Should Buffy have used force?

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NoShip

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In several threads about Empty Places, Posters have advocated that Buffy use force to keep her position.

I know that is out of character and not what was written and really beyond anything that Buffy ever would do.

But, as a thought experiment, i am interested in what would have happened if she did use force to put down the mutiny.

How would it end? Would Touched have to be rewritten? Would Buffy have pounded on Dawn? The Scoobies? The Potentials? What would 'Victory' look like?

Thoughts?
 
NoShip said:
what would have happened if she did use force to put down the mutiny.
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She would have failed and it would have been much worse. She couldn't fight off another slayer, a group of potentials, a witch, a surrogate father and Xander all looking to subdue her.
 
No way would that have worked. Even if Buffy won, and as @Skanky Vamp said, she couldn't have fought everyone, the best result would be a battered Buffy and everyone else. And everyone else would have been perfectly justified in saying "Fine. You can be boss. We are leaving. Boss Spike and Andrew around all you like; you deserve them."
 
NotASlayer said:
No way would that have worked. Even if Buffy won, and as @Skanky Vamp said, she couldn't have fought everyone, the best result would be a battered Buffy and everyone else. And everyone else would have been perfectly justified in saying "Fine. You can be boss. We are leaving. Boss Spike and Andrew around all you like; you deserve them."
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I totally agree. I have never been able to headcanon any other result.

You do bring up a great question.....

I wonder what would have happened if Spike had been there?
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Stake time?
NoShip said:
In several threads about Empty Places, Posters have advocated that Buffy use force to keep her position.
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Yeah not sure what they think that will achieve. The beatings will continue until morale improves!

Anyway for the hypothetical assuming Buffy had a lobotomy and decided to take on a room full of combatants including a slayer, witch and watcher, she'd lose.

Empty Places is a culmination of lots of poor decisions by lots people. Thinking some deserve a slap isn't the same as it being an actual strategy.
 
Actually THINKING about season 7 (at least by the time the Potentials arrive), even in just trying to understand what I'm seeing and how we're supposed to react, is enough to sprain my brain. It's the season that broke my suspension of disbelief, and I literally can't see it as anything other than burned out writer's fiat. Those weren't excusable plot holes, those were plot CANYONS.

First time I watched that scene--FIRST time which goes to show how bad it's written--I actually backed it up to watch it again (thinking I must have missed something important) as it's so stupid and out of character. Some of the things said just did not make sense.

I then naively assumed that an explanation like Amy's magic or the mystical influence of the First bringing out the worst and suppressing the best would be discovered and countered (in other words, a lazy "Yoko factor" as once done by Spike in season 4). The cops were going crazy, so I could see them being affected by it as well...

Let's just say I was less than pleased by how the rest of the season went, even though I know we're supposed to cheer by the ending like seals clapping for a fish (a reflex more than earned, perhaps even scared not to because others might think you're bad), but I just can't.



As it is...if I MUST head canon it, and keeping out the writer's fiat, Buffy would've lost as others said. Even if she did not, she'd have still lost. Dictatorships that depend on force to make the group work (as opposed to a few dissenters) just don't work. Dictators don't dictate without the support of their military and other necessary resources, and losing those (which can mean refusing to give them all they demand) is typically followed by the dictator falling. Even looking at it as a small time gang, morale would be low, desertion (even defection) would be high.
 
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Even if Spike and Andrew hadn't been sent away, and they backed Buffy up, there is no way they could have won. Sure, Spike is a vampire and he's killed Slayers. But he's only ever managed to fight Buffy to a draw at best, and up against everyone else, including normals who had been killing vampires for years in some cases, he'd have lost. And Andrew is such a pathetic mess he'd likely have been killed (so, some good would have come from it... though maybe that's something I should think but not say...). Buffy had lost the support of the group, justifiably as she'd utterly forgotten how to lead, and there's no way of getting that back with violence.
 
No because then she would have looked like the villain and they would use that against her.

And her walking out made a more powerful statement.
 
Skanky Vamp I rue the day I read your little missive now all I do is see the thread as the force.
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Buffy would not be fighting Willow, cause Willow would not be able to make herself attack Buffy one year after Dark Willow. So it would be Faith and a gaggle of normal humans, Butty has shown the ability to one punch them many times

It wouldn't fix things, except she might decide to throw them out based on having to whack them around
 
Buffy had already lost by the time it got to this point. She should have backed down once it became clear there was a an issue, because if you want people to follow you willingly into battle, beating on them will not help. Even if you win. And EarlierBuffy would not have let it get to this point.

Consider S7 Buffy's dictatorial "I am the Slayer! You will obey!" leadership style to the brainstorming sessions to handle the Mayor, Adam and Glory. Sure, you got the Hummus Offensive and "chase the Mayor with a box labelled ebola," but you also got suggestions from the others without which they would have failed. From Anya's use the Dagon Sphere and Olaf's Hammer against Glory, to Giles running with Xander's idea about merging their skills to create SuperSlayer to so many contributions against the Mayor. None of which would have happened here with S7 Buffy's leadership style at this point.
 
NotASlayer said:
Buffy had already lost by the time it got to this point. She should have backed down once it became clear there was a an issue, because if you want people to follow you willingly into battle, beating on them will not help. Even if you win. And EarlierBuffy would not have let it get to this point.

Consider S7 Buffy's dictatorial "I am the Slayer! You will obey!" leadership style to the brainstorming sessions to handle the Mayor, Adam and Glory. Sure, you got the Hummus Offensive and "chase the Mayor with a box labelled ebola," but you also got suggestions from the others without which they would have failed. From Anya's use the Dagon Sphere and Olaf's Hammer against Glory, to Giles running with Xander's idea about merging their skills to create SuperSlayer to so many contributions against the Mayor. None of which would have happened here with S7 Buffy's leadership style at this point.
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here's the thing about those "strategy" sessions. They were actually research sessions where they discovered how to deal with threat and getting a strategy was just a side effect of gaining knowledge.

There was actually no way gain that sort of info about an entity which was barely known and was in fact using abilties it had just gained. The basically had to brute force the First's army and the thing the others contributed was they increased the amount of brute force the group could bring to bear

And Buffy had never really been a leader. Because she didn't want to lead and told the Scoobies they shouldn't e involved all the way back in the first episode and they NEVER listened!.

She was told she was the leader in season 7 and had no experience dealing with people who didn't want to fight
 
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