Sick of Xander now?

[AnthonyCordova]

Does anyone else just get seriously sick of Xander during rewatches? I've been rewatching various episodes from different seasons, especially S5, and his schtick has gotten very, very tiresome. Every time he speaks is some dumb not so funny joke. Seriously, everyone else has their very funny moments, but they sprinkle in the humor intermittently with long spells of normal speech, and with good timing. Unless Xander is having an ultra serious conversation (like the one he had in S5 with Buffy about love/Riley, right before Riley left) every time he opens his mouth a joke comes out. I think to myself every time he is about to speak, oh here comes a (bad) joke...and I'm right 9 out of 10 times. What a dork. I hate that kind of guy in real life too, the one who is constantly trying with the yuck yucks every chance he gets. He's officially my least favorite guy in the show now.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I know what you mean about Xander but I'm not as down on him as you are. I think after high school his humor gets old. He makes inappropriate jokes and comments when unnecessary. He does try to grow up a little bit from season 5 on but he has his moments that don't work.

 

[AnthonyCordova]

I know what you mean about Xander but I'm not as down on him as you are. I think after high school his humor gets old. He makes inappropriate jokes and comments when unnecessary. He does try to grow up a little bit from season 5 on but he has his moments that don't work.

yeah, I think it's season 5 especially, since that is what I am watching most of. I've noticed he gets worse after high school too. I don't recall S6-7 anymore with regard to this topic, so we'll see again when I rewatch those.

 

[thetopher]

Xander's kind of a quandry for me, since I like his humour best in high school, he gets a lot of the best lines and his clowning to cover insecurity makes a lot of sense to me.

But I dislike a lot of his other character traits, his petty jealousy and judgemental views about Buffy/Angel, specifically.

Then around about S5 Xander begins to mature and I begin to like him...but his humour starts to really bug me. Add to that his 'pity poor me, I can't do anything' schick that crops up a least once a season and I loose patience with him half the time.

His 'judgemental tone' doesn't disappear, but it does seem motivated less by jealousy and more by trying to be a good friend.

So, funnier character in high school, better character (but not so funny) later on?

I'm not sure which I prefer. Maybe S7, when Xander seems more at ease with himself, leaves most of the lame jokes to Andrew and genearally becomes much more grown-up.

 

[Xin Rong]

I find Xander tolerable, and occasionally funny, until season 7, where the writers had absolutely nothing to do with him, story wise, and had backed his development into a corner, so just resorted to contrived justifacations for his place within the gang with lines such as 'you're the guy who sees everything' or 'you're the heart'... that's a load of crap, for nearly the entire run of the show, he's the guy blinded by stupidity, jealousy, an inferiority complex, etc.

 

[Blaze]

There's a lot of things I love about Xander, and there's a lot of things I hate about him.

Him being one of the most judgmental character in the series doesn't help much, and on top of that he's often hypocritical about it (Angel/Spike vs. Anya).

But when he has a moment to shine, he really friggen shines. Two of my favorite scenes in the verse involve Xander, the yellow crayon speech, and the talk with Dawn in s7.

I don't care much for his joke, I guess I can be a bit like him, I tend to make stupid jokes all the time, and I can be a sarcastic a-hole but I'm not a mean person. I can see a bit of that in Xander, he can be funny at times. I don't mind someone with a goofy personality as long as they can be serious, which we know Xander can be. And I admire his loyalty towards Buffy, Xander is the average guy that is pretty useless in the grand scheme of things but he devotes his life to fighting anyway. He has a lots of faults, but he is a brave guy.

Compared to most people in this thread, I like him best in his highschool seasons. Again, he shines in quite a few episodes, sometimes I hate him...a lot. But he loves his friends.

Another point is that I'm glad they didn't make Xander to serious as the seasons progressed. He still had some character growth, but some people really do not change in real life. It might not be the best way to tell a story, but having so many other characters change dramatically (Buffy, Willow, Wes, Cordy), I think Xander's growth is actually handled well.

And from what I remember, Xand-man rocks in s8. So I'm not a huge fan, but I like Xander.

 

[sk]

Nope, I've never felt tired of his jokes.
They are much needed and is a huge part of what I love with the show in first place.

Many of his lines is rather what I look forward to when doing re-watches. 🙂

/SK

 

[brinkster130]

He's never been one of my favorite characters on the show and I do find him very tiresome, but I actually think his character is slowly growing on me; specifically in the comics. He just doesn't seem as judgmental, hypocritical, poor-me, lame jokey in the comics....maybe he is finally growing out of his high school immaturity.

 

[bespangeled]

I find Xander tolerable, and occasionally funny, until season 7, where the writers had absolutely nothing to do with him, story wise, and had backed his development into a corner, so just resorted to contrived justifacations for his place within the gang with lines such as 'you're the guy who sees everything' or 'you're the heart'... that's a load of crap, for nearly the entire run of the show, he's the guy blinded by stupidity, jealousy, an inferiority complex, etc.

My understanding is that they had plans but his drinking was barely in hand. He did go right into rehab when the show was over.

---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

His character does not age well, either. Everyone I introduce to Buffy wants to know who that a-hole is. He makes comments that are way out of line, like telling Cordy she has to dress sluttier when they go to get the missile. Long after Buffy put him in the friend zone, he's still making comments about how she should give him a try. Overall, I think that was a character trope that just outlived it's usefulness - we still have the trope but it's usually something more like Andrew and not a main character.

As for me - yes, I love the scene with Dawn. I think he's way out of line on the Riley speech, but I do love the fact that - when faced with the bespelled Buffy, he turns her down. OTH telling Dawn that Spike raped Buffy was so far out of line it's infuriating. Now way in hell was that his to tell - in fact, Buffy specifically told him not to.

 

[EVIL UU]

@bespangeled

telling Dawn that Spike raped Buffy was so far out of line it's infuriating. Now way in hell was that his to tell - in fact, Buffy specifically told him not to.

I disagree. I see no reason why Xander should keep it secret.

Buffy specifically told him not to

Did she? When?

 

[Xin Rong]

@bespangeled


I disagree. I see no reason why Xander should keep it secret.



Did she? When?

I thought she did, and, even if she didn't, it is not his secret to share, especially with someone as young as Dawn.

Buffy is her parent or guardian, I cannot concieve of a possible reason why he would tell Dawn, other than to get back at Spike - which is petty.

He should not have told Dawn or anyone else for that matter, maybe later on, but no so soon.

For example, if Buffy appeared to be having a bad time dealing with her near rape and no one knew why, then he could tell people like Willow/Giles so they could help her through it, but never Dawn - she's just too young to be dealing with that, and has enough crap going on without Xander dumping Buffy's problems, and his own problems with those prroblems, on Dawn.

 

[bespangeled]

@bespangeled


I disagree. I see no reason why Xander should keep it secret.



Did she? When?

He shouldn't tell because it is not his story to tell! It's a breach of confidence and since he wasn't actually in the room, then it's gossip. I am sorry but I believe very strongly that it is the right of a victim to any assault to chose when and how to tell others,, particularly younger siblings. To rob the victim of that power and choice is flat-out wrong.

DAWN
(defiant)
Fine. I want to go to Spike's.

Buffy takes this in. Then-

BUFFY
Alright.

XANDER
What? Not alright. Are you kidding?
After what he did to-

Buffy shoots Xander a warning look. Cuts him off.

BUFFY
Xander.

XANDER glances at Dawn. Gets that this isn't for her ears.

BUFFY (cont'd)
I'll get our coats.

That was more than enough to let Xander know the Buffy did not want him to tell Dawn.

 

[JCoatsworth]

I disagree. I know what you mean and I can understand it, but many of his jokes are quite funny, in my opinion.

 

[thetopher]

I might be inclinded to give Xander a break on this one.

His best friend since kindergarden is currently on a murderous rampage, Tara is dead, and he feels (again) useless and impotent after, in his eyes, letting Buffy and Tara get shot right in front of him- because he saw the gun first and didn't react in time.

Plus Spike, the guy who he has always disliked, who slept with his fiance (I know they were broken up, but still) and has also been having sex with Buffy, and had now tried to rape her, his other best friend.

I can understand (if not exactly condone) that Xander would snap and blurt something out in frustation that maybe he shouldn't have.

I actually have a bigger problem with Buffy letting Dawn go to Spike's in the first place, after what he did.
I know he can't hurt actually Dawn, but he's hardly stable enough to protect her. For all Buffy knew, Spike wouldn't have even wanted to. 🙁

 

[EVIL UU]

@Xin Rong
@bespangeled

I think that both of those reasons aren't as half as important as Dawn's safety. Dawn still trusts Spike and that trust can be very easily abused. Remember that at this point in the story, Spike's plans are unknown. This is why keeping the truth from Dawn is monumentally irresponsible - not that I blame Buffy, I get why she does not want to talk about it but still, Dawn needs to be clued in. If Buffy can't do that, somebody else has to. Might as well be Xander.

Yeah, I don't like how he does it but I still think that it's the right thing to do.

 

[Xin Rong]

@Xin Rong
@bespangeled

I think that both of those reasons aren't as half as important as Dawn's safety. Dawn still trusts Spike and that trust can be very easily abused. Remember that at this point in the story, Spike's plans are unknown. This is why keeping the truth from Dawn is monumentally irresponsible - not that I blame Buffy, I get why she does not want to talk about it but still, Dawn needs to be clued in. If Buffy can't do that, somebody else has to. Might as well be Xander.

Yeah, I don't like how he does it but I still think that it's the right thing to do.

Firstly, Xander doesn't do it because it's the right thing to do: he is just being vindictive.

Secondly, if it was the right thing to do then Buffy would have done, with the threat of an impending apocalypse, she had other things to deal with. Xander robbed her of the choice to share what happened with Dawn, which is a horrible action.

Thirdly, was it really the right thing to do at that time, when we know Spike had left, possibly for good, as far as Xander knew Spike had left and would not return, they had ample time to tell Dawn he did not need to add more crap on her shoulders, she'd just lost Tara, Willow was going mental and she'd just been nearly killed.

It was a selfish, cruel and annoying thing for Xander to do, there's no justifying that level of screw up, in my view at least.

 

[chasesummers]

He's that rare loyal friend which I would definitely be grateful to have. However he tends to squeeze into others personal issues. In short: Not Cool

 

[EVIL UU]

@Xin Rong

if it was the right thing to do then Buffy would have done

Buffy wants to leave Dawn with a soulless monster who tried to rape her less than a day ago. Quite possibly she actually wants to use her kid sister to show Spike that she still trusts him and that they can still go back to status quo. Point is, Buffy doesn't particularly care about what's right for Dawn here.

he is just being vindictive.

Like I said, I don't like how he does it but I still support it. And anyway, he should be what, not-vindictive? I mean, Dawn basically tells him that he should be like Spike ( Y'know if Spike was here, he'd go back and fight. ) Who wouldn't lose their shit in such a situation? Come on.

It was a selfish

Yeah, a bit.

cruel

Kinda.

and annoying thing for Xander to do

Nah, it was awesome 🙂

It's one of those scenes that always put a smile on my face. There's laughter too. Dawn's kind of like this Spike's fan girl, OK? It's an ongoing theme with her and she sort of personifies this type of blind, naive adoration towards Spike that I truly detest. To me, Xander's line is not just about Dawn, it's a big, honking **** you to every Spike's crazy fan person out there, alright, annoying fan girls mostly. It's a total Ha Ha! Take that bitches! and the fact that it's Xander who delivers that line is an icing on the cake.

Gosh, I love that scene.

 

[bespangeled]

I might be inclinded to give Xander a break on this one.

His best friend since kindergarden is currently on a murderous rampage, Tara is dead, and he feels (again) useless and impotent after, in his eyes, letting Buffy and Tara get shot right in front of him- because he saw the gun first and didn't react in time.

Plus Spike, the guy who he has always disliked, who slept with his fiance (I know they were broken up, but still) and has also been having sex with Buffy, and had now tried to rape her, his other best friend.

I can understand (if not exactly condone) that Xander would snap and blurt something out in frustation that maybe he shouldn't have.

I actually have a bigger problem with Buffy letting Dawn go to Spike's in the first place, after what he did.
I know he can't hurt actually Dawn, but he's hardly stable enough to protect her. For all Buffy knew, Spike wouldn't have even wanted to. 🙁

She felt she knew Dawn would be perfectly safe, and I'm willing to let her make that decision. I really don't want to get back into the AR debate. Just, Buffy did consider the subject and did make and informed decision.

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

Buffy wants to leave Dawn with a soulless monster who tried to rape her less than a day ago. Quite possibly she actually wants to use her kid sister to show Spike that she still trusts him and that they can still go back to status quo. Point is, Buffy doesn't particularly care about what's right for Dawn here.

Yeah, she does. She also knows that it's safe to leave her with Spike. Given that she died to protect Dawn, I doubt she's using her as a ploy to get back together with Spike. I'm amazed at how tolerant you are - there is no way I would be a Buffy fan if I thought she would use Dawn as a bargaining chip. Dawn likes Spike, Dawn was safe with Spike - Buffy had a lot of worse stuff to deal with so she knew she could deal with any Spike stuff later.

Like I said, I don't like how he does it but I still support it. And anyway, he should be what, not-vindictive? I mean, Dawn basically tells him that he should be like Spike ( Y'know if Spike was here, he'd go back and fight. ) Who wouldn't lose their shit in such a situation? Come on.

I wouldn't. I've worked in rape-crisis centers and I know how painful it can be to not have your decisions about the assault respected - particularly by someone who is supposed to be a friend. He should respect Buffy's wishes in the matter. To say that Xander just suddenly loses his temper is ridiculous. He would have achieved the same thing telling her to just shut the hell up about Spike. She's a young girl and Buffy is her guardian, her sister, and the victim of a horrific assault. Xander - with several people around him, shouts it out in the middle of the road after he was told not to. Seriously dick move! Kinda like "Kick his butt" move.

It's one of those scenes that always put a smile on my face. There's laughter too. Dawn's kind of like this Spike's fan girl, OK? It's an ongoing theme with her and she sort of personifies this type of blind, naive adoration towards Spike that I truly detest. To me, Xander's line is not just about Dawn, it's a big, honking **** you to every Spike's crazy fan person out there, alright, annoying fan girls mostly. It's a total Ha Ha! Take that bitches! and the fact that it's Xander who delivers that line is an icing on the cake.

Gosh, I love that scene.

Wow! Strong feelings about a television character, and even stronger feelings about complete stranger who disagree with you about...a television character. Well, guess I am glad you get your jollies. I never really hated any character so I can't empathize.[/QUOTE]

 

[RomanticSoul]

Yeah, she does. She also knows that it's safe to leave her with Spike. Given that she died to protect Dawn, I doubt she's using her as a ploy to get back together with Spike. I'm amazed at how tolerant you are - there is no way I would be a Buffy fan if I thought she would use Dawn as a bargaining chip. Dawn likes Spike, Dawn was safe with Spike - Buffy had a lot of worse stuff to deal with so she knew she could deal with any Spike stuff later.

I'm sorry but what? You don't take someone to a guy who just the night before tried to freaking rape you. You don't take ANYONE there. And sure as hell not someone you supposedly care about.

And lets not forget that Dawn probably wouldn't even register as human with the chip and considering Spike's state of mind she was anything but safe around him. Plus Spike as protector would be totally useless. His crypt is under survaillance so if Warren were to show up he can't do anything (Warren is human). If Dark Willow comes by well...flame on.

Either way taking Dawn to Spike is nonsense and actually despicable. You don't take your underaged, virginal sister to your attempted rapist. The hell?

Personally I have no issues with Xander telling her about it. Dawn's safety trumps Buffy's secrecy any day of the week. Did it come out right? Hell no. But again when you have your friend run amok in grief, your other friend almost raped and trying to protect a bunch of losers from getting killed...talk about being under major stress. And then you get hit with a whammy like what Dawn said to him. I doubt most people in that situation would say it the right way.


To get back more on topic. I think high school Xander would drive me up a wall. I can't stand judgemental hypocrites with verbal diarrhea and who are also verbally abusive to those they think can take it. Post high school he might have been useless and limited to his relationship with Anya but I actually think that's the better Xander. He's the one character that for me comes out looking good at the end of the show. Writer's negligence was actually a blessing in disguise for his character when one considers what was done to those they paid attention to (Buffy, Willow and to a lesser extend Giles). He didn't lose some of those high school traits but he mellowed some and being relegated to a background prop (especially in S7) was actually a good thing in his case.