy knew full well. She sent Angel to hell because that was her job. She sent him there with a usable weapon because she loved him.
As for why she kept saying for the next 5 years that she "killed" him, when she knew every single method of killing vampires, and knew also that a steel sword through the chest most certainly ISN'T one of them...
Joss made her do it.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
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Cohen
Hellhound
to be fair, she was certain she killed him by sending him to that dimension. she only found out later she was wrong. so from her point of view at the time of sending angel to hell, she killed him. and when she references this, she means, she killed him to save the world.
Buffy Summers
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white avenger
white avenger
At the very least, Buffy should have quit taking the blame for a death that never happened when Angel returned the next season and said that he had spent 100 years, or some such, in a hell dimension. He couldn't live for a century in another dimension and be dust on the wind at the same time.
At the very worst, Buffy sent Angel to a place where he MIGHT have been killed. That and actually killing her boyfriend are two totally different things.
None of which has anything in the least to do with the subject of this thread, so I'm gonna shut up now.
Mischlings
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Ethan Reigns
Scooby
Angel wasn't the one who unleashed Acathla, Angelus was. If I was told that I had set events in motion that would cause the world to be thrown entirely into hell and I had no memory of it but was also told I had to be killed to stop it, I would probably not believe it and just try to escape. Buffy did what was necessary - kept quiet and killed him by surprise.
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Buffy stabbed him with a sword and he went to hell, what could be closer to killing someone?
I dont think it was a matter of time, there didn't seem to be any immediate rush with the portal. But I dont think she could have gotten threw telling him, plus he was all discombobulated.
I dont think it was a matter of time, there didn't seem to be any immediate rush with the portal. But I dont think she could have gotten threw telling him, plus he was all discombobulated.
white avenger
white avenger
That would be fine except for the fact that Angel DID remember what Angelus did, both in Season 2 and the hundred plus years before he was cursed with a soul. Without any memory, there couldn't be the same level of guilt, and NOBODY can say that Angel never felt guilt. Regardless of what anyone else ever said, Angel never separated himself into two entities. When he spoke of the chaos and atrocities perpetrated by Angelus, he always spoke in the first person, "I killed more people than the plague," "I drove Drucilla insane before turning her," "I tortured and raped for over a century, and did it with a song in my heart"
If there had been time, and if Buffy had told him what she was doing, I have no doubt that he would have jumped through that portal voluntarily, and I also have no doubt that once the deed was done, when he found himself in whatever hell he wound up in, he realized exactly what had happened, why it had happened, and that Buffy did the only thing that time permitted.
Buffy Summers
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Robb Stark
King in the North
Well...yes and no. Angel tells Faith directly that he never had a choice or a say in what Angelus did. So clearly, he was thinking about and was conflicted about it. Most of the lines you referenced took place near the beginning of the series, before Angel sort of evolves as a character and, I don't want to say "get past it" because he never truly gets past it, sees Angelus differently than how he sees himself.
white avenger
white avenger
That would be fine, and would support the view that Angelus and Angel are two different people. But if that were truly the case, then the Gypsies' spell wouldn't have had any effect at all on Angel. If he and Angelus are truly two separate beings who just happen to occupy the same animated corpse, then Angel didn't do anything to feel regret for or to try and make amends for. It can't be both ways. Either Angel sees himself as the monster who has been given a second chance, or he is simply a helpless observer, totally innocent of any wrongdoing. Obviously, he sees himself as the latter, otherwise all of his brooding would be wasted. In order to have a tortured soul, there has to be something to have been tortured for.
Robb Stark
King in the North
To be honest, I have never understood how people can see Angel's situation like this. That if an invading force completely took over your body and did horrendous things (exactly what happened to Angel), that even if you didn't have a hand in it you wouldn't have felt responsible. I don't think Angel has anything to feel guilty over, but I understand why he does. Just like I don't think Spike in S7 and beyond has anything to feel guilty over, but I understand why he does.
This happened frequently in fiction. The Black Lantern storyline in DC Comics, Superman being mind-controlled (multiple times), Clark being infected with red kyptonite in Smallville, there are countless examples I can think of. None of those listed were responsible for their actions, but they feel guilt and remorse because it still happened with their hands, their bodies, and they still remember every second of it. That's noble, and it shows very much that they're good people.
Frankly, I think it would be more than a little weird if someone who went through that felt nothing. So yes, Angel, Spike and the rest can have it both ways. And if Angel didn't recognize that at all, then why would he have said what he said to Faith?
Cohen
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Ethan Reigns
Scooby
It is Angel's blood that is needed to close the portal, so if he jumped through it without being stabbed, the portal would not close. He also appeared to have no memory of what he had done immediately after being restored by the Gypsy curse, the same as when it was originally done and he had to wait for several minutes before it all came back to him. There wasn't enough time and with what was at stake, Buffy did the only reliable act to save the world by not discussing it before stabbing him.
CordelliasHeart
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Dont forget THE CREEPY CREEPY symnetry, with ths scene with Darla, where she embraced him.
the "Close your eyes" line... and buffy hax to know that just at that moment angel felt shocked and betrayed.
good thing buffy didnt get the irony, or else it would have been even more painful for her.
the "Close your eyes" line... and buffy hax to know that just at that moment angel felt shocked and betrayed.
good thing buffy didnt get the irony, or else it would have been even more painful for her.
Cordy_Chase
Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Actually I think the fact that he had no idea what was going on at that moment was the perfect chance. There was no time for everything that needed to be explained and it would have been weird: "Sorry Angel but I'm gonna have to kill you to stop the apocalypse."
No, not immediately after the curse was cast. In both instances he was disoriented for the first minute or so. We see in the flashback in Becoming pt. 1 when the gypsies initially cast it the father of the young girl he'd killed was there to witness it take effect:
"It hurts yes? Good it will hurt more!"
"Where am I?"
"You don't remember? Everything you've done for 100 years? In a moment you will."
Interesting actually how this worked, for that moment when the curse was initially cast 100 years ago he in fact remembered nothing of being a vampire and yet the second time he still knew Buffy. That first moment must send him back to his memory from when he last had a soul.
white avenger said:
No, not immediately after the curse was cast. In both instances he was disoriented for the first minute or so. We see in the flashback in Becoming pt. 1 when the gypsies initially cast it the father of the young girl he'd killed was there to witness it take effect:
"It hurts yes? Good it will hurt more!"
"Where am I?"
"You don't remember? Everything you've done for 100 years? In a moment you will."
Interesting actually how this worked, for that moment when the curse was initially cast 100 years ago he in fact remembered nothing of being a vampire and yet the second time he still knew Buffy. That first moment must send him back to his memory from when he last had a soul.