Some random thought about Whedon

afanofbuffy

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Don't anyone think it's insane how some actresses have had affairs with Whedon. I don't think they were attracted to him... Funny how when a man or a woman is rich and famous even though that said man is a disgusting asshole, some bitcas will havs no problem having sex with him, but if that disgusting asshole wasn't rich, those bitcas would never have wanted to touch him. Just a random thought that I wanted to write about.
 
Nothing funny about this at all. Ever since we came down from the trees, even before we could be called human, the tribes that would become mankind had a social order that ensured that if a female was liked by the powerful alpha male of the tribe, she would be taken care of and her children would survive. If she fell afoul of the leader, she and her children would face an uncertain (and probably short) future. The women who understood this survived and the ones who didn't died off, leaving a Darwinian predilection for powerful alpha males. This has been hardwired into the female brain over thousands of generations from before Atlantis, even before Lemuria and back into the distant recesses of time. Women gain status from the men they are with. The more outrageous and dominant he is, the better her chances of advancement, survival and ease.

There is nothing in the history of women that militates against this view. Feminism doesn't address it because it makes women look weak, so feminists pretend this doesn't exist.
 
Why would they not be attracted to him? I don't mean that in the "of course he's so hot everyone has to fall for him", sense, by the way. Reading my short post, I realised that it could sound like that. I would like to hear why you are assuming that other reasons than attraction were the cause of the affairs, @afanofbuffy .
 
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Don't all (or at least many) women say that what they want most is a guy who makes them laugh? Like quick wit? I'd say Joss could easily qualify in that regard remembering a lot of his interviews/commentaries.

And he's not...hideous or anything (disregarding personality) and he seems somewhat hard-working and ambitious and also spins a good line of bs that takes many people in.

I'm not sure it was because of masses of money or huge fame that women went for him; because on Buffy he kinda had neither.
 
I wouldn't say it is strange. We all know that Joss can be a tool, but you're assuming he was an asshole to everyone but we know that wasn't the case. He remained friends with some people (male and female) from his shows, and worked with other people on multiple projects.

As @thetopher said he can make people laugh which is always a good start, and he could be charming and charismatic when he wanted to.

He also had that mix of the confidence of success with some vulnerability and self deprecation.

He was still fairly young when Buffy started (30ish?), and as he got more and more shows he would have become more powerful and lets be honest its not unusual for powerful men to have good looking girlfriends

But it is harsh to call the women bitches for it. He may have told them that he had an open Hollywood marriage like Will and Jada !
 
Nothing funny about this at all. Ever since we came down from the trees, even before we could be called human, the tribes that would become mankind had a social order that ensured that if a female was liked by the powerful alpha male of the tribe, she would be taken care of and her children would survive. If she fell afoul of the leader, she and her children would face an uncertain (and probably short) future. The women who understood this survived and the ones who didn't died off, leaving a Darwinian predilection for powerful alpha males. This has been hardwired into the female brain over thousands of generations from before Atlantis, even before Lemuria and back into the distant recesses of time. Women gain status from the men they are with. The more outrageous and dominant he is, the better her chances of advancement, survival and ease.

There is nothing in the history of women that militates against this view. Feminism doesn't address it because it makes women look weak, so feminists pretend this doesn't exist.
You have raised a very good point. I don't know much about feminism but some women would rather choose a dominant and outrageous man for status. It's their right. The irony is when they get cheated on by that said dominant husband. It's sad. Not all dominant men cheat but some do, thinking that because of their status, it's ok to cheat. If they are JUST cheating, it's not a worry but what if they want replace their wife? Humiliating.
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Why would they not be attracted to him? I don't mean that in the "of course he's so hot everyone has to fall for him", sense, by the way. Reading my short post, I realised that it could sound like that. I would like to hear why you are assuming that other reasons than attraction were the cause of the affairs, @afanofbuffy .
Because he was the producer of that famous show and those actresses wanted to be succesful. It has nothing to do with him being hot. It's power. Perhaps very few were attracted to him but I don't think the rest of his mistresses who were his actresses were.
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Why would they not be attracted to him? I don't mean that in the "of course he's so hot everyone has to fall for him", sense, by the way. Reading my short post, I realised that it could sound like that. I would like to hear why you are assuming that other reasons than attraction were the cause of the affairs, @afanofbuffy .
Because he was the producer of that famous show and those actresses wanted to be succesful. It has nothing to do with him being hot. It's power. Perhaps very few were attracted to him but I don't think the rest of his mistresses who were his actresses were.
Don't all (or at least many) women say that what they want most is a guy who makes them laugh? Like quick wit? I'd say Joss could easily qualify in that regard remembering a lot of his interviews/commentaries.

And he's not...hideous or anything (disregarding personality) and he seems somewhat hard-working and ambitious and also spins a good line of bs that takes many people in.

I'm not sure it was because of masses of money or huge fame that women went for him; because on Buffy he kinda had neither.
It has nothing to do with him being handsome. It has more to do with power and money. I think he's fine but what if he wasn't rich? Would they have given him sexual attention? Don't think so. Wait. How wasn't he famous on Buffy? He was the producer of Buffy.
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Why would they not be attracted to him? I don't mean that in the "of course he's so hot everyone has to fall for him", sense, by the way. Reading my short post, I realised that it could sound like that. I would like to hear why you are assuming that other reasons than attraction were the cause of the affairs, @afanofbuffy .
Because he was the producer of that famous show and those actresses wanted to be succesful. It has nothing to do with him being hot. It's power. Perhaps very few were attracted to him but I don't think the rest of his mistresses who were his actresses were.
Don't all (or at least many) women say that what they want most is a guy who makes them laugh? Like quick wit? I'd say Joss could easily qualify in that regard remembering a lot of his interviews/commentaries.

And he's not...hideous or anything (disregarding personality) and he seems somewhat hard-working and ambitious and also spins a good line of bs that takes many people in.

I'm not sure it was because of masses of money or huge fame that women went for him; because on Buffy he kinda had neither.
It has nothing to do with him being handsome. It has more to do with power and money. I think he's fine but what if he wasn't rich? Would they have given him sexual attention? Don't think so. Wait. How wasn't he famous on Buffy? He was the producer of Buffy.
I wouldn't say it is strange. We all know that Joss can be a tool, but you're assuming he was an asshole to everyone but we know that wasn't the case. He remained friends with some people (male and female) from his shows, and worked with other people on multiple projects.

As @thetopher said he can make people laugh which is always a good start, and he could be charming and charismatic when he wanted to.

He also had that mix of the confidence of success with some vulnerability and self deprecation.

He was still fairly young when Buffy started (30ish?), and as he got more and more shows he would have become more powerful and lets be honest its not unusual for powerful men to have good looking girlfriends

But it is harsh to call the women bitches for it. He may have told them that he had an open Hollywood marriage like Will and Jada !
It's ok for powerful men to date good looking girlfriends, as long as they're both single. I have serious doubts they decided to have sex with him solely because of his charms and charisma. Perhaps a few did, but most did, hoping to receive some gratifications in return. How do I know? It's obvious. He's fine but I don't think all of him had sex with him solely based on his charismatic and charming attitude. I have called them bitcas which I think is much nicer. I like bitca more than bitch. It's very unlikely he told them he was in an open marriage with his wife 😂
 
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Don't anyone think it's insane how some actresses have had affairs with Whedon. I don't think they were attracted to him... Funny how when a man or a woman is rich and famous even though that said man is a disgusting asshole, some bitcas will havs no problem having sex with him, but if that disgusting asshole wasn't rich, those bitcas would never have wanted to touch him. Just a random thought that I wanted to write about.

So…wait. Somehow Whedon being a jerk makes women (are these hypothetical women?) who slept with him awful?

Some…uh…interesting opinions here. I understand not liking Joss because of how he has acted. There is totally precedent for feeling that way. Not exactly sure what the precedent is for calling women who may or may not have slept with him (whom I haven’t heard of) a somewhat nasty/gross term. 🙁

Women are people too, and who they do or don’t sleep with doesn’t define them as a person.
 
I know with Gene Roddenberry, sometimes the sexual relationships was less about attraction of any kind and more like the feeling of a need to appease a superior. The guy kinda held contracts that would keep roofs over their heads. I'd say that's a lever of coercion.
 
I think he's fine but what if he wasn't rich? Would they have given him sexual attention? Don't think so. Wait. How wasn't he famous on Buffy? He was the producer of Buffy.

Joss was the tv producer of a low budget cult show on an up-and-coming network; how powerful was he? How rich, really?
Probably not very.
Buffy was his break-out hit and the beginning of his 'moderate success' career run that lasted until...maybe Marvel's The Avengers, moving from a slew of TV shows to big budget movies, directing his own stuff, whilst picking his own projects and being generally highly sought-after as a genre king.

But back in the late nineties there were no guarantees of future success so Joss, whilst in a better place than he had been, was not any kind of towering media magnate.

I can only presume that he had other, less obvious, qualities that women found appealing even if he wasn't good looking or super-rich. Shockingly there are plenty of women who can be won over by all sorts of positive attributes. I think they're the majority actually.


Somehow Whedon being a jerk makes women (are these hypothetical women?) who slept with him awful?

Whilst I agree that some unpleasant assumptions are maybe being made I would also say that whether or not these women knew that Joss was married might actually matter.
He's a cheating dog- no question- but personally I don't have much respect for those on the other side of the adultery equation either.
Doesn't make them awful, per se, but it does tell us something about them as people.
 
Don't anyone think it's insane how some actresses have had affairs with Whedon. I don't think they were attracted to him... Funny how when a man or a woman is rich and famous even though that said man is a disgusting asshole, some bitcas will havs no problem having sex with him, but if that disgusting asshole wasn't rich, those bitcas would never have wanted to touch him. Just a random thought that I wanted to write about.
I don't think it's insane (after all, it happens all the time), but it was certainly ill-advised. My assumption is that these young women slept with Joss because they thought it would further their careers. He abused his power, they were victims.
 
Victims? Maybe some of them, but a lot of actresses saw the casting couch as a place where they could take some director and rock his world with sufficiently spectacular sex that no director could possibly resist them. There is enough sleaze to go around on both sides. Women can be rapists just like after Xander rescued Faith from something that was about to get her and he lost his V card. And later when Xander came back to her hotel, she almost killed him with sex.
 
It depends on how the question arises.
lf the alpha male makes a speech like "either come to bed with me or I won't let you work" I would say it is full-blown abuse.
This is why the "me-too" movement was born, because this phenomenon is very widespread.

Side note 1: To hear, again in 2022, calling the woman with certain titles is truly disturbing.

Side note 2: Affirming that a cavewoman dwelling still lives in every woman, which forces her into instrumental submission in order to survive, cancels years and years of evolution of the species.

The Feminis has abundantly argued these issues, it is enough to take a tour of a bookstore and you will find a vast literature on the subject under discussion.

Oh and don't forget the free will, the woman can choose the life she wants to live and not for that you have to insult her.
 
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It’s not our place to judge anyone based on their decisions. We have no evidence that these alleged affairs (yes, sure, there were some, but we don’t know the details because it’s none of our business) are still going on, and thus how can you possibly pass judgement upon what someone did years ago? It doesn’t necessarily mean they’d still do it again. Whedon has done some bad, messed up, twisted things. I sincerely hope he’s changed his ways (though I think we have no evidence to make us think he has).

As for whichever women were involved, let us please be kind and understanding. Even if we don’t agree with their decisions, they are real, actual people with feelings, and we have no idea what they were feeling or thinking at the time.

Now, let’s be clear. These are bad things. Affairs, manipulation, taking advantage of people? Horrible. And it’s not necessarily all Whedon. The women involved may very well not have been simply “victims”. Nevertheless, would you rather be the kind of person who lifts these people up, and desires good for them going forwards, or would you rather be the person gossiping snidely behind their backs?

Be kind to the fellow humans. 🙂
 
So…wait. Somehow Whedon being a jerk makes women (are these hypothetical women?) who slept with him awful?

Some…uh…interesting opinions here. I understand not liking Joss because of how he has acted. There is totally precedent for feeling that way. Not exactly sure what the precedent is for calling women who may or may not have slept with him (whom I haven’t heard of) a somewhat nasty/gross term. 🙁

Women are people too, and who they do or don’t sleep with doesn’t define them as a person.
It's not that I don't like him. In fact I couldn't care less about him. I just asked out of curiosity. Naturally if they knew he was married, it made them awful.
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I know with Gene Roddenberry, sometimes the sexual relationships was less about attraction of any kind and more like the feeling of a need to appease a superior. The guy kinda held contracts that would keep roofs over their heads. I'd say that's a lever of coercion.
That's disgusting. Ugh. It's sad though.
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I know with Gene Roddenberry, sometimes the sexual relationships was less about attraction of any kind and more like the feeling of a need to appease a superior. The guy kinda held contracts that would keep roofs over their heads. I'd say that's a lever of coercion.
That's disgusting. Ugh. It's sad though.
Joss was the tv producer of a low budget cult show on an up-and-coming network; how powerful was he? How rich, really?
Probably not very.
Buffy was his break-out hit and the beginning of his 'moderate success' career run that lasted until...maybe Marvel's The Avengers, moving from a slew of TV shows to big budget movies, directing his own stuff, whilst picking his own projects and being generally highly sought-after as a genre king.

But back in the late nineties there were no guarantees of future success so Joss, whilst in a better place than he had been, was not any kind of towering media magnate.

I can only presume that he had other, less obvious, qualities that women found appealing even if he wasn't good looking or super-rich. Shockingly there are plenty of women who can be won over by all sorts of positive attributes. I think they're the majority actually.




Whilst I agree that some unpleasant assumptions are maybe being made I would also say that whether or not these women knew that Joss was married might actually matter.
He's a cheating dog- no question- but personally I don't have much respect for those on the other side of the adultery equation either.
Doesn't make them awful, per se, but it does tell us something about them as people.
Exactly. It does tell something about them as people. They are opportunists.
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I know with Gene Roddenberry, sometimes the sexual relationships was less about attraction of any kind and more like the feeling of a need to appease a superior. The guy kinda held contracts that would keep roofs over their heads. I'd say that's a lever of coercion.
That's disgusting. Ugh. It's sad though.
Joss was the tv producer of a low budget cult show on an up-and-coming network; how powerful was he? How rich, really?
Probably not very.
Buffy was his break-out hit and the beginning of his 'moderate success' career run that lasted until...maybe Marvel's The Avengers, moving from a slew of TV shows to big budget movies, directing his own stuff, whilst picking his own projects and being generally highly sought-after as a genre king.

But back in the late nineties there were no guarantees of future success so Joss, whilst in a better place than he had been, was not any kind of towering media magnate.

I can only presume that he had other, less obvious, qualities that women found appealing even if he wasn't good looking or super-rich. Shockingly there are plenty of women who can be won over by all sorts of positive attributes. I think they're the majority actually.




Whilst I agree that some unpleasant assumptions are maybe being made I would also say that whether or not these women knew that Joss was married might actually matter.
He's a cheating dog- no question- but personally I don't have much respect for those on the other side of the adultery equation either.
Doesn't make them awful, per se, but it does tell us something about them as people.
Exactly. It does tell something about them as people. They are opportunists.
I don't think it's insane (after all, it happens all the time), but it was certainly ill-advised. My assumption is that these young women slept with Joss because they thought it would further their careers. He abused his power, they were victims.
They weren't victims. They knew what they were doing. It's unlikely they call themselves victims and if they did, they're insulting those who are actually victims.
 
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Nothing funny about this at all. Ever since we came down from the trees, even before we could be called human, the tribes that would become mankind had a social order that ensured that if a female was liked by the powerful alpha male of the tribe, she would be taken care of and her children would survive. If she fell afoul of the leader, she and her children would face an uncertain (and probably short) future. The women who understood this survived and the ones who didn't died off, leaving a Darwinian predilection for powerful alpha males. This has been hardwired into the female brain over thousands of generations from before Atlantis, even before Lemuria and back into the distant recesses of time. Women gain status from the men they are with. The more outrageous and dominant he is, the better her chances of advancement, survival and ease.

There is nothing in the history of women that militates against this view. Feminism doesn't address it because it makes women look weak, so feminists pretend this doesn't exist.

I don't think people deny the science or history of choosing mates or anything, I just personally always get a bit frustrated with any argument that starts with anything to do with nature because it's just funny to me, we live very unnaturally and nothing like animals but when it comes to gender it always comes back to the animal kingdom. It's not just with gender but I guess what I mean is that it feels like cherry picking from very true science and history.
 
I know with Gene Roddenberry, sometimes the sexual relationships was less about attraction of any kind and more like the feeling of a need to appease a superior. The guy kinda held contracts that would keep roofs over their heads. I'd say that's a lever of coercion.
That's disgusting. Ugh. It's sad though.
Joss was the tv producer of a low budget cult show on an up-and-coming network; how powerful was he? How rich, really?
Probably not very.
Buffy was his break-out hit and the beginning of his 'moderate success' career run that lasted until...maybe Marvel's The Avengers, moving from a slew of TV shows to big budget movies, directing his own stuff, whilst picking his own projects and being generally highly sought-after as a genre king.

But back in the late nineties there were no guarantees of future success so Joss, whilst in a better place than he had been, was not any kind of towering media magnate.

I can only presume that he had other, less obvious, qualities that women found appealing even if he wasn't good looking or super-rich. Shockingly there are plenty of women who can be won over by all sorts of positive attributes. I think they're the majority actually.




Whilst I agree that some unpleasant assumptions are maybe being made I would also say that whether or not these women knew that Joss was married might actually matter.
He's a cheating dog- no question- but personally I don't have much respect for those on the other side of the adultery equation either.
Doesn't make them awful, per se, but it does tell us something about them as people.
Exactly. It does tell something about them as people. They are opportunists.
I don't think it's insane (after all, it happens all the time), but it was certainly ill-advised. My assumption is that these young women slept with Joss because they thought it would further their careers. He abused his power, they were victims.
They weren't victims. They knew what they were doing. It's unlikely they call themselves victims and if they did, they're insulting those who are actually victims.
Victims? Maybe some of them, but a lot of actresses saw the casting couch as a place where they could take some director and rock his world with sufficiently spectacular sex that no director could possibly resist them. There is enough sleaze to go around on both sides. Women can be rapists just like after Xander rescued Faith from something that was about to get her and he lost his V card. And later when Xander came back to her hotel, she almost killed him with sex.
I don't understand how it's so hard for those directors to walk away from temptation. They must be weak. It's interesting you've mentioned female rapists. They're not very common. What does "she almost killed him with sex" mean?
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It depends on how the question arises.
lf the alpha male makes a speech like "either come to bed with me or I won't let you work" I would say it is full-blown abuse.
This is why the "me-too" movement was born, because this phenomenon is very widespread.

Side note 1: To hear, again in 2022, calling the woman with certain titles is truly disturbing.

Side note 2: Affirming that a cavewoman dwelling still lives in every woman, which forces her into instrumental submission in order to survive, cancels years and years of evolution of the species.

The Feminis has abundantly argued these issues, it is enough to take a tour of a bookstore and you will find a vast literature on the subject under discussion.

Oh and don't forget the free will, the woman can choose the life she wants to live and not for that you have to insult her.
I'm not insulting them.
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It depends on how the question arises.
lf the alpha male makes a speech like "either come to bed with me or I won't let you work" I would say it is full-blown abuse.
This is why the "me-too" movement was born, because this phenomenon is very widespread.

Side note 1: To hear, again in 2022, calling the woman with certain titles is truly disturbing.

Side note 2: Affirming that a cavewoman dwelling still lives in every woman, which forces her into instrumental submission in order to survive, cancels years and years of evolution of the species.

The Feminis has abundantly argued these issues, it is enough to take a tour of a bookstore and you will find a vast literature on the subject under discussion.

Oh and don't forget the free will, the woman can choose the life she wants to live and not for that you have to insult her.
I'm not insulting them.
It’s not our place to judge anyone based on their decisions. We have no evidence that these alleged affairs (yes, sure, there were some, but we don’t know the details because it’s none of our business) are still going on, and thus how can you possibly pass judgement upon what someone did years ago? It doesn’t necessarily mean they’d still do it again. Whedon has done some bad, messed up, twisted things. I sincerely hope he’s changed his ways (though I think we have no evidence to make us think he has).

As for whichever women were involved, let us please be kind and understanding. Even if we don’t agree with their decisions, they are real, actual people with feelings, and we have no idea what they were feeling or thinking at the time.

Now, let’s be clear. These are bad things. Affairs, manipulation, taking advantage of people? Horrible. And it’s not necessarily all Whedon. The women involved may very well not have been simply “victims”. Nevertheless, would you rather be the kind of person who lifts these people up, and desires good for them going forwards, or would you rather be the person gossiping snidely behind their backs?

Be kind to the fellow humans. 🙂
I would rather be kind.
 
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Nothing funny about this at all. Ever since we came down from the trees, even before we could be called human, the tribes that would become mankind had a social order that ensured that if a female was liked by the powerful alpha male of the tribe, she would be taken care of and her children would survive. If she fell afoul of the leader, she and her children would face an uncertain (and probably short) future. The women who understood this survived and the ones who didn't died off, leaving a Darwinian predilection for powerful alpha males. This has been hardwired into the female brain over thousands of generations from before Atlantis, even before Lemuria and back into the distant recesses of time. Women gain status from the men they are with. The more outrageous and dominant he is, the better her chances of advancement, survival and ease.

There is nothing in the history of women that militates against this view. Feminism doesn't address it because it makes women look weak, so feminists pretend this doesn't exist.
Sorry but that's Stefan Molyneux style nonsense and a misconception that I think needs to be dealt with as it is pitting lots of young men and women against each other.

Fact is that yes we are animals, but we have changed since we were cavemen. I don't get why people always use that "it's in our nature" argument for anything as though there is some set law in nature. The whole point of evolution is that species change and adapt and can do so in a short space of time. Human behaviour has clearly changed in the last several thousand years alone. Modern woman doesn't need to worry about marrying the strongest who can protect their children from wild animals. That's as outdated an evolutionary concept as having a tail to swing on a tree!

Fact is modern men and women value things like compatibility and interests, and humour when choosing a mate as those are more important in a modern environment than if a guy can brain another guy. About 99 percent of men don't even get a chance to prove they are alphas. Seriously? How is a guy who works a 9-5 office job going to prove he is an alpha? A guy who works in a shop? Even an actor on set? Also in my experience big, strong, alpha men are very rarely pin ups to women.

Tell me who was more of a pin up to girls? Vinnie Jones or David Tennant? Justin Bieber or Sylvester Stallone? Johnny Depp or Bruce Lee (I personally don't get that as I always thought Bruce Lee was hot, but that's apparently less common than Johnny Depp.) Davy Jones or Charles Atlas?

That's not to say that you don't get big alpha types like say Angel that women like. Still it's a wide spectrum.

As for the original question, with Joss who knows what went on in these affairs. I don't doubt some of them were probably young actresses hoping to get head, or groupies wanting to be with the big guy, but that is common again among both men and women.

There is quite a fascinating parallel to be drawn between Joss Whedon and John Nathan Turner, the producer of True Doctor Who during the 80s. Like Joss he was someone the fans built up, who took more of an interest in them and who let it get to his head and became a tyrant on set. Like Joss he also shagged his way through the fans and the office staff too, however unlike Joss he was gay and it was all men, who behaved in exactly the same way the women around Joss did. IE they'd sleep with him maybe to get ahead, to be with the big guy who did their favourite show. (JNT even called the fans he shagged as doable barkers.)

It's quite interesting that the young fanboys did the same thing as the girls, when put in that position. Fan culture is an ugly thing in some ways.
 
I'm not sure it was because of masses of money or huge fame that women went for him; because on Buffy he kinda had neither.
By the time Buffy started up (the Unaired Pilot in Spring 1996), Whedon was worth about $25 million+.

Also, Whedon wrote Toy Story and was one of the most sought after script-doctors when the good ones made $100,000+ per week.

So..... Whedon was very famous and had lots of money and a wandering eye.....
 
thetopher
thetopher
Hmn, interesting. The more you know, etc :)
They weren't victims. They knew what they were doing. It's unlikely they call themselves victims and if they did, they're insulting those who are actually victims.
That depends on how victim is defined.

If you have a system where young women can't get ahead without fxxking the men above them, is deciding to fxxk a career decision or sexual abuse?
 
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