Smashed: Spuffy victory or not?

faeriegrrl27

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Smashed is a key episode in that it's the first time Buffy and Spike have sex, quite literally bringing the house down.

But is this something that makes the Spuffiers happy? Should the consummation of the most amazing ship really be so violent? Were the writers lazy and did this just to get them together? Was in in character for either/both of them?

Or was it absolutely a beautiful episode? Did Buffy finally giving into Spike express the anguish she felt at being back? Was it in character for Spike to beat up Buffy as soon as he found out he could?

Personally, I *love* Smashed. I love that Spuffy finally gets together. And I love how it happens. It doesn't seem out of character to me at all. Buffy was hurting from being back. Spike made her hurt worse by insinuating that she came back wrong. She hit him. She had to let out all the frustration and rage. And then it seemed like the most natural thing to do was boink him. She was trying to feel something and kicking his ass just wasn't enough. So she took it to a new level. And then joined them and bingo! You have a house falling down.

I'm writing in a rush now, so I'll probably be more eloquent later on, but I'm just wondering: as Spuffyers, do you like the episode Smashed or not?
 
I like the episode "Smashed". Its dark but the scene you mentioned is an extremely hot scene and is a crucial part in the development of Spuffy.

As usual i enjoy hearing Buffy and Spike spar not just with their fists but also with what they say. For me it was an entertaining episode.
 
I love smashed. Well, the episode is okay... But I love the fight between Spike and Buffy and the end result of the fight.

HotHotHot.

I was waiting for them to hook up since Season 4, and boy was I not disappointed in this scene! I remember going to school the next day and talking about it with my best friend all day long!

My friend wasn't a Spuffy until that episode, so I wonder how many people it converted?
 
I love this episode for obvious reasons. Like you, dan, I always loved their verbal sparing. Even though I knew eventually the tension would become too much for them not to "boink" each other (as faeriegrrl so eloquently puts it), I must say, I was kinda surprised by it when it happened. Like, "Woah! Now? Right now? You're gonna do this right n-- Oh... oh, ok. Well now!"

Oh, and I love that grin of Spike's right after he hits Buffy and realizes that it doesn't hurt him anymore. I swear, those cheekbones could cut cheese!
 
S
StarSlayer
Lol, "Well now!" Good way to put it!
When I first watched it, I was in disbelief. I honestly wasn't sure how I felt about Smashed. I had to watch the next episode right away. Like I thought it was a big weight coming off their shoulders. There was so much sexual tension! After in dawned on me what they did, I was happy for them. At the same time...I kind of knew it was just for kicks for Buffy. I wanted to be more romantically inclined toward each other. It was mostly angry.

But all together, I was cheering for them 😀
 
I have mixed emotions about "Smashed." First off, the first time, in the middle of what turned out to be their last fight scene of the entire series, (and I truly loved their fight scenes, even though I am fully aware that a part of the action was stunt doubles, the parts where it was actually Sarah and James were choreographed so perfectly that it looked almost like a dance, and they always seemed, to me at least, as though they were actually enjoying the action) Buffy finally acknowledges what James had been playing from the first moment in his first scene with Sarah: the underlying element of sexual energy that passed between the two characters. Secondly, though we didn't know it at that time, "Smashed" marked the end of the bond of real friendship that Buffy and Spike had formed in the latter part of Season 5, and that had developed much more during the earlier episodes of Season 6. He was the one who she trusted to protect and care for Dawn "if she didn't make it" after her confrontation with Glory. He was the one who she trusted not to tell the others about her time in Heaven. He was the one who she went to when the weight of being both "Mama Buffy" and the, as far as we ever saw, sole bread earner in a house occupied by 3 other perfectly healthy women, all of whom were perfectly aware of her financial difficulties, and any or all of whom were perfectly capable of finding some sort of wage earning occupation in order to share the household expenses. He was the one who covered her back on patrol. From "Smashed" on, Spike became simply Buffy's sex toy, and her dirty little secret, and she used him in that capacity quite extensively, as an escape from the pain and drudgery of her not so normal life. The first nail in the coffin lid of whatever tender feelings that Buffy had begun to feel for Spike was signified by their crashing through the floor of that abandoned house. From there through the end of the season, and on into the first part of Season 7, the friendship and trust that they had built so slowly ceased to be.

(I could go on into the resurrection of that friendship (whether intentionally on the part of Joss and the writers, or purely by accident is anyone's guess, but I find it both significant and ironic that their friendship and finally Buffy's acceptance of her actual romantic feelings for Spike, began once more in a basement, where it had been symbolically buried the season before but that would be off topic for this thread, and I am making a conscious effort NOT to do that so much anymore.)
 
MandaMeena
MandaMeena
Well said!
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
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M
Ms.Trick
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StarSlayer
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This is hard for me I like smashed and think it was a good episode and a good start to their relationship. It was what it was at this time. I just prefer their more sweet moments 😉
But I will say this was a good start and the scene was hot just like Spuffy.
 
I always really quite enjoy Smashed. It's hot and sexy and kinda inappropriate but also kind of inevitable. Buffy and Spike had been skirting this for a while and I quite like that it is not a traditional seduction. Things get said, fists get thrown and a whole house gets knocked down. I certainly don't think that it is lazy writing - I think it is clever writing because it really is the most acceptable way that their attraction to one another to be explored - Mushy, romantic feelings would have been wrong at that point in time. And best of all, it allowed the complexity of Buffy and Spike - one of the major reasons why I love their story - to develop deeper.
 
I remember reading some time ago, that the writers (or just Jane E. can't really remember) went to Joss and asked him to let them write Buffy and Spike dating, actually go out on a date, and Joss said something like: "Nah... let them have sex". And the writer(s) were so excited!

Another fun fact about that scene, the writer of this episode (his name has popped out of my head... Drew something), it was his first episode of 'Buffy'. And when the other writers heard that he's the one who's gonna write THE sex scene (and the entire episode of course), they were all jealous. I think he did a pretty good job, because I LOVE this scene. The rest of the episode is nothing special, but it's worth watching it just for the ending!
 
But is this something that makes the Spuffiers happy?

No, I wouldn't say so. The first time I saw it, I was excited, because I knew it was the *beginning* but I had a feeling there were tough times ahead for my 'ship. They came together out of anger and rage, not affection and love. Buffy wanted to feel, and Spike was desperate for anything he could get. It was dysfunctional, desctrutive, not to mention dangerous. Spike's chip didn't work on her, and he didn't have a soul and Buffy had no place trusting him.

Every Slayer has a death wish. Even you.


Perhaps sleeping wit Spike as a way for Buffy to take a risk. Maybe risking her life, as well as sleeping with him, mde her feel something. Or maybe she didn't even care if he killed her.

Should the consummation of the most amazing ship really be so violent?

Yes and no. I think Spuffy's experience in Smashed was very fitting for the 'ship. The sex was a symbolic manifestation of their relatonship up that point. Think about it, Spuffy has always been about violence. They've tried to kill each other. When he was initally attracted to her, a lot of it had to do with wanting to kill her. The whole point of Smashed was to show us the raw passion that exists with this couple. Uncontrollable and dangerous. They become so lost in each other they don't even notice the house falling around them (Buffy notices it the next morning). Also important to note that Buffy's "addiction" to Spike is meant to be similar to Willow's addiction to magic. For both Willow and Buffy, their addictions are damaging, but they can't stop.

Were the writers lazy and did this just to get them together? Was in in character for either/both of them?

No, the writers werent lazy - they were brilliant. This scene fits with the "theme" os Spuffy very well, and like I said, I think is very fitting for the two.

Yes, I believe it was in character for Spike to fight with her once he knew he could hurt her. He wasn't trying to kill her - he was just having a little brawl. They were blowing off some steam. He knew he couldn't REALLY hurt her. She's the Slayer, after all. SHE was the one who initiated the sex by kissing him. The shocked look on his face proves he wasn't thinking that was a possibility at all. For Spike, fighting is like foreplay, but I know he wasn't expecting sex at all. He figured she'd win the fight and as usual, kick him to the curb.

Yet, Spike is an opportnitst when it comes to Buffy, and he wasn't going to turn her down, was he? When you love someone, close oximity is a postive thing 😉

Or was it absolutely a beautiful episode? Did Buffy finally giving into Spike express the anguish she felt at being back? Was it in character for Spike to beat up Buffy as soon as he found out he could?

To be honest, I'm not a fan of the overall episode. It's not that good. When I rewatch I usually just ship to the end scene. I hate the whole Willow being addicted to magic storyline. *rolls eyes*

Did Buffy giving in to Spike express the anguish she felt at being back? Yes, absolutely. Spike was a way for her to feel. She wanted him, there had always been something between them, an attraction (he was right about that in FFL) and this was an opportuity where she could use that to he advantage. Let everything go and just do what she wanted. Leave the logic behind and let her body do what it wanted. She no longer cared that it was "wrong" for her to be interested in a soul-less vampire. She just simply didn't care. It's called depression and Buffy had it.


Personally, I *love* Smashed. I love that Spuffy finally gets together. And I love how it happens. It doesn't seem out of character to me at all. Buffy was hurting from being back. Spike made her hurt worse by insinuating that she came back wrong. She hit him. She had to let out all the frustration and rage. And then it seemed like the most natural thing to do was boink him. She was trying to feel something and kicking his ass just wasn't enough. So she took it to a new level. And then joined them and bingo! You have a house falling down.
Agreed!

I'm writing in a rush now, so I'll probably be more eloquent later on, but I'm just wondering: as Spuffyers, do you like the episode Smashed or not?

Overall as an episode, no, but I do like the end scene, although I didn't initially. Like everything Spuffy has been though, this experience is a part of their journey and I wouldn't change a thing.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------

I have mixed emotions about "Smashed." First off, the first time, in the middle of what turned out to be their last fight scene of the entire series, (and I truly loved their fight scenes, even though I am fully aware that a part of the action was stunt doubles, the parts where it was actually Sarah and James were choreographed so perfectly that it looked almost like a dance, and they always seemed, to me at least, as though they were actually enjoying the action) Buffy finally acknowledges what James had been playing from the first moment in his first scene with Sarah: the underlying element of sexual energy that passed between the two characters. Secondly, though we didn't know it at that time, "Smashed" marked the end of the bond of real friendship that Buffy and Spike had formed in the latter part of Season 5,

Firstly, great post as usual.

Agreed. It was great to see the sexual tension between them acknoledged.

This is a great point about the loss of their friendship, which is a reason why some fans think Spike's actions in Smashed were OOC. Yet, even though Spike was capable of love, affection, and could be trusted (and was) there was still a demon inside of him. He was still without a soul, he wasn' a little puppy. I think the fans forgot that. The writers wanted to remind us that he was still a vampire, hence writing Smashed in the way that they did - to prove a point.

...From "Smashed" on, Spike became simply Buffy's sex toy, and her dirty little secret, and she used him in that capacity quite extensively, as an escape from the pain and drudgery of her not so normal life. The first nail in the coffin lid of whatever tender feelings that Buffy had begun to feel for Spike was signified by their crashing through the floor of that abandoned house. From there through the end of the season, and on into the first part of Season 7, the friendship and trust that they had built so slowly ceased to be.

What you just wrote right here is the perfect description of Spuffy in this season. 🙂

(I could go on into the resurrection of that friendship (whether intentionally on the part of Joss and the writers, or purely by accident is anyone's guess, but I find it both significant and ironic that their friendship and finally Buffy's acceptance of her actual romantic feelings for Spike, began once more in a basement, where it had been symbolically buried the season before but that would be off topic for this thread, and I am making a conscious effort NOT to do that so much anymore.)

Also, just as Buffy is seemingly oblivious to the house falling down around them in Smashed, she is also oblivious to the Helmouth closing in Chosen. Would she had left if Faith hadn't called her? Staring into his eyes, she seems to go into a trance.
 
S
StarSlayer
Awesome post! :)
Of course "Smashed" made me happy! Spuffy got together! 😀 But, then the morning after "wrecked" it, with Buffy calling Spike "convenient" and all. ::Sigh::

Others have pretty much said how I also feel about the episode, but I'll add my own two cents too. 🙂 For me, I look at "Smashed" as Buffy and Spike finally expressing the way they feel toward each other, in more ways than one. Whether it's anger, desperation, attraction, etc. It's all there. After Spike tells Buffy she came back wrong, they begin their "dance" by fighting each other, which is exactly how their relationship started. They were mortal enemies. But, before you know it, they're making out and then doing it! These feelings that both of them have built up for so long and tried to ignore came "smashing" down. As Buffy later tells Xander, "It just happened."
 
Also, just as Buffy is seemingly oblivious to the house falling down around them in Smashed, she is also oblivious to the Helmouth closing in Chosen. Would she had left if Faith hadn't called her? Staring into his eyes, she seems to go into a trance.

I think that, at that moment, Buffy was as oblivious to the hellmouth falling around her and Spike as she had been of that house collapsing in Season 6, and for a quite similar and at the same time totally different reason. In "Smash," she was distracted by sheer, animal passion. In "Chosen," she was overcome by the realization that she did, indeed, love Spike. Would she have left if Faith hadn't called her? Faith had little, if anything, to do with it. Buffy knew that Spike was doing for her exactly what she did for Dawn at the end of Season 5. Dying for her. She most certainly didn't like it, but she saw the necessity of Spike's sacrifice, and she accepted it. She waited until the last possible moment, but ultimately she knew that she had to go. She had to go so that she could protect the world that Spike was dying to preserve. In the end, despite any personal feelings, it's the mission that counts.
 
When I first watched it, my jaw dropped. I though OH. MY. DRU. what?????? does this mean they might have a chance as a real couple now? but part of me realized that spuffy was not gonna be a normal couple no matter how much I wished they would be. when i say normal, i mean not using each other sexually.
 
The worst part about "Smashed," to me, is knowing that, whatever MIGHT have started with this episode, the next morning, in "Wrecked," Spike was going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with those fateful words, "I always knew that the only thing better than killing a Slayer would be f..." Talk about open mouth, insert foot!
 
Z
zobothehobo
Oh my god, yes.
Gum Gnome33
Gum Gnome33
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I don't know why people say that's their last fight scene. I literally just watched Beneath You and they were fighting at the Bronze.
 
I hate that episode. I really really hate it.

At the time I first saw it I was very first anti-Spuffy, kind of still pro-Bangel and pro-Briley, so that played it's part.

I think I might also have been anti-Spike. I can't recall, I think I started to stop rolling my eyes every time he was on screen after Intervention.

And now, even after seeing the entire show and really appreciating where the characters ended up after season 6, even wanting Buffy and Spike to start dating in season 9(this is what makes me feel like enoug of a Spuffy to reply to this thread), it still hurts so much to even think about that episode. I connect deeply with Buffy's disgust at wanting Spike, which is shown so many times on the show (specifically when she cries in Tara's lap). The sweeter parts of the relationship is overshadowed by the aweful parts.

Buffy lust for a rapist and a murderer, and every time I think about that ep I think about my friends who have been raped and the bullying I went through as a child and all sorts of bad things in the world that Spike represents. I cry for that suicidal depressed girl who slept with a creature she hated just so she could feel something other than emptyness. I know Buffy might not have been suicidal anymore, and it's not like Spike used a weak girl, but he did take advantage.

I also feel sad for Spike, for that shadow of a being that has lived in a relationship with a insane disloyal creature for over a century and has no idea how a healthy relationship is suppose to work and is actually thinking that having sex with Buffy was a step forward in their relationship (which it seems like he did). Sleeping with Buffy was one step forward and two steps back for Spike.

What they had before that, was a budding friendship. After they started to have sex, Buffy's disgust with Spike, which seemed to have been fading, came back. It seems to have faded again later in the season, but I don't think the sex helped their relationship. But it had to lead to violence and sex, because they were both fighters, Buffy had issues and Spike was in love. It was their nature. And actually, since I recall hearing that women have these chemicals in their brain that makes them like people after sex, them having sex might have helped Spike's chances in a way. I do wonder if their relationship wouldn't have moved forward faster though, without sex. Of course, no sex, might not have lead to the almost rape scene, which in turn lead to Spike getting a soul, which actually gave them real chances at a relationship. Sex or no sex, souless Spike and Buffy would never have been able to lead a real relationship, so maybe if they had actually never has sex, Spike would never have gotten a soul, and their relationship would have gotten nowhere. Besides, Spike's evil, their relationship would turned ugly one way or another.

I do think that season 6 is a masterpiece, like all the other seasons. It's painful, it's raw, it's heartbreaking. It's real. It's so real it hurts just to think about.

Now, I don't expect all people to react this way to the episode or relationship at large. I don't feel people are insensitive for being happy that Spike and Buffy slept together and I hope that no one reads that between the lines. As I've mentioned, I have my issues which probably made the Spuffy relationship's flaws seem much greater for me than for the average viewer. And I know that Spike was there for Buffy after all, in his own way, and he really did try to be what he thought she wanted him to be and if he hadn't been there, making her feel lust, excitement, anger, disgust, all of those things, she might have been worse off for it. Might even have let herself be killed by a demon in a random fight, because she simply couldn't feel anything. Instead, she resists temptation, she stops hiding in Spike's arms and steps into the light and comes out of that "relationship" a better person than before. And Spike does too, in the end.

But when I think of Smashed, I see a girl who has no where else to turn to than a murderer, and a creature that is so close to human it hurts when it's shown just how inhuman and ignorant he can be. I see two people, with potential of greatness, attack each other like animals and giving into darkness.

I have mixed emotions about "Smashed." First off, the first time, in the middle of what turned out to be their last fight scene of the entire series,

How about Beneath You?

He was the one who she went to when the weight of being both "Mama Buffy" and the, as far as we ever saw, sole bread earner in a house occupied by 3 other perfectly healthy women, all of whom were perfectly aware of her financial difficulties, and any or all of whom were perfectly capable of finding some sort of wage earning occupation in order to share the household expenses.

I know this is the wrong thread, we could jump to the appropiate one if necassary, don't want to take over the thread, but;

Buffy couldn't possible have supported all of them on her salary(and possibly Hank's child support for Dawn). Willow & Tara, and later just Willow, must have helped. It would have been very OOC for them not to, so I find no reason to assume otherwise. Willow & Tara must have had some money, to be able to go to school and pay rent pre-season 6, maybe from their parents or grants, and whatever they paid for rent and food and bills pre-season 6, probably went to the house, food and bills.

---------- Post added at 02:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 AM ----------

The worst part about "Smashed," to me, is knowing that, whatever MIGHT have started with this episode, the next morning, in "Wrecked," Spike was going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with those fateful words, "I always knew that the only thing better than killing a Slayer would be f..." Talk about open mouth, insert foot!

I know! How could he be that dumb!? I think Buffy would have given him a speech about how gross he was or whatever eventually, but he really ruined his chances.

I know Spike doesn't usually take part of the human society and might not know the things one should avoid saying to women you've just slept with, but come on, letting that slip out?

I was disgusted a moment ago, but re-read your post, it made me laugh. Not a very funny scene, and that line usually makes me mad at Spike, but it is funny how Spike can be so ignorant.
 
I personally really like Smashed. Yes, it's the first sex scene between these two, and yes it's super violent and kinda really self destructive (on both ends)... but that's part of what I love about it. I'm a bit of a masochist and I do things that feel good now and will inevitably cause much future pain just for the "it feels good now" all the time. It's funny, because the first time I watched... I was SO super excited and freaking out going "THEY GOT TOGETHER!" And I HAD to go onto Wrecked right then so I could see what happened in the morning. After I got over "OH MY GOD NAKED SPIKE" I started to cry because I kind of realized what this meant for both characters. I realized the volent sex they'd just had and the abuse, both physical and emotional, they both were putting themselves though. And then I realized I was doing just that with something I was procrastinating doing.

So yes, it's self destructive, dark, and terrible... but I relate to it. It's one of my favorite Spuffy episodes BECAUSE of the masochistic tendencies of both characters presented here.
 
P
prophecygrrl
it's weird seeing you without the William avatar :p
I don't hate Smashed and I like the ending for um, obvious reasons 😀, but I don't think it's a Spuffy victory exactly. I like how it's written because I think Buffy and Spike getting together sexually and in that context is pretty thematically brilliant, but it's difficult for me to like it because like Skytteflickan88 said, it makes me sad for Buffy and a little for Spike (although mostly Buffy). It's just badness all around and as much as I would LIKE it to mean something good, I don't think "Smashed" does. That scene is the start of an abusive relationship, but at the same time I think it needed to happen. Gah. I am confused.
 
Z
zobothehobo
I know! But I felt like I had to change to custom because I can. haha
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Skytteflickan88
I feel ya sister. It's very bad, but at the same time good. It had ro happen.
To clarify my statement about "Smashed" having the last real Buffy/Spike fight, what happened in "Beneath You," in my opinion, wasn't as much a fight as it was just Buffy beating the crap out of Spike. I still say, "Smashed" was the last time that Buffy and Spike really, as Spike loved to call it, danced.
 
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