Spoiler! Sneak Peek at BtVS S10 #1
- Thread starter Lyri
- Start date
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
I wanna see more of the other characters before I judge the art, but yeah im a bit meh on it.
I called the story a few months back, when we got those first pics, I knew Vamps would team up to get rid of the Zompires (Yay! Death to that word).
Not overly impressed, I would have rather a hint at these new rules. They tried to make the hint about Spike, with the hand and I'm really getting board of the constant importance put on Spike, the fact I dont like him aside, they are afraid to do anything with his character so he is by far the least important character in the comic.
The new vampire says she's not into Buffy is interesting, wonder if they will still feed on human blood?
I called the story a few months back, when we got those first pics, I knew Vamps would team up to get rid of the Zompires (Yay! Death to that word).
Not overly impressed, I would have rather a hint at these new rules. They tried to make the hint about Spike, with the hand and I'm really getting board of the constant importance put on Spike, the fact I dont like him aside, they are afraid to do anything with his character so he is by far the least important character in the comic.
The new vampire says she's not into Buffy is interesting, wonder if they will still feed on human blood?
I think they're just messing too much with the basis of the show. I mean, first zompires and now, what, Daywalkers? General consensus is that the red-headed vamp is the same vamp from the end of S9, so we know there's something different about her, we saw that.
Vampires, magic, Dawn - too much of the core of the show is being changed for these comics and I don't really like it.
Vampires, magic, Dawn - too much of the core of the show is being changed for these comics and I don't really like it.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I think if the show had lasted 10 seasons, we would have seen similar changes to the basic rules... maybe not Angel turning into an evil flying superpowered luchador or Buffy spending half a season unknowingly as a robot... but changing the rules of vampires would certainly be reasonable.
Vamps with daywalking ability are certainly a much bigger threat. But we have yet to see New Vampire Girl here in normal human face... I suspect these new vamps are stuck in vamp face 24/7. That will make it impossible for them to mingle with humans like the old vamps could. So, it's kind of a double-edged sword for them.
(I'm not SURE the new vamps can't assume human face... I'm just speculating based on the fact that we've never seen this girl that way since she reawakened in the last issue of season 9.)
Vamps with daywalking ability are certainly a much bigger threat. But we have yet to see New Vampire Girl here in normal human face... I suspect these new vamps are stuck in vamp face 24/7. That will make it impossible for them to mingle with humans like the old vamps could. So, it's kind of a double-edged sword for them.
(I'm not SURE the new vamps can't assume human face... I'm just speculating based on the fact that we've never seen this girl that way since she reawakened in the last issue of season 9.)
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
How the hell does this vamp know that Buffy did that anyway?
Man, I've had it with vamps acting morally superior to anybody. (Although her snark at Buffy's tradition was kinda funny- still hopes Buffy stakes her. 🙂).
Action scenes in the Buffy comics have always been a bit...crap to be honest, but I like Rebecca's work on Angel&Faith, so here's hoping!
I also hope this is back to basics- no superBuffy, no godfrak, no Zompires, no RoboBuffy, no more supid ideas, please!
Man, I've had it with vamps acting morally superior to anybody. (Although her snark at Buffy's tradition was kinda funny- still hopes Buffy stakes her. 🙂).
Action scenes in the Buffy comics have always been a bit...crap to be honest, but I like Rebecca's work on Angel&Faith, so here's hoping!
I also hope this is back to basics- no superBuffy, no godfrak, no Zompires, no RoboBuffy, no more supid ideas, please!
I can't find a nice way of saying 'Last season in A&F, Gage puts blame for Twilight almost killing all their family and friends on Buffy's shoulders because she apparently didn't let Angel get a word in edgewise', so I'm just gonna leave it at that and hope that you don't shoot/disown/abandon me because, as we have recently discussed I NEED YOU IN MY LIFE!!!
The whole world seems to know who Buffy is now, so I don't think it would be too hard for even a newbie vamp to find out who Buffy is and what went down.
Though, I can't remember...is this vamp a newbie and she ended up like this? Or did her vamp-y powers just change when the Seed was restored?
Given that this vampire (if the consensus is right and it's the same vampire from the end of S9) is immune to sunlight, the vampire rules have changed again. Though it's still to be determined if ALL new vampires are immune to sunlight, or just this girl's line.
Oh God, he did, didn't he? These comics are the bloody pits.
P.S. Keri is a lifetime deal 😉
Lyri
*glomps*
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Hmn, I guess Buffy is pretty famous- I just figured this vamp was new.
And I don't mind making vampires more of a challenge to Buffy, maybe making them more Dracula-like (with the transforming) or changing the rules around a little- that's cool...it's just some of decision making has been really ropy on Buffy S9 (although I happen to think A&F was a great unofficial Angel season 6 (?), staring Angel, Giles, Faith and some interesting new characters) I'm hoping Gage will bring his 'A' game, nail all the characters and dialogue and we can have something actually happen this season. 🙂
ladydorotea
Scooby
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2009
- Messages
- 722
Blink. Where did this one come from? I know there is an element in fandom that takes everything related to Angel the character and turns it upside-down for pure sport, but ..? Seriously? You and Kean came to this kind of conclusion by virtue of what ??
All CG did was to use a lame joke that passed between Joss and Scott Allie in a private conversation as a line that Angel gave as a half-hearted-half-blurted apology for being a dumb-ass and a sucker for Big Gestures. 'Putting blame for Twilight' on anybody in particular was not either Joss' or Gage's intention, as they long decided to put the blame for it on the metaphysics of the Buffy-verse : you do too much good (or bad) - something ugly is sure to awaken and go after you and your loved ones. See also the Order vs Chaos trope for more details.
By virtue of it being a line of dialogue that Angel says in the comics that is inherently sexist and perpetuates the gender trope if the hysterical woman. "Gosh darn, if only Buffy had calmed down enough to let me speak I could have the world." The implications of the line are there to be interpreted. If it was a line from an email quite frankly I think it should have stayed in said email.
Lyri and I expressed a different interpretation of the line. If you disagree, fantastic! We can have a discussion about those differences of opinion. But there is no place or reason for snide comments about the integrity of the thought process or intentions behind our interpretations.
I don't have the issue in front of me, because, quite frankly, I'm not wasting my money on the drivel that was A&F or S9, I didn't actually buy it.
But there is a moment in the A&F when Angel - while explaining why he supposedly was going to leave everyone else behind when he and Buffy were birthing their new universe - said something along the lines of (and I'm paraphrasing) 'No, that's not what happened, I was going to bring everyone with me, but Buffy wouldn't let me explain, because have you ever tried to get a word in around that girl?'
That was it. It wasn't something that [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] and I 'came up with'.It's there, in the comic, in blank and white. There was never anything said about it being a joke. It was Gage trying to make Angel look better and try to make him out to be a hero. Angel never said 'nah, I was kidding' or 'I was just trying to make myself look better' nor was it passed off as a joke the way Angel phrased it. It's out there, Angel put the blame for everyone thinking that he was going to allow everyone except himself and Buffy to die onto Buffy because Buffy apparently never gave him a chance to explain everything properly.
I'm not saying that it was wrong, because I think Gage had a hard time trying to make Angel likable again and he did pretty well. But he spent a lot of time during A&F trying to remove blame from Angel's shoulders with the whole Twilight/New Universe thing, trying to allow Angel to explain how he wasn't a monster and a bad guy, and by doing that, a lot of Buffy's fans (myself included, not so much [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] I don't think) felt that Gage was inadvertently shifting the blame to Buffy while not actually having any control over Buffy's side of the story.
Now he IS in control of Buffy's story, after spending a season repairing Angel and writing things like the above, where Angel was just misunderstood and Buffy wouldn't give him the time to let him explain.
But there is a moment in the A&F when Angel - while explaining why he supposedly was going to leave everyone else behind when he and Buffy were birthing their new universe - said something along the lines of (and I'm paraphrasing) 'No, that's not what happened, I was going to bring everyone with me, but Buffy wouldn't let me explain, because have you ever tried to get a word in around that girl?'
That was it. It wasn't something that [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] and I 'came up with'.It's there, in the comic, in blank and white. There was never anything said about it being a joke. It was Gage trying to make Angel look better and try to make him out to be a hero. Angel never said 'nah, I was kidding' or 'I was just trying to make myself look better' nor was it passed off as a joke the way Angel phrased it. It's out there, Angel put the blame for everyone thinking that he was going to allow everyone except himself and Buffy to die onto Buffy because Buffy apparently never gave him a chance to explain everything properly.
I'm not saying that it was wrong, because I think Gage had a hard time trying to make Angel likable again and he did pretty well. But he spent a lot of time during A&F trying to remove blame from Angel's shoulders with the whole Twilight/New Universe thing, trying to allow Angel to explain how he wasn't a monster and a bad guy, and by doing that, a lot of Buffy's fans (myself included, not so much [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] I don't think) felt that Gage was inadvertently shifting the blame to Buffy while not actually having any control over Buffy's side of the story.
Now he IS in control of Buffy's story, after spending a season repairing Angel and writing things like the above, where Angel was just misunderstood and Buffy wouldn't give him the time to let him explain.
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
It was definitely a joke.
He didn't try and shift blame to Buffy at all, he said he didn't fully explain the plan to her, and we all know that it wasn't becasue of Buffys non-stop talking, it was cuz of all the interstellar sex.
But he definetly meant it as a joke, he said it to Willow, her best friend, and it was taken as a joke by Willow
It's also acknowledged as a joke to the audience by how they move on, or I took it as a joke telling us to just move on as it's basically open acknowledgement of a retcon :
The only "blame" put on Buffy is that she didn't tell the gang that everyone was going to Twilight, but thats explained as her not knowing, but no blame for deaths are put on Buffy, and a joke is made about her talking a lot, which she, as a character, not as a women, does a lot.
It definitely wasn't sexist, making the connection between Buffy being a women and talking a lot doesn't automatically make it sexist, between her and Angel she does all the talking, that is part of her character. But the joke is even mocked for being sexist by Willow, but ultimately it's acknowledged as being just a joke.
He didn't try and shift blame to Buffy at all, he said he didn't fully explain the plan to her, and we all know that it wasn't becasue of Buffys non-stop talking, it was cuz of all the interstellar sex.
But he definetly meant it as a joke, he said it to Willow, her best friend, and it was taken as a joke by Willow
It's also acknowledged as a joke to the audience by how they move on, or I took it as a joke telling us to just move on as it's basically open acknowledgement of a retcon :
The only "blame" put on Buffy is that she didn't tell the gang that everyone was going to Twilight, but thats explained as her not knowing, but no blame for deaths are put on Buffy, and a joke is made about her talking a lot, which she, as a character, not as a women, does a lot.
It definitely wasn't sexist, making the connection between Buffy being a women and talking a lot doesn't automatically make it sexist, between her and Angel she does all the talking, that is part of her character. But the joke is even mocked for being sexist by Willow, but ultimately it's acknowledged as being just a joke.
brinkster130
[No message]
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
I just wanna say that Faith completly owns that scene! 😉
And Angel & Faith is great! Great stories, great characters. Great crossovers. As far as I'm concerned it's absolutely canon- even if I have to acknowledge all that 'Twilight' 🙂eek🙂 stuff to do it. I will make that sacrifice. 🙂
And Angel & Faith is great! Great stories, great characters. Great crossovers. As far as I'm concerned it's absolutely canon- even if I have to acknowledge all that 'Twilight' 🙂eek🙂 stuff to do it. I will make that sacrifice. 🙂
I'm sorry, but I don't see it as a joke and I likely never will. Feel free to disagree, that's fine, I'm not demanding that everyone see everything the way I do. But to me, it smacks of Angel trying to do everything he can to prove what a good guy he is and Gage pulling out every trick he has to make Angel seem as unlike the guy we saw in S8 as possible.
Last season, a lot of people were yelling about Angel's supposed whitewashing and this scene was a hot button topic. I know people who were furious about it, calling Angel - and Gage - out over his failure to take responsibility for his actions and I know people who were screaming even louder every time someone in S9 blamed Buffy for the lack of magic with no mention of Angel or his part in the proceedings.
So, yeah, I'm nervous about Gage now being in control of S10, and from what I've seen so far, my fears aren't exactly going away.
Last season, a lot of people were yelling about Angel's supposed whitewashing and this scene was a hot button topic. I know people who were furious about it, calling Angel - and Gage - out over his failure to take responsibility for his actions and I know people who were screaming even louder every time someone in S9 blamed Buffy for the lack of magic with no mention of Angel or his part in the proceedings.
So, yeah, I'm nervous about Gage now being in control of S10, and from what I've seen so far, my fears aren't exactly going away.
ladydorotea
Scooby
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2009
- Messages
- 722
Ladies, gents, firstly, I have to apologize for being socially inept. I suppose I work with machines much more than I communicate with people and it shows. I did not mean to offend any of you or imply that I disrespect your cognitive processes, OK?
In any case , let me give you a bit of a background on the offending quote. I was told explicitly by one of participating parties ( as in a one on one conversation while having a bit of a chat with them on one of the public events) that "And do you know what JW ( as in Joss Whedon) said when I asked him ( paraphrasing from memory) 'how come Angel did not tell Buffy when they were in Twilight that bit about them being Gods and having all the power over fixing their new reality and bringing the people in?' He chuckled <begin quote>Ever tried to talk to Buffy when she is all worked up?<end quote>"
Now, maybe I am thick-skinned and not that sensitive ( see working with computers reference), maybe I am just not that easily offended, maybe I am a dumb female in my mid-whateves. But for me the whole scenario sounded like Joss joking about 'his avatar' as in his own projection of Buffy as a personality on his personal senses. He is her creator for Gads sake, he writes her, thus he has the right to joke about his own work. And you have to agree, Buffy has a tendency to be carried away with action and centered on her own leadership role and agenda - and that tends out to be working just fine in most cases. In no way the case of forceful and stubborn personality should be-could be taken as a gender-related joke, or so I think in any case.
The joke by Whedon than made its way into the comic because Gage was awed by having an opportunity to insert Joss' line. Never on green earth nobody of them ever dreamt of 'whitewashing' one character by offending another. That interpretation, IMHO, is about as appropriate as interpreting the pre-Twilight events as a 'rape'. Then again if you see it this way lets just disagree on it. I sure cannot help it but wonder next time when I get in the midst of a particularly heated technical discussion if I should not hold it back - because otherwise they would think of me as of that 'worked up female' with whom it is hard to put a word in.
In any case , let me give you a bit of a background on the offending quote. I was told explicitly by one of participating parties ( as in a one on one conversation while having a bit of a chat with them on one of the public events) that "And do you know what JW ( as in Joss Whedon) said when I asked him ( paraphrasing from memory) 'how come Angel did not tell Buffy when they were in Twilight that bit about them being Gods and having all the power over fixing their new reality and bringing the people in?' He chuckled <begin quote>Ever tried to talk to Buffy when she is all worked up?<end quote>"
Now, maybe I am thick-skinned and not that sensitive ( see working with computers reference), maybe I am just not that easily offended, maybe I am a dumb female in my mid-whateves. But for me the whole scenario sounded like Joss joking about 'his avatar' as in his own projection of Buffy as a personality on his personal senses. He is her creator for Gads sake, he writes her, thus he has the right to joke about his own work. And you have to agree, Buffy has a tendency to be carried away with action and centered on her own leadership role and agenda - and that tends out to be working just fine in most cases. In no way the case of forceful and stubborn personality should be-could be taken as a gender-related joke, or so I think in any case.
The joke by Whedon than made its way into the comic because Gage was awed by having an opportunity to insert Joss' line. Never on green earth nobody of them ever dreamt of 'whitewashing' one character by offending another. That interpretation, IMHO, is about as appropriate as interpreting the pre-Twilight events as a 'rape'. Then again if you see it this way lets just disagree on it. I sure cannot help it but wonder next time when I get in the midst of a particularly heated technical discussion if I should not hold it back - because otherwise they would think of me as of that 'worked up female' with whom it is hard to put a word in.
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Even a small example is gachnar, Buffy didn't let Giles finish a sentence before she was ready to act and destroy the seal, releasing him. Her character has always been like that, which is why I see no problem with one of her closets friends making a joke of it to another of her closest friends.
L
ladydorotea
[No message]
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Came across this from a few issues later, it clarifies more of what Angel said to Buffy.
So I definitely think, putting in context that he did tell her and she shot the theory down, he was just making a joke to Willow, becasue it was Willow.
In that second last speech bubble he gives full credit to Buffy for being the one to make the decision to turn against Twilight. So I definitely dont think Angel was trying to retcon the history and blame it all on Buffy, he does the opposite, he says she saw through the plan when he believed it and she decided to go against it
So I definitely think, putting in context that he did tell her and she shot the theory down, he was just making a joke to Willow, becasue it was Willow.
In that second last speech bubble he gives full credit to Buffy for being the one to make the decision to turn against Twilight. So I definitely dont think Angel was trying to retcon the history and blame it all on Buffy, he does the opposite, he says she saw through the plan when he believed it and she decided to go against it
Well, I am interested in BtVS season 10, and I really look forward to the season when it comes out (I think next month, here in the US).
I am not going to comment on the scene from Wonderland, except to say that I think it helps set the stage for the story.
But the scene with the Vampire staking the Zompires was Odd, Exceedingly so!
I am not going to comment on the scene from Wonderland, except to say that I think it helps set the stage for the story.
But the scene with the Vampire staking the Zompires was Odd, Exceedingly so!