So What's all this bad shade Xander's been getting lately?

[Taake]

Disagree, Nick Brendon was clearly a good looking guy and JW says on the Commentary that he was much to good looking for the role but this is TV so get over it.

He is a good looking guy by regular standards, so next to Joss Whedon - yeah, he is a hot guy. But as mentioned by others - he wasn’t presented as hot, or hot in context of the rest of the cast. There was a reason he was cast as Xander.

They obviously dress him very differently too.

It is like putting Willow next to Cordelia and ask people who they think is eye-candy. Certainly some will pick Willow, but generally it is gonna be Cordelia who is classified as the most conventionally attractive one.

 

[NotASlayer]

It is like putting Willow next to Cordelia and ask people who they think is eye-candy. Certainly some will pick Willow, but generally it is gonna be Cordelia who is classified as the most conventionally attractive one.

Obviously those people do not have a bit of a thing for smart redheads... 😀

 

[Cohen]

I think people find Xander more creepy and inappropriate now than perhaps original audiences did (judging by reactions I’ve watched)

There is less tolerance for his behavior toward Buffy (like trying to peek at her changing in s1), his crush on her even after she has said no and how that some times makes him act. A mixture of jealous possessiveness mingled with petty meanness. (Then again, as mentioned by others. if he was hotter this would probably be overlooked. Perhaps we are just getting more vain.)

Sometimes he may be too harshly judged, I think… but then perhaps not. I don’t know. He is a flawed character, but I think one can often understand where he is coming from. But I dont think his kind of humor lands as well now. Or at least it dosen’t outweigh the bad.

I was viewing when it aired and its fair to say Xander was seen as Joss self insert (he's since said Buffy was his insert as what he'd to be like as a girl) and as Joss revelations came out the hostility to the Xander character increased. Plus on rewatch he really does come across as a nasty piece of work. Now that probably wasn't what the writers were going for but its how he comes across. Literally the very first scene he says to Buffy is "can I have you" and she smiles and laughs like its funny but what she really should be doing is going "What!!" And thinking this guy is weird.

I agree, I think it is placing 2020+ standards on a time that society was so inherently different. But also many of the issues people have with him are from his teenage years. I guess, barring the dream in Dirty Girls that @KaitKat brought up, which is merky waters, but most of the issues seem to stem from how he is portrayed in seasons 1-3. And I think we also have to give the character grace in that he was a teenager growing up in the 1990s, and was portrayed as just that.

Joss actually wanted to kill him off in Dirty Girls and have him as The First but was persuaded not to by the other writers hence just losing his eye.
I think that may have been as much down to viewing Nick Brendon being unable to be sober enough for the part as much as anything (it's why Tom Lenk Andrew took over a large part of his role in S7)

I didn't realize that his sobriety (or lack thereof) in season 7 was an issue. This is the first I heard of that, not that I'm discrediting you. I knew Andrew was brought in as more of a comic relief, but it almost made sense to me because Xander had grown a lot in the back half of the series.

Even back when watching it people thought it was creepy that Xander was pleased when he thought a 14yr old girl was into him and outraged when he found out she was not.

I saw this more as flattered that she was crushing, similar to @NotASlayer's viewpoint, and then commentary on her crush on Spike, because it was Spike. But I wasn't really active on boards when season 5 originally aired. It wasn't until a couple of years after the series ended that I became active on message boards.

Also, I think feelings for the actor colors peoples thoughts on the character. Nick Brendon got away with a lot of weird behavior (hug therapy with fans…) because he was considered harmless and lovable via Xander. As the good will for Brendon expired, I think the dislike for him came to influence feelings on Xander.

I think this has a lot to do with it. Today, people can look up information about the actors and their private lives that weren't readily available in the late 90s/early 00s. And what we got were curated magazine articles and tell-all books that were focused on promoting the positive aspects of the brand, and less about who the people actually were.

 

[NotASlayer]

Y'know, plenty has been written about some men and the hypocritical 'whore/virgin' paradigm but really the whole 'nice, wholesome guy/hot rape-y dirtbag' thing that many women have has to dug into, because its weird.

I have read claims that this is an evolutionary imperative; the genes from the nasty guy mean offspring has a better chance of surviving. Nice guys make better providers, though. As an evolutionary imperative, it rather fails once intelligence comes into play.

I have no idea whether this is true or not. But it is an explanation.

 

[Cohen]

I have read claims that this is an evolutionary imperative; the genes from the nasty guy mean offspring has a better chance of surviving. Nice guys make better providers, though. As an evolutionary imperative, it rather fails once intelligence comes into play.

I have no idea whether this is true or not. But it is an explanation.

So the reason why I used to be attracted to douche canoes is because of procreation? Wait.. I can't procreate. Must be addiction to drama.

Luckily, I married a nice guy, so less drama than the weasels I dated in yesteryear.

But also explains other peoples' attraction to Spike. Personally, I've always loved Graham. I know he was a side character, but that soldier could take care of me any day.

Oh, the hotness factor must be a thing, because Xander as soldier? Gross. Graham as soldier? Yes, please!

 

[Taake]

@AlphaFoxtrot yeah, I mean if one just compares High school Xander vs Wishverse vampire Xander the presentation makes a big difference

He still isn’t Spike or Angel levels of ”hot guy”, but you certainly see a different way to present Xander in a more hotness-coded way

 

[Cohen]

@AlphaFoxtrot yeah, I mean if one just compares High school Xander vs Wishverse vampire Xander the presentation makes a big difference

He still isn’t Spike or Angel levels of ”hot guy”, but you certainly see a different way to present Xander in a more hotness-coded way

Ohhhh good point. Dark Xander had much more of a swagger to him. Also, his alternate in The Replacement was much more attractive. So the idea that Xander was written to be not-hot and was dressed and presented as not-hot has credence!

 

[NotASlayer]

Ohhhh good point. Dark Xander had much more of a swagger to him. Also, his alternate in The Replacement was much more attractive. So the idea that Xander was written to be not-hot and was dressed and presented as not-hot has credence!

If you notice, after The Replacement until the start of season six Xander carried himself with a lot more confidence, not doubting himself, and was also dressing better, in the sense of not being as scruffy.

 

[Cohen]

If you notice, after The Replacement until the start of season six Xander carried himself with a lot more confidence, not doubting himself, and was also dressing better, in the sense of not being as scruffy.

Yeah, and then they took him back to being a man-child in season 6. I was actually excited for him to get married to Anya. I really disliked that they made him leave her at the alter. I even liked that he had qualms and wasn't sure how it was going to work out, because that's a natural part of getting married. But that he did all this, mixed her demon "relatives" with his human demonic relatives, and then he just leaves her? It was a step back on his character.

Though we did get a mature Xander in season 7.

I think ultimately, they didn't know what to do with him. They didn't know how to progress his character. Buffy struggled with being a leader and having the weight of the world on her shoulders. Willow's storylines centered around her obsessive use of magic. Giles struggled with how to be a father figure to his charge, and balancing parental duties with personal life. Xander was just---the one who didn't have powers. They did progress him somewhat in season 5 with the construction job, and then he became a leader of sorts on that job in seasons 6 and into 7. But they didn't know what to do with him.

And then at the same time, made him the comic relief. So he's the average looking "funny guy" with no trajectory. And makes crude jokes occassionally, which is why I think so many people have recently harped on his character.

 

[NotASlayer]

Yeah, and then they took him back to being a man-child in season 6. I was actually excited for him to get married to Anya. I really disliked that they made him leave her at the alter. I even liked that he had qualms and wasn't sure how it was going to work out, because that's a natural part of getting married. But that he did all this, mixed her demon "relatives" with his human demonic relatives, and then he just leaves her? It was a step back on his character.

Though we did get a mature Xander in season 7.

I think ultimately, they didn't know what to do with him. They didn't know how to progress his character. Buffy struggled with being a leader and having the weight of the world on her shoulders. Willow's storylines centered around her obsessive use of magic. Giles struggled with how to be a father figure to his charge, and balancing parental duties with personal life. Xander was just---the one who didn't have powers. They did progress him somewhat in season 5 with the construction job, and then he became a leader of sorts on that job in seasons 6 and into 7. But they didn't know what to do with him.

And then at the same time, made him the comic relief. So he's the average looking "funny guy" with no trajectory. And makes crude jokes occassionally, which is why I think so many people have recently harped on his character.

Yes, season six undid all his character development, to the extent I cannot even recognise him. Everything he learned and knew through the first five seasons just vanished, leaving someone more pitiful and incapable than S1 Xander.

As to what to do with him, someone here suggested he could have become a Q-like character. Heck, Buffy herself mentioned Q! Introducing the Xandermatic 5000 Repeating Crossbow!

 

[Kendar]

As to what to do with him, someone here suggested he could have become a Q-like character. Heck, Buffy herself mentioned Q! Introducing the Xandermatic 5000 Repeating Crossbow!

I'm not sure what, but it says something about me that when I first read this I was thinking "would that mean bringing John deLancey in for a guest spot?"

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Re; Dawn and Friends; It is explicitly stated with Buffy and Dawn that Buffy was manipulated by the monks to care for Dawn, it makes sense that everyone else was. Otherwise, they would have just "Tuvixed" her

Xander as Weapons Master; That is a great niche, and one of the few ways a character can complement Buffy.

 

[Cohen]

I disagree that the monks manipulated Buffy to care for Dawn. The memories of Dawn in Buffy's life was implanted, yes. But it was ultimately Buffy's choice to care for her. Even Joyce mentioned this before going in for surgery. "She feels like mine, but she isn't. We have to protect her. Buffy, please protect her." Joyce, upon realizing that Dawn wasn't hers, made a choice to protect her. You could argue that the act of making her family is manipulation, but I disagree.

That doesn't negate that each of the Scoobies' minds were altered, and anyone in Dawn's false history. But there is still choice there.

@Kendar makes a great point that Xander easily could have become weapons expert, especially when they introduced his knowledge of the military carried over from Ethan's spell in Halloween. He could have become second in command, especially in the final season as they were forming a Potential Slayer army (and I think happened in the comics). They also could have had him better infiltrate the Initiative in season 4, had he not been seen as merely comic relief.

 

[Taake]

I disagree that the monks manipulated Buffy to care for Dawn. The memories of Dawn in Buffy's life was implanted, yes. But it was ultimately Buffy's choice to care for her. Even Joyce mentioned this before going in for surgery. "She feels like mine, but she isn't. We have to protect her. Buffy, please protect her." Joyce, upon realizing that Dawn wasn't hers, made a choice to protect her. You could argue that the act of making her family is manipulation, but I disagree.

I will argue that, ”she feels like she is mine” is the manipulation, so the choice partly (mostly) comes from that feeling. Buffy wouldn’t have been ready to sacrifice the world for Jane anybody.

Is there a real choice when someone has altered your life and feelings, thus your capacity to make a choice?

 

[Antho]

I think that physical appearance, the charisma of an actor have a lot to do with it and explain how a fan reacts. There are plenty of characters in the television world today who are problematic, there are red flags everywhere but the character is loved because the actor is handsome so it’s easy to not look at the flaws or find excuses.
You have the same character played by a less handsome actor, I guarantee you that people will be much more critical.
So yes I do think that Xander is criticizable and people are more critical with him than of others because he has the physical appearance of a guy you can see every day in the street. That’s not fair but that’s a fact.

 

[Mr Trick]

A lot of this is a very 2025/post Whedon scandal fallout stuff. Another thing people don’t always consider is that a show now over 25 years old is always going to have dated elements. There are some cringe moments with Xander, and scenes when he crosses a line. A lot of it is understandable for a teenage boy. By the end of the show he has some of the best growth and matures a lot.