Slayer Calling?

[Amber Benson]

I think I may have discovered a little mix up... Either that, or I'm really slow... Which is a possibility...

Anyway, when Buffy died the second time, at the end of Season 5, she was never "replaced" by another Slayer (that I can remember, help me out), because Faith was "technically" the active Slayer, and I was under the understanding that you can only be replaced once, since you're only SUPPOSED to die once.

NOW, in Season 7, durning the episode "Potential", she tells the Potentials that when she dies, one of them will be activated as the new Slayer...

Where do you think they went wrong? Because if that statement is true, then there should be another "active" Slayer out there, besides Buffy and Faith...

 

[Spike My Darlin]

I chalk it up to as Buffy telling them the grim reality of what being a Slayer really is. She didn't mean that if she was killed, one of them would be activated.

Now if she was telling the truth and there were 3 active Slayers, the third was most likely made mince meat by a Bringer.

 

[Amber Benson]

Yea... I just don't like lose ends... Lose ends are a pet-peeve of mine... I need to know EVERYTHING 😀

But yea, that makes sense that she probably said all that as a way to make them understand the seriousness of the Legacy... Could have gotten a little difficult for her to explain everything... The episodes are only so long 😛

 

[The Arcane]

I can't remember exactly where i saw it but i'm pretty certain that there is another thread somewhere around here that discusses this topic in a lot more depth. It was a while ago that i read it though so again i'm not certain what section i saw it in, sorry.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

This topic has been around ALOT (let me furthur stress ALOT). It's gotten very heated in the past and I can see that happening in the future as well, for this topic has lots of speculation about.

Let me see if I can find the links to the other threads that discussed this and you can take your discussion from there.

https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=19612

 

[nerd4hire]

I'll run down the Basics of either arguement for you.

There are 2 sides. The first side claims Season 7 doesn't make sense unless Buffy's death by mystical forces and rebirth in Season 6, resulted in the slayer line once more running through Buffy. It may also continue to run through Faith, but Season 7 tells us the line now runs, at least through Buffy.

The other side of the arguement tells us "No. The slayer line runs through Faith and only Faith until Faith dies. All the inconsistencies in Season 7 when you believe this don't matter, because they were just the writers making mistakes. Joss and other writers have stated in interviews, the line can only run through Faith. That's all that matters.

I'll outline the intricacies of the arguements for you.

Slayer line alters in Season 7 camp.

* Joss made a statement in an interview where he said he didn't understand the problem some people had with Season 7, because it was "didactic in it's clarity". This is important I think, because what Joss appears to be saying is "believe what you see in Season 7"

* It isn't just Buffy who says the line now runs through Buffy in Season 7. It's also Dawn and The First, and it is perhaps implicit in the words or actions of Giles, Anya, Willow and Xander.

* We know the "Faith only" rule to be false, because at the end of Season 7 the slayer line goes all over the place.

* Beljoxa's eye tells us distinctly there is a "disruption in the slayer line".

* Giles tells us the "disruption in the slayer line" was caused by Buffy coming back from the dead. Anya tells us it was a result of the spell her and Tara cast.

* If the disruption in the line does not have something to do with Buffy, then why does the First want to kill Faith, and keep Buffy alive.

* There is no interview, or verifiable statement from Joss, or any of the writers after Season 6, stating the line can only run through Faith. Joss said it pre-season 6. Marti Noxon said it way before that, but I've never seen such a statement that would cover Season 7, nor to I believe one exists. Someone always says they know of one, but they can never produce it.

Only Faith is and can ever be the one true slayer arguement

* One of the writers (they're never sure exactly who) said (they can never tell you where) that only Faith could ever be the real slayer. They said this after Season 6. Don't ask for a link to the information, because if you do you're being a child.

* Everything in Season 7 that seems to suggests the contrary is just writer error.

* The fact that Season 7 makes sense if you believe the slayer line has been corrupted and changed after The Bargaining doesn't matter. It's better to believe the line can only run through Faith just because it is. It doesn't matter if we know the slayer line can be altered from Chosen. Ignore that.

 

[The Arcane]

Thanks for that Nerd4hire, it saved me a lot of re-reading! 🙂

It reminded me of something i saw a while back at All Things Philosophical. This is just another fan opinion really but it is pretty much the way i understood the slayerline issue of season seven to be explained.

Having said that i doubt it will ever be conclusively known if the line had been reverted back to buffy or if it still ran through Faith, especially as the slayerline is technically no more. It's more of a slayer community these days, hehe.

 

[LadyLavinia]

This is my take on the situation:

The Slayer line ran through Buffy, until her first death in "Prophecy Girl" (S1). Then it ran through Kendra, until her death in "Bargaining, Part 1" (S2). Then the Slayer line ran through Faith, until Buffy and Willow changed the Slayer line in "Chosen" (S7). That's it. I'll put Buffy's comments to the Potentials as an error on her part.

 

[nerd4hire]

Then it ran through Kendra, until her death in "Bargaining, Part 1" (S2).

I think you made a whoopsy here LL. You meant to say Becoming Part 1, right? That's OK. Just edit it. That's what I do. 🙂

Moving on though...

I'm going to let the cat out of the bag as to which side of the arguement I'm on, by telling you, I disagree with the fan opinion in that All Things Pholosophical link.

The problem with excusing away the Buffy statement "the line passes through her" as teacher-student editorializing is it isn't only Buffy who makes that claim in Season 7.

The First says it when it says something to Buffy like "none of that wanna slay brigade will know real power unless you die."

Dawn makes a statement suggesting Buffy would have to die for her to be called, when she thinks she's a Potential. It's implied Willow, Xander, and Anya agree, because they're in the room and they don't challenge Dawn on this.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I think we need to start a letter writing campaign to Joss to get him to come on here and settle this once and for all 😀

 

[The Arcane]

The problem with excusing away the Buffy statement "the line passes through her" as teacher-student editorializing is it isn't only Buffy who makes that claim in Season 7.

The First says it when it says something to Buffy like "none of that wanna slay brigade will know real power unless you die."

Dawn makes a statement suggesting Buffy would have to die for her to be called, when she thinks she's a Potential. It's implied Willow, Xander, and Anya agree, because they're in the room and they don't challenge Dawn on this.

It's funny actually but if i remember correctly it was never actually stated anywhere in the series dialogue by anyone at all that Buffy dying a second time wouldn't activate a third slayer. I don't think the topic was ever addressed at all by the characters until the discussion between Dawn and the others in Potential that Nerd4Hire just mentioned.

The only reason i always believed that Buffy had played her part in the slayerline by activating Kendra was due to numerous comments made by Joss in various interviews he did after The Gift and before Bargaining. Obviously the question of whether there would be yet another slayer appearing in season six was raised several times after Buffy died again and Joss always said that this would not be the case as Buffy had already called her replacement in Kendra. The fact that this was never directly addressed on screen never seemed important at the time. It's a shame it never was though because if it had been stated one way or another we wouldn't be left guessing now!

 

[nerd4hire]

It's funny actually but if i remember correctly it was never actually stated anywhere in the series dialogue by anyone at all that Buffy dying a second time wouldn't activate a third slayer. I don't think the topic was ever addressed at all by the characters until the discussion between Dawn and the others in Potential that Nerd4Hire just mentioned.

Yeah the closest thing to it I can think of is when Cordelia explains her interpretation of how the slayer line happened to pass into Faith.

Sometimes people say this suggests Buffy and the Scoobs are making statements in Season 7 suggesting the slayer line passes through Buffy, because that's what the characters believe. Fans of the "only through Faith" arguement suggest the characters make statements in Season 7 about the slayer-line passing through Buffy, because they don't know any better.

Why does this only happen in Season 7 though? Then there's that "didactic in it's clarity" quote Joss made concerning S-7

The only reason i always believed that Buffy had played her part in the slayerline by activating Kendra was due to numerous comments made by Joss in various interviews he did after The Gift and before Bargaining.

Seriously? Numerous? I remember that one where the cast and crew met reporters together. You're talking about the remark where he said the slayer-line has to pass through Faith, or something like that, right? I believe it was shortly after, or before the Gift. You say there are many others? Do you mean others that say Joss stated the line could only pass through Faith? If so, got a few links? I want to make it perfectly clear what's said concerning any kind of quote thing, because otherwise those quotes get misquoted, trust me.

 

[The Arcane]

Yeah the closest thing to it I can think of is when Cordelia explains her interpretation of how the slayer line happened to pass into Faith.

Yeah, there was that wasn't there. I was actually meaning that it was a shame it was never discussed during season six after Buffy had been brought back the second time. You would have thought given the fact that Buffy had died again there would have been some kind of Watchers Council investigation into whether a new slayer was activated or not. At the very least they could have had Giles mention the possibility or lack thereof.

Sometimes people say this suggests Buffy and the Scoobs are making statements in Season 7 suggesting the slayer line passes throug Buffy, because that's what they believe, but it's not true.

Why does this only happen in Season 7 though? Then there's that "didactic in it's clarity" quote Joss made concerning S - 7

That's exactly what i mean. Surely the events of What's My Line should have prompted at least one of the Scoobies to question why another slayer had never appear after The Gift. Regardless of that though, it has to be at least a possibility that the Scoobies were all under the erroneous impression that Buffy's death would call another slayer. It could be said that they were all just working on the assumption that this was the case whether it was or not.

Seriously? Numerous? I remember that one where the cast and crew met reporters together. I believe it was shortly after the Gift. You say there many otherers? Got a few links? I'm a serious student of the issue, and I'm going to start collecting them.

Sorry to get you excited for nothing Nerd4Hire but i think you misunderstood my last post (probably due to the fact i worded it very badly having now read it back again).

When i said "numerous" i was referring to the fact that i had read the slayerline comment from Joss in many articles. Putting "various interviews" maybe gave you the idea i was talking about seperate comments made at different times rather than the fact i had read several articles written about the same comments from the source you have already mentioned. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[nerd4hire]

Regardless of that though, it has to be at least a possibility that the Scoobies were all under the erroneous impression that Buffy's death would call another slayer. It could be said that they were all just working on the assumption that this was the case whether it was or not.

Sure it's possible. You can also say the reason The First says to Buffy the line passes through her is because it's trying to mind-trick her, but here's one of my main beefs I always used to have with the "Only through Faith" guys. They can come up with all these elaborate explanations for why we shouldn't believe the things the characters say, but they can't tell me why we should?

Again Joss says S-7 is "didactic in it's clarity". He says we should believe what we see and hear, take it at face value like a book of instructions.

If we're required to disbelieve what the characters in S-7 say, then where can we find something we can believe that tells us Faith is the one, true slayer.

The line changing to Buffy in S-7 makes everything make sense. I suddenly know what Beljoxa's eye meant by a disruption in the slayer line. I know why The First wanted to kill Faith, and leave Buffy alive.

If Faith is still the slayer nothing makes sense. So why should I try to make excuses to prove the statements of the characters in S-7 false when Joss tells me not to, and things make less sense when I do.

 

[Amber Benson]

Hmm... I can see it's heating up... But my mind is settled... So, I'm good to go 😀

 

[eponinethen]

This thread again, lol. I've only been here for five months and I've already seen it three or four times 😀

Anyway, after discussing this many many times I kinda have the same opinion about this as nerd4hire. Considering "all" things we "know" that's just the theory that makes most sense to me.
I used to believe the S7 mentionings of Buffy carrying the line, were just mistakes or something they said to make things less complicated. But I decided to believe everything they say on the show unless they give me real reason not to believe it. I mean, I take for granted that there aren't any mistakes and that what we hear is the truth. Just like what Cordelia says about the slayer line in Faith, Hope & Trick, is true and wouldn't have been more true if Giles or someone else said it. Simply because there is no reason why they would explain such a thing to us if it weren't the "truth".

 

[The Arcane]

I should point out here that i'm not disagreeing with Nerd4Hire or anyone else's opinion on this. They all make as much sense as each other. Ultimately a theory, whether it be mine or anybody else's, is just that, a theory. There is sufficient evidence to both help prove and disprove both sides of this debate so it boils down to which evidence you personally see as being stronger.

Like i said before, it would be nice to have some definate information rather than having to piece together bits of evidence from various sources. I think it's fair to say that the writers should have made the slayerline situation a lot clearer, maybe to the point of clarifying exactly what Beljoxa's Eye actually meant by "disruption". Had Giles looked into this further they could have discovered that Willow's spell to resurrect Buffy actually had made her the active slayer again as a side effect. At least then it wouldn't have been left as such a loose end.

 

[Spike My Darlin]

I'm niether a Buffy-Only or Faith-Only person. They are both Slayers.

Buffy is not a Slayer, she is THE Slayer. Superior in every capacity to Faith. But the line already went through Buffy and on to Faith but because of a flook Buffy continues to be. If Buffy is the line that all future Slayers must go through then we should have seen a 3rd Slayer. If one Slayer is a good to go up agianst the First, 2 is even better, then 3 should be a great idea. The Council would certianly have known about a third, this third one would know and so would her Watcher, but no 3rd Slayer is mentioned or seen. As for what she said to the Potentials about her having to die for a Potential to be promoted, it was true it just happened several years earlier when she died the first time and Kendra was promoted, it was also a grim fact she was telling them. As for why The First & Caleb wanted Buffy alive and not Faith, Faith is inferior to Buffy, Buffy is the best of the best and he wanted to defeat the best good had to throw at it, not some second rate Slayer.

 

[nerd4hire]

I should reiterate, according to the "believe what Season 7 tells you" theory, we have to listen to Anya when she tells us all the woes of S-7 were began as a result of the spell done at the beginning of Season 6. This happened in the Bargaining 1 after Season 5's The Gift, and after the single line interview response in which Joss said there would not be a third slayer as a result of the Gift, because the slayer line passed through Faith at that point.

Joss said this before Season 6, but here it is (I believe he's being asked if Buffy's dying in The Gift means there will be a third slayer in Season 6.):

JOSS WHEDON: It does not in fact. The line now runs through Faith.

http://www.vampiresandslayers.com/buffy_2.htm

 

[Spike My Darlin]

I should reiterate, according to the "believe what Season 7 tells you" theory, we have to listen to Anya when she tells us all the woes of S-7 were began as a result of the spell done at the beginning of Season 6. This happened in the Bargaining 1 after Season 5's The Gift, and after the single line interview response in which Joss said there would not be a third slayer as a result of the Gift, because the slayer line passed through Faith at that point.

Joss said this before Season 6, but here it is (I believe he's being asked if Buffy's dying in The Gift means there will be a third slayer in Season 6.):



http://www.vampiresandslayers.com/buffy_2.htm

That was the entire point of the 3rd Slayer part of my post. There can't be a 3rd because Faith didn't die and then live.