Something Blue

[thetopher]

From Spike's perspective? Perhaps, but not quite. From his very first episode his quest to kill Buffy was mixed with a twisted desire. He gets off on the violence, as he states, so he gets off on fighting her. Even when she kicks his ass on the regular he keeps on returning to Sunnydale to try and kill her.
As of S4 Spike shows seething contempt for Buffy and all her friends but obviously with Buffy there is the promise on one day he will get his violent kill with no shocks to the brain.

I do wonder if the chip shocked him in his sleep when he was dreaming about killing. Not fantasizing like he was when awake but unconsciously when he couldn't control it? It would explain why his dreams turned from 'kill' to 'kiss', as a defense mechanism to spare the pain.

Anyway his obsession changed in its nature and he so he ended up loving Buffy, but that wasn't exactly the same as what we saw in 'Something Blue'; in 'Something Blue' Spike still has a bit of sass and doesn't really have any desire to change for Buffy- asking her to give up the slaying, for example- whereas later on he is trying to change for her, he spends a lot of S5 learning how, and then for much of S6 showing why is isn't nearly enough.


Thinking about it I'm not sure I buy Spike's S7 declarations. He's tormented by visions, blacking out and murdering people and such, I'm not sure he's stable enough that I could say that his emotions are strong and sincere. Maybe its more projection; he's a romantic after all.


From Buffy's? Nope. She shows contempt for Spike for everything post S5 'Crush', then its disgust, then its confusion. There's some lust in S6 mixed in with her own self-loathing. Then in S7 her guilt is the thing guiding her in regards to Spike 'being a kind of man' and her investment in that. But it was never love.

 

[garfan]

Yes, out of universe, it is a chemistry thing. But JM has tons of chemistry. In universe, I find it interesting that, as @silvermoon pointed out, Buffy is only ever attracted to Spike when there is something wrong with her.



Going by something @NoShip said, this was thanks to Marti Noxon playing out her JM fantasies with flesh puppets, which only got worse.

In universe, it makes no sense. Spike has proven himself to be a complete creep. Sure, he resisted torture, but what if Glory tried again more intelligently? Yes, I know, Glory and intelligence don't exactly go hand in hand, but what if she had offered Spike what he really wanted, instead of torturing him? The chip out and Buffy served up on a silver platter. Spike was too great a risk to keep alive, and Buffy should have staked him (and he never deserved a kiss) to end the threat after she found out what she needed. Instead, she kept him alive and it got her killed (because thanks to Spike stealing something slow, Dawn was captured, and thanks to Spike failing to stop Doc, Buffy threw herself into the portal).

except at that point Spike didn't want to kill Buffy, he'd even stopped in an attempt to kill her because he saw she was sad. So, that would not be what he wanted

 

[NotASlayer]

except at that point Spike didn't want to kill Buffy, he'd even stopped in an attempt to kill her because he saw she was sad. So, that would not be what he wanted

I said he wanted Buffy on a silver platter, not that he wanted her dead.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

At one point, Spike took a shotgun over to Buffy's house with the clear intent, as he told Harmony, to kill her. But when he got there, Buffy was sad, so he comforted her rather than trying to kill her.

As far as "Something Blue" is concerned, we see evidence that the spell does not wear off. Demons keep finding "demon magnet" Xander, Giles loses his vision and gets it back but loses his leadership and Spike and Buffy remain obsessed with each other with Buffy alternating between love and revulsion but still with Spike constantly on her mind. I would go along with people who say the spell did not get completely reversed, so everything continued, just at a lesser level.

 

[NoShip]

Was this episode accurate? As in, do you think the feelings Buffy and Spike expressed under the spell were true? Considering what happened later? I know this post will bring out the Spike admirers (cough) but I always thought what they said actually was true. Especially when Buffy says something about how they alway argued because they couldn't admit how they really felt to one another. Yes my sentences are long, but my Buffy love is real

Spike was into Buffy the way Spike was into anything else in his unlife - violently & obsessively & amorally.

Spike "loves" Buffy the same way he "loved" Harmony in Harsh Light of Day & he "loved" Dru throughout S2. Its a selfish, possessive, abusive form of "love". Something Blue shows how completely out of touch with reality and uninterested in Buffy Spike actually is. Everything about them, throughout the episode, Spike makes about himself. Spike is constantly telling Buffy what she can and can't do, can't wear and even demands that she stop slaying so he can keep his current friend group.

So their words kinda say romance but their actions scream abuse. A very accurate forshadowing of their "relationship" between Something Blue and Chosen.

 

[garfan]

Spike was into Buffy the way Spike was into anything else in his unlife - violently & obsessively & amorally.

Spike "loves" Buffy the same way he "loved" Harmony in Harsh Light of Day & he "loved" Dru throughout S2. Its a selfish, possessive, abusive form of "love". Something Blue shows how completely out of touch with reality and uninterested in Buffy Spike actually is. Everything about them, throughout the episode, Spike makes about himself. Spike is constantly telling Buffy what she can and can't do, can't wear and even demands that she stop slaying so he can keep his current friend group.

So their words kinda say romance but their actions scream abuse. A very accurate forshadowing of their "relationship" between Something Blue and Chosen.

Spike does not treat Harmony the same way he treat Buffy and Dru. I am quite sure he'd find Dru babbling about turning some celebrity like Harmony with Antonio Banderas endearing. Hell, the ease in which he staked her shows he didn't care about her the same way

 

[hoponlilmama]

Buffy told him that because she knew he wanted to hear it. I believe it was her way of saying thank you for the sacrifice he was about to make. And his response, "No, you don't...but thanks for saying it," indicated that he knew she didn't mean it.

Yep, kind words to a dying man.

Post automatically merged: Jul 20, 2025

Blue and Buffy had a kind of sweet chemistry but not the earth-shattering, I read you like a phone book, passionate tumult Buffy and Spike had.

I'm curious - do you think their 'relationship' was passionate just because of the sex scene in Smashed? And the fact they had JM wearing nothing but a sock probably skews the opinion there for folks.

Buffy never got the actual chance to be truly passionate with Angel so it's a bit of an unfair comparison for those two.

To me they had awesome chemistry.

They did, but that's the charm and acting talents of JM - he had chemistry with everyone. 😀

Riley and Buffy were sort of like high school sweethearts who could never quite make it work. Angel and Buffy were a doomed Romeo and Juliet

So wouldn't Spike and Buffy be? If Bangel (a vamp and a Slayer) were doomed, then surely the same can be said for Spuffy? What makes it any different?

but I could never stand his character so never really enjoyed their romance. He would return to watch over her and became like her guardian angel. I thought Whedon copped out in 7 when Angel returned and Buffy was telling Angel basically that she did think of a future with him. Then turned around and told Spike she loved him. Make up your mind, woman. Whedon I think admitted he wanted to leave a door open there for Angel. She wasn't finished baking, yeah, whatever.

That got a bit soap-opera like.
But, Buffy did state that she didn't see a future with Spike, and the door was left open.

I'm glad in the end we got 'cookie dough' Buffy. She doesn't need to ride off into the sunset with a man to be complete, the writers did good there.

 

[Btvs fan]

Yep, kind words to a dying man.

Post automatically merged: Jul 20, 2025

I'm curious - do you think their 'relationship' was passionate just because of the sex scene in Smashed? And the fact they had JM wearing nothing but a sock probably skews the opinion there for folks.

Buffy never got the actual chance to be truly passionate with Angel so it's a bit of an unfair comparison for those two.


They did, but that's the charm and acting talents of JM - he had chemistry with everyone. 😀


So wouldn't Spike and Buffy be? If Bangel (a vamp and a Slayer) were doomed, then surely the same can be said for Spuffy? What makes it any different?


That got a bit soap-opera like.
But, Buffy did state that she didn't see a future with Spike, and the door was left open.

I'm glad in the end we got 'cookie dough' Buffy. She doesn't need to ride off into the sunset with a man to be complete, the writers did good there.

It was essentially Joss trying cater to 2 groups of shippers without annoying the other group.

 

[hoponlilmama]

It was essentially Joss trying cater to 2 groups of shippers without annoying the other group.

Oh, I know. And that's why it becomes a bit soap opera, Twilighty stuff, which is unfortunate.

 

[NotASlayer]

At one point, Spike took a shotgun over to Buffy's house with the clear intent, as he told Harmony, to kill her. But when he got there, Buffy was sad, so he comforted her rather than trying to kill her.

And if she had composed herself before she went outdoors, or before Spike saw her, he would have shot her.

As far as "Something Blue" is concerned, we see evidence that the spell does not wear off. Demons keep finding "demon magnet" Xander, Giles loses his vision and gets it back but loses his leadership and Spike and Buffy remain obsessed with each other with Buffy alternating between love and revulsion but still with Spike constantly on her mind. I would go along with people who say the spell did not get completely reversed, so everything continued, just at a lesser level.

Xander did have a prior history of being attracted to demons, ex-demons and Slayers. Cordelia was his only normal attraction. And she became a seer and half demon.

With Buffy, though, I cannot see the spell continuing to affect her. Because she died. Death is the ending of things. Spike, yes, the spell, the chip and the monk's spell could all have interacted with his already twisted Slayer obsession that greatly revolved around sex and death - he and Dru did have sex over and probably on the body of a dead Slayer - and twisted it even further.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Spike does not treat Harmony the same way he treat Buffy and Dru.

Harmony treated him like a rock star and came running at the drop of a hat. Plus, her constant non-stop chatter must've drove him around the bend.. Not to mention the fact that she's completely insane.

Spike likes a challenge. Harmony and Dru were too easy. No challenge at all. Enter Buffy, who fit the bill perfectly. Yes, initially he'd planned to kill her but after awhile he became rather fascinated with this Slayer.

 

[BaskingINBangel]

Angel and Buffy were a doomed Romeo and Juliet

I honestly have never understood equating Buffy and Angel to Romeo and Juliet. Romeo & Juliet chose romantic love above societal expectations and their own lives. The whole romantic love or nothing trope. That sounds more like Spike's idea of love.

Both Buffy and Angel chose their duties and societal responsibilities over their romantic love. I suppose maybe its the whole "doomed" love thing that makes people equate the two ships. Anyways not an attack on you, just a small nitpick that has never made sense to me.

They did, but that's the charm and acting talents of JM - he had chemistry with everyone. 😀

Both he and Eliza have that type of chemistry with everyone. Those two could be shipped with anyone they play adjacent to, imo. 😁

I'm glad in the end we got 'cookie dough' Buffy. She doesn't need to ride off into the sunset with a man to be complete, the writers did good there.

Agree. Even though I would have loved a Bangel happy ending, I really think that was the best possible outcome for her at that time.

 

[NoShip]

Spike was too great a risk to keep alive, and Buffy should have staked him (and he never deserved a kiss) to end the threat after she found out what she needed. Instead, she kept him alive and it got her killed (because thanks to Spike stealing something slow, Dawn was captured, and thanks to Spike failing to stop Doc, Buffy threw herself into the portal).

Well..... Jane Espensen just did happen to write Intervention. Nonsensecal Spuffy beats that have no reason to occur really are Jane's specialty.

 

[NotASlayer]

Well..... Jane Espensen just did happen to write Intervention. Nonsensecal Spuffy beats that have no reason to occur really are Jane's specialty.

You wonder how things would have turned out if some of the major writers had not fancied James.

 

[garfan]

You wonder how things would have turned out if some of the major writers had not fancied James.

well, the network wanted him there so he wasn't going to die

 

[NotASlayer]

well, the network wanted him there so he wasn't going to die

Though if they hadn't fancied him, I can't imagine we'd have had the awful storylines we did; no constantly putting him in situations where the only sane and intelligent thing to do is to kill him. I mean, this is a character who, by the end of Angel, was only missed by Andrew. Even Buffy didn't care in the slightest about him being back from the dead. If he'd been staked at any point, he would not have been missed in universe.

 

[garfan]

Though if they hadn't fancied him, I can't imagine we'd have had the awful storylines we did; no constantly putting him in situations where the only sane and intelligent thing to do is to kill him. I mean, this is a character who, by the end of Angel, was only missed by Andrew. Even Buffy didn't care in the slightest about him being back from the dead. If he'd been staked at any point, he would not have been missed in universe.

you assume Buffy knew he was back. That's never confirmed

 

[NotASlayer]

you assume Buffy knew he was back. That's never confirmed

So Andrew would never have told anyone? I can't really see that happening. And that's Andrew alone. There is no way Buffy didn't know. No, with Spike gone, Buffy had promptly moved on. Something she was never able to do with Angel.

 

[garfan]

So Andrew would never have told anyone? I can't really see that happening. And that's Andrew alone. There is no way Buffy didn't know. No, with Spike gone, Buffy had promptly moved on. Something she was never able to do with Angel.

Or he just never told Buffy, and nobody told her. We never actually see her in The Girl in Question since they couldn't get SMG and the comics have that not actually her, so we don't actually know that whatever Buffy is actually doing that she regularly inflicts Andrew on herself

Simple fact, I do not see Buffy getting this info second hand. If Spike isn't telling her, or she isn't running into him herself, she doesn't know

 

[NotASlayer]

Or he just never told Buffy, and nobody told her. We never actually see her in The Girl in Question since they couldn't get SMG and the comics have that not actually her, so we don't actually know that whatever Buffy is actually doing that she regularly inflicts Andrew on herself

Simple fact, I do not see Buffy getting this info second hand. If Spike isn't telling her, or she isn't running into him herself, she doesn't know

Literally dozens of Slayers knew about Spike. And who knows how many others? The idea that not one single person would have mentioned him being alive, especially as one of the Slayers had kidnapped Spike and chopped off his hands, is pretty far fetched. Even The Girl in Question shows just how fast Buffy had moved on. Angel sent to a hell dimension? Runs off for months and still doesn't get over him. Spike goes up in smoke? Next! (The comics are irrelevant by this point.)