How is signing a prophecy an agreement... anywhere? It's not a legal document, it's not even a legally binding verbal contract. I just don't buy anything said by a bunch of evil guys with an agenda. Having said that, I think it's characteristic of Angel's character to give up what he wants the most for the benefit of others.
So Angel Can't Be a Human Ever Again?
- Thread starter mikey3319
- Start date
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
Very good point. He did just sign his name across the top of the prophecy document, didn't he? They told him it was so that he wasn't in the running for becoming human again, but that doesn't make it so. It might even have done the opposite; his blood on the scroll might have solidified his connection to the prophecy. (Pure speculation, of course.) For a group of people who are usually so thorough when it comes to binding legal contracts, they really slipped up this time!
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Hmm, I like how you ended that.
For a group of people who are usually so thorough when it comes to binding legal contracts, they really slipped up this time
A group of demons that work so closely with contracts/law/documents to make such an error - does that seem likely.
Its not like they were hoodwinked, they set this up and now its possible that they've made an error.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe Angel signed away anything, just a belief in it.
(Angel) was a human in his own show , although , I think he made the right choice , going back to being a vampire , also , I think , if (Buffy & Anegl) just took the time to be together and work on it , they could of been great together , also , Iv got a thing for vampire's , well , actully , only (Angel).
ILLYRIAN
Druish Pervonian Wizard
One of the problems about legally binding documents, if you sign your name or make your mark below what is written above, you are seen to be in agreeance with what is written above and it is a legally binding document, that's one of the reasons for signing the last line, so that nothing else can be added.
As for what it's written on, that makes no difference. As long as the required info is present, a cheque can be on a house-brick, or a cow.
As previously posted I don't agree with him signing their stuff anyway, legalities don't come into the good verses bad thing.
As for what it's written on, that makes no difference. As long as the required info is present, a cheque can be on a house-brick, or a cow.
As previously posted I don't agree with him signing their stuff anyway, legalities don't come into the good verses bad thing.
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
Here's a thought.
What if he already Sanshued and already gave it up? What if the Sanshu prophecy referred to the Morah demon thing? It says the vampire with a soul will play a major role in the apocalypse. It says the vampire with a soul will get to be human. But does it say definitively in what order those events will occur?
What if he already Sanshued and already gave it up? What if the Sanshu prophecy referred to the Morah demon thing? It says the vampire with a soul will play a major role in the apocalypse. It says the vampire with a soul will get to be human. But does it say definitively in what order those events will occur?
I don't see how he could have signed it away. Shanshu was his reward, his gift from the Powers but he hadn't recieved it yet, so how can he relinguish ownership when it was the powers that owned it when he signed the contract. I think it is still his for the taking.
Joyce Summers
Mom of a Chocoholic
Didn't Joss say in an interview once that if he had continued Angel past season 5 TV-wise then he stated it would have played out that Angel would have lost an arm, Gunn died (or was turned) and Spike got the prophecy...
Joyce Summers
Mom of a Chocoholic
Haha, nice counter argument there. But that's what I read somewhere. Might be on Whedonverse or something. I think it would be cool if Spike was the one the prophecy was *always* talking about, but no one had realized. That would be fabulous irony. haha
Joyce Summers
Mom of a Chocoholic
I'm guessin Joss should be glad he *didn't* get to write that then given the initial reaction, haha.
angeldork
Townie
This topic has always been intriguing to me. The fact that so easily Angel can sign his name in his own blood on the Shanshu prophecy and have it then be meaningless now. But my ideas on the subject might be kinda creative I don't know. See I think the Black Thorn know that you can't just sign a prophecy away like it was nothing. I think that maybe they were trying to have Angel think that. They wanted Angel to sign his name on that prophecy to really see that he has converted to the side of evil. They would know that if he hadn't signed his name on that prophecy that it was all just an act. Cause to them a thing with a soul always has something to look forward to, if you take that thing away then they no longer have anything to look forward to. I think that it was all just a mind game. And I really don't think that that prophecy is in no regards to Spike at all and I'll explain. See when Spike left after he tried to rape Buffy and failed he wanted to get back at her. He essentially wanted to kill her. When he went to the demon trials he asked for that demon to take the chip out of his head so that he would be evil again and would be able to finally kill Buffy, the object of his obsession. Now how at the end of the trials he got a soul is way beyond me. But him getting a soul was never Spike's intention. So I think that the prophecy plainly refers to Angel. Also seeing as now every good thing that Spike has ever done, he's done it with a motive that only suits himself.
A
alexa
I hope you're reading Angel After the Fall ;)
thegifting
I think in 3D
This is what I've always thought. I believe that, if anything, his signing it is the 'Cup of Perpetual Torment' that Spike finally triumphed for, but Angel wan the war for. Also, despite the recurring theme in the series of good not bringing good, evil not bringing evil, but your intentions and purposes being worth something, even if it's shitty and not much, that Angel showing that his role in 'the' apocalypse isn't motivated by his own selfish gains, final proof that he is THE vampire champion with a soul.
Though the fact that he could fight for evil and still be made human is quite wicked.
TheHeartist
The BB poster with a soul
I could see the Liam/Angel name issue being used in future. As for the whole Morah demon issue, I agree with the Angel not wanting to lose the thing that made him different argument. I think even as a human, he still would have been the best fighter in the group, surely the centuries of fighting and conflict has Angel's combat abilities far ahead of anyone else in the Angel series on terms of pure skill?
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
Good point about the Liam/Angel thing.
Also, yes... Angel has to have some serious skills, even as a human. I think the trouble might come in with the fact that he developed those skills as a vampire. As such, he didn't learn how to fight as a human with human limits. I don't think human Angel would/will know when to back down, and I think that could get him hurt or killed in a hurry.
TheHeartist
The BB poster with a soul
On the contrary, I think Angel would realise all too well the dangers of fighting as a human. He is surrounded by them, and stalked and murdered hundreds as Angeleus over the years. And to hunt one's prey, you have to know them inside out.
palabravampiress
Oh Gosh. That's a *really* good point. Why didn't I think of that?! lol.