Slash

[bespangeled]

I grew up back during ST - TOS first run - went to the actual fan run conventions - met a few of the stars - and devoured slash fanfic. We had our war - not a ship but the entire armada. There were fans who hit slash fanfic with all the passion that is now reserved for gay marriage, demons in the media, and Armageddon . We were going to burn in hell if we wrote or read it, or approved of it, or sat too close to it. There were huge arguments between BNFs at cons. It was really great, actually. Since I was fairly lowly - though I did work with Jean Lorrah and Jacqueline Lichtenburg - I could just sit back and watch.

That is my early history with slash. I am told that if it appears on the internet it will be slashed, which brings a whole new meaning to "Wow, look at that toaster!" And I believe that there are slash pairing of just about every character in the B-verse, including Clem and Lorne. There are a few I really enjoy - though except for Tillow and Spangel none are canon. I don't see much slash actually happening - at least not my other pairings. But sometimes a writer can make the characters seem so authentic that you can really see what it would be if it did happen.

So - what do you think of slash? Are their any pairings you like? Dislike? Hate? Is it possible that - other than Willow and Tara - certain characters could fall hard for each other? Could share one night? Could be friends with benefits? Any port in a storm?

Keep in mind that some slash takes place a fair amount of time after NFA - so the fact that both Dawn and Connor are paired with others doesn't squick.

(If you need to know what squick is - think Cordy and Connor. Sorry but someone had to say because we were all thinking it!😀 )

 

[Silverspike]

Well for me slashing means pairing up same sex characters, so Cordy/Conner wouldn't fit my take on the idea.

But....my slash favs are, Angel/Spike, Giles/Spike, Wes/Spike, (I'm seeing a theme here 😀) Wes/Giles, Ethan/Giles, Xander/Spike, Riley/Spike, Riley/Angel, etc, etc....🙂

If It's well written and features any of the above I'll read it.

 

[bespangeled]

Well for me slashing means pairing up same sex characters, so Cordy/Conner wouldn't fit my take on the idea.

But....my slash favs are, Angel/Spike, Giles/Spike, Wes/Spike, (I'm seeing a theme here 😀) Wes/Giles, Ethan/Giles, Xander/Spike, Riley/Spike, Riley/Angel, etc, etc....🙂

If It's well written and features any of the above I'll read it.

No - Cordy/Connor is just squick, not slash at all.

We have many of the same pairings. I like the main male characters in various combinations. I've read very little with Xander or Ethan. It's not the sex at this point - there are limited ways to engage slot and tab and it gets dull. I like the window into the two lives - and how they interact. Spike and Angel have complex history. Wesley and Giles both have dangerous sides. Ethan and Giles. - all of that.

Have you ever, by any chance read Tea and Biscuits? An RP set after season 5 in an AU where Buffy doesn't come back - it has more than one of your pairings.

How does one ship without writing or reading? Or making art? Just suddenly occurred to me.

 

[Silverspike]

"I've read very little with Xander or Ethan"

Oh I have, well I have read more spander then Ethan fics, but I have read a few. Mainly written by Estepheia on live journal, who used to write some mean Ethan/Giles fics, as well as Spander, Sadly she nolonger writes for the fandom, like so many others these days it seems. *sigh*.

No I haven't read Tea and Biscuits weirdly enough. My main authors used to be shapinglight, ladycat777 and as well as a good few others I can't for the life of me remember the names of now. 😀

"How does one ship without writing or reading? Or making art? Just suddenly occurred to me."

Oh you can just ship in your head I suppose. You don't have to create to do so imo. 🙂

 

[pixiedreams]

I like reading slash, I read it more than Het or FemSlash. My favorite pairings are Spike/Xander and Angel/Xander. I used to like Spangel, but lost interest.

 

[thetopher]

I actually rarely 'see' slash relationships in many genre shows because I'm not really looking for them, either male or female - there are the classics of course: Kirk/Spock (OS not the reboot), Xena/Gabrielle, Hercules/Aeolous, Janaway/Seven, etc. and that's how I discovered the whole concept.

There are some other good ones- Sherlock/Watson from BBC 'Sherlock' series (very much lampshaded even after John gets a wife 🙂 ), a couple of Torchwood ones (not Ianto/Jack. Good god no...creepy little stalker) mainly Jack/John Hart.

And not just tv shows either. When I was younger I got involved reading (and writing) lots of comic femslash; Harley/Ivy, Wonder Woman/any other DC chick ever, Black Canary/Oracle. Some Marvel stuff too- but that tends to be more maleslash heavy because of the lack of interesting/strong female characters outside of the X-Men.


About half the ones that appear on Buffy fanfic I just don't see. For me a tv slash ship should work be based on two things (to one degree or another): friendship/camaraderie and sexual chemistry.
I prefer slashing to explore a realtionship that already exists to some degree- or if its realy well done to explore a ship that should've been explored more.
Giles/Ethan is a classic example- there's so much deep history there.

I've read plenty of good Angel slash, most of it pairing him either with Lindsey (I read a really good 'what-if' one that took the premise that Lindsey chose AI over W&H in 'Blind Date' and became a sort-of good guy. He and Angel quickly hooked up. 😀) or Wesley. Although I do see the appeal of Spangel after seeing S5.

I don't see any slash Spike pairing apart from Angel. It's just... he's never that close to any other guy on either show. Spike is too wrapped up in female relationships.
The Summers clan, Dru, Anya, Harmony, Fred/Illyria, even Willow. I see any of them more than Spike/Xander or Spike/random guy.
But Spike/Angel works well on many levels since their journey's mirror each other quite a bit.

I agree that if it has Buffy-hate in it I lose interest. In fact I rarely like a slash pairing that goes out of its way to slam an actual pairing. It shows really weak writing. A pairing should stand up on its own without tearing down anything else.

I can't see Buffy slashing with anybody except Faith or possibly Satsu- there just isn't any romantic chemistry there otherwise. And I've read some truly beautiful Fuffy fanfic out there. I think it works so well because Faith and Buffy are such complex characters and the whole slayer connection is left unexplored by the show.

On the other hand Faith works with just about anybody, guy or girl- Xander, Willow, Spike, Angel, Wes, Cordelia, Lilah but mainly clicks with Buffy. 😀

I haven't seen any decent Willow/Kennedy fics, it's all Tillow all the time as far as I can see- probably because of the tragic end to it.

I can't say that their are any slash pairings that I hate exactly- how can you get worked up over something non-existant?- but there are certainly ones that boil down to 'I just want to imagine these two hot people doing naughty things to each other'.
On one level I get that but I also find it really kind of boring after a certain point- I like my pairing to have BOTH elements. 🙂

 

[Blaze]

I tend to dislike anything that isn't cannon UNLESS there is huge subtexts to it (like Buffy and Faith). Some pairings I just can't see at all, like Xander/Spike. Those just don't make sense to me. I just can't seem to ship something that has no subtexts behind, but again some people might say the same thing about Fuffy, yet I see it. I'm sure some authors out there could convince me if they wrote a really good story, but I usually just won't seek those stories because it's not a pairing that I ship.

So I guess to answer the question, I don't mind slash, but usually I stick to pairings that I think are believable, or pairings that are made cannon.

 

[bespangeled]

"I've read very little with Xander or Ethan"

Oh I have, well I have read more spander then Ethan fics, but I have read a few. Mainly written by Estepheia on live journal, who used to write some mean Ethan/Giles fics, as well as Spander, Sadly she nolonger writes for the fandom, like so many others these days it seems. *sigh*.

No I haven't read Tea and Biscuits weirdly enough. My main authors used to be shapinglight, ladycat777 and as well as a good few others I can't for the life of me remember the names of now. 😀

"How does one ship without writing or reading? Or making art? Just suddenly occurred to me."

Oh you can just ship in your head I suppose. You don't have to create to do so imo. 🙂

I just sent you the link. Come to the dark side.... 

I like reading slash, I read it more than Het or FemSlash. My favorite pairings are Spike/Xander and Angel/Xander. I used to like Spangel, but lost interest.

There are some excellent Spangel stories out there, but not many new ones. I still love Spangel but that's more a matter of the lovely long history, so sex isn't necessary always. I have read some Spander, and it can be really well written but find it hard to fit it into the universe. Now, Wesley and Giles I have fewer problems with but that's because there's generally a specific time. most Spike/Giles starts when Buffy is dead and they are the only two adults. Spike and Wesley have a few openings, but dark!Wesley and newly souled Spike make a very interesting pairing. 

I actually rarely 'see' slash relationships in many genre shows because I'm not really looking for them, either male or female - there are the classics of course: Kirk/Spock (OS not the reboot), Xena/Gabrielle, Hercules/Aeolous, Janaway/Seven, etc. and that's how I discovered the whole concept.

There are some other good ones- Sherlock/Watson from BBC 'Sherlock' series (very much lampshaded even after John gets a wife 🙂 ), a couple of Torchwood ones (not Ianto/Jack. Good god no...creepy little stalker) mainly Jack/John Hart.

And not just tv shows either. When I was younger I got involved reading (and writing) lots of comic femslash; Harley/Ivy, Wonder Woman/any other DC chick ever, Black Canary/Oracle. Some Marvel stuff too- but that tends to be more maleslash heavy because of the lack of interesting/strong female characters outside of the X-Men.


About half the ones that appear on Buffy fanfic I just don't see. For me a tv slash ship should work be based on two things (to one degree or another): friendship/camaraderie and sexual chemistry.
I prefer slashing to explore a realtionship that already exists to some degree- or if its realy well done to explore a ship that should've been explored more.
Giles/Ethan is a classic example- there's so much deep history there.

I've read plenty of good Angel slash, most of it pairing him either with Lindsey (I read a really good 'what-if' one that took the premise that Lindsey chose AI over W&H in 'Blind Date' and became a sort-of good guy. He and Angel quickly hooked up. 😀) or Wesley. Although I do see the appeal of Spangel after seeing S5.

I don't see any slash Spike pairing apart from Angel. It's just... he's never that close to any other guy on either show. Spike is too wrapped up in female relationships.
The Summers clan, Dru, Anya, Harmony, Fred/Illyria, even Willow. I see any of them more than Spike/Xander or Spike/random guy.
But Spike/Angel works well on many levels since their journey's mirror each other quite a bit.

I agree that if it has Buffy-hate in it I lose interest. In fact I rarely like a slash pairing that goes out of its way to slam an actual pairing. It shows really weak writing. A pairing should stand up on its own without tearing down anything else.

I can't see Buffy slashing with anybody except Faith or possibly Satsu- there just isn't any romantic chemistry there otherwise. And I've read some truly beautiful Fuffy fanfic out there. I think it works so well because Faith and Buffy are such complex characters and the whole slayer connection is left unexplored by the show.

On the other hand Faith works with just about anybody, guy or girl- Xander, Willow, Spike, Angel, Wes, Cordelia, Lilah but mainly clicks with Buffy. 😀

I haven't seen any decent Willow/Kennedy fics, it's all Tillow all the time as far as I can see- probably because of the tragic end to it.

I can't say that their are any slash pairings that I hate exactly- how can you get worked up over something non-existant?- but there are certainly ones that boil down to 'I just want to imagine these two hot people doing naughty things to each other'.
On one level I get that but I also find it really kind of boring after a certain point- I like my pairing to have BOTH elements. 🙂

Giles/Ethan is a thing of beauty - hell, I still love watching Giles coolly and dispassionately, and very brutally beating the crap out of Ethan to get him to reveal the way to break the Janus spell. In fact, I love to watch all their interactions in large part because of that history - because Ethan brings out Ripper. Like you said - layers!

Spangel - for me - is Ethan/Giles on steroids. More time, more angst....vampires with long life spans and a whole lotta baggage. I really love the last scene in Why We Fight. Only one person can fully understand that, and can give some sort of context if not comfort, and that's Spike. I love the picture of both of them looking out the window.

I can ship others - but it has to be due to certain circumstances and at certain times. My disbelief will suspend if I can trust the author to create a believable picture. But I am far more likely to drop that story if there are enough false notes, or if it gets dull. And while I really can't stand anybody bashing - I also have a very low tolerance for true love forever. I don't want either man to be passive, submissive - a child or a 50's housewife. So Spike/Giles makes sense to me If Buffy is dead and never coming back. We do know Giles was with Ethan and Spike was with Angel so neither one is rabidly hetero.

There are a few pairings I don't find attract me at all, and some others I just can't see working.

 

[Blaze]

We do know Giles was with Ethan

Woah wait what? This isn't cannon is it? Cause if it is I massively missed something while watching the show for the first 30 times lol

 

[bespangeled]

Woah wait what? This isn't cannon is it? Cause if it is I massively missed something while watching the show for the first 30 times lol

Well, it is never directly said. It could be that they were just into drug abuse, demon raising, and beating each other as desired....and never touched each other below the belt....at least not in a fun way. 😀

 

[SiegePerilous02]

Slash is kind of weird to me. Not that I don't support canon queer relationships in my favorite media, because I do: Willow/Tara, and various anime gay couples like Sailor Uranus/Sailor Neptune and Utena/Anthy, among others. But subtext has always seemed like people projecting what they want onto the characters. It especially seems to happen a lot with female characters when their male love interests aren't very well liked by the fans. Buffy herself is subject to this, along with Wonder Woman, Sailor Moon and others. Basically, Xena/Gabrielle is the only subtext heavy relationship (but never out right confirmed) I can get behind because it was SO blatant and neither one had a regular male S.O. To each their own, and I respect it, because who doesn't want to see two (or more😉) fictional pretty people of their choice having sex? But when some of the more vocal fans (nobody here) insist that this view of the character is the only legitimate one, I tune right out.

Angel and Spike totally banged though. I think Spike just acts so pissy because Angelus was always tops😛

 

[thetopher]

Fuffy Baith: Faith and Cordy? I can't see that. Faith and Willow is more likely.


I never saw it either really, until I read a pretty good (and surprisingly sappy) fic with them in set during S3. After 'Revelations'/'Lover's Walk' both of them are on the outs with the Scooby's, feeling betrayed, ostracized by the group and start to bond.

In certain ways they're quite similar characters- both really good at reading people, blunt/brutality honest with everybody else except themselves, both of them exist in the shade of Buffy's orbit, and both represent a 'road not taken' by Buffy whether it be 'popular girl' or 'rogue slayer'.

Doesn't really get around the fact that Cordelia is almost certainly the straightest girl on the show, and also that these two barely speak two lines to each other for the length of both series. 😉
In a way I like the idea of them more becoming friends if Faith had somehow stayed on Angel's show. That's more interesting to me that smooching because I really felt that both Cordelia or Faith had a good female friend they could talk to about stuff- they could've been that for each other. 🙂

 

[SiegePerilous02]

In a way I like the idea of them more becoming friends if Faith had somehow stayed on Angel's show. That's more interesting to me that smooching because I really felt that both Cordelia or Faith had a good female friend they could talk to about stuff- they could've been that for each other. 🙂

I think Fred was that for Cordelia, though unfortunately I can't think of many conversations between them that didn't involve Fred brainwashing her into thinking she romantically loved Angel😛🙁 (Lorne was working the same mojo on the big man himself)