Something I dont get....

A

Angels baby101

I hath Returned! MWhaha
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Ok Buffy Killed herself for Dawn in the gift..... we all know that i thinks ok well anyways she went to heaven.... well how? isn't commiting suicide.... an unforgiven sin??? and if so how can buffy have gone to heaven!?!?!? i dont know if this is true i haven't been to church since i was 3
 
Well, what I consider suicide isn't what Buffy did. Like, when you're cutting yourself, you're the one cutting into your skin. Your forcing a blade into yourself. When Buffy jumped, the energy killed her; she didn't force it to. But there are different ways of looking at that. Some people might say that it was her decision to jump and she knew what it would do, so it is suicide. And also, if you believe suicide is an unforgiven sin, then that belief can be different from the Buffyverse's version of how that works.
 
Oh i thought what she did was for people this is something me and my mom are fighting about i think she went to heaven because she did it to save her sister and the world but my mom thinks she shouldn't have either way...
 
Yeah, I have a question also. If Buffy and Dawn have the same blood, and Dawns blood opened the protal, wouldnt both Buffy and Dawn have to jump before it closed? Because Dawns blood was still flowing even after Buffy died and closed it. Its too confusing for me!
 
Originally posted by Angels baby101
Oh i thought what she did was for people this is something me and my mom are fighting about i think she went to heaven because she did it to save her sister and the world
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That's one way of looking at it. What she was trying to do was close the walls between dimensions (i.e. save the world). If she had managed to do that and somehow *live*, that would have just been icing on the cake. It's the sort of situation that comes up a lot in wartime.

(Basically, suicide was not her intent, although she was putting her life at great risk.)
 
isn't commiting suicide.... an unforgiven sin and if so how can buffy have gone to heaven!?!?!?
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I agree with FiveByFive (We agree on a lot - it's only her taste in men I question. 😛 ) Buffy allowed herself to be martyred. evem though the jumped, rather than comit suicide. It was to save others, not to escape life.

Also (and I'm just putting this out there because I have strong feelings about it. I'm not trying to preach, so don't flame me), I don't believe that people that commit suicide automatically go to hell. I think that God judges us not only by our actions, but by the state of our hearts, and circumstances. This means that 1) we can never be the one to say who will and won't go to heaven and 2) I don't believe that people who are so distraught with dispair are damned to more eternal despair. I don't think God likes it, I consider it a sin, but I don't think every sinner is barred from heaven. In short, I believe in redemption after death. 😛

OK, on that note.....sorry for the tirade.
 
Tyra, are you saying that Buffy thought that maybe she wouldn't die when she jumped? I don't know; that kind of confuses me because I never saw it that way. Wasn't dying sort of required to close the portal thingy?

Originally posted by Diminished_9th
I agree with FiveByFive (We agree on a lot - it's only her taste in men I question. 😛 )
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😛 Don't go thinking the feeling ain't mutual...
 
Originally posted by FiveByFiveB
Tyra, are you saying that Buffy thought that maybe she wouldn't die when she jumped? I don't know; that kind of confuses me because I never saw it that way. Wasn't dying sort of required to close the portal thingy?
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As I understood it, it was the blood ("Summers blood") -- all of it -- that was supposedly required to close the portal, and Buffy offered all of hers instead of Dawn's (although technically it was still in her body).

She must have known the odds for survival were grim, and was clearly willing to risk her life, but it wouldn't have been the first time she'd gotten though similarly bad situations (like when she made Angel drain her blood to cure him of the mystical poison in "Graduation Day Pt 2"). As for the fall from the tower, Spike survived it, and there was an off chance that that if the portal energies got what they wanted and went away without killing her, she could have survived the fall, too.

(Of course, it would have ruined the plot, but hey... 🙂)
 
Isn't it very much alike to what jesus did, letting himself die in order to save others? If you look at it, from that perspective, I guess Buffy didn't commit suicide and surely went to heaven!
 
The one thing I don't understand is that why Willow and the
others thought Buffy was in an Hell diminison? I mean, come on they had to had some common sense that Buffy killed vampires,
demons, and she sarifice herself to save Dawn. Why would she be in a hell diminison for saving her sister?
 
Because she jumped through some interdimensional portal thing, so they're really couldn't have known where she went!
 
Buffy knew she was going to die. She told Dawn that she had to live, for her.

Since she jumped and killed herself in the best interest of the entire world... she did not commit suicide.
She was a martyr.

Everybody thought she was in a Hell dimension becuase she jumped into the dimensional portal from Hell... so putting two and two together... I think they assumed.

Buffy totally had a right to be sent to Heaven when she died.
 
i agree that Buffy jumped to save the world, but i think that on some level it was a way out for her. If you look at the rest of season 5 Buffy finds the weight of slaying and responsibilty of Dawn too much(espaecially in ep. "weight of the world"). In her death Buffy managed to save the world and all her friends/family. I think deep down she wanted it. this is only my opinion though!!! 🙂
 
*points up*

with all that said, i think it was the WB's dodgy way of making it as HARD as possible for UPN to successsful bring the show (let alone buffy herself) back to life.
they needed a death just in case
and this was an easy way out
however it left hole, but that was another networks problem
plus if you look at it from one angle
there are noholes, from another angle there are, they cant please everyone, thats why its fiction

but i dont belive in any way that buffy should have gone anywhere but heaven
i think the main reason they assumed that shed gone to a hell dimension is because they didnt want to even think how selfish they were being if they took her back from somewhere more 'heavenly' because they needed her, it had to be a 'we need to save her' style thing not a 'we want her back, too bad if sshe doesnt wanna come back"
 
i think it was the WB's dodgy way of making it as HARD as possible for UPN to successsful bring the show (let alone buffy herself) back to life.
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Did the WB have that kind of say about the story line? My impression has always been that Joss has full control over the story line. Did the the WB dictate her death in this case?


i think the main reason they assumed that shed gone to a hell dimension is because they didnt want to even think how selfish they were being if they took her back from somewhere more 'heavenly' because they needed her, it had to be a 'we need to save her' style thing not a 'we want her back, too bad if sshe doesnt wanna come back"
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This might be, but one thing I've noticed is that no one EVER mentioned anything about heavenly demensions until Buffy came back. I don't know about you, but it never occurred to me that there were heavenly ddimensions in the Buffyverse. True, Willow and everyone would have known, but we didn't. So, when it happened, did anyone in the audience suspect she had been in heaven?
 
i don't think that the WB had any part in the story. i read in an interview with SMG that Joss Whedon had been planning her death since season 2.

About her friends thinking that Buffy was in a hell dimension, i think that it was a mixture of denial/wanting her back and geniune belief that she needed saving. Take the examle of Fred, Cordy and Connor's experiences with portals in "Angel," and Angel's death with Acathla in season 2 of Buffy - it does seem possible that her soul was trapped in a torturous place.
 
we dont know how the heaven and hell concept works! maybe in the Buffyverse, killing yourself doesnt make you go to hell, plus, Buffy said that this earth is hell, so maybe thats why she went to heaven!
 
The earth became hell to her. It was metaphorical.

Anyway, Tyra had the answer way up top. Buffy never intended to kill herself. She intended to close the portal. She was pretty sure that the portal would kill her, but that doesn't make it suicide.

Self-sacrifice is good, and self-destruction is bad. It's a fine distinction, but a critical one to the topic. The difference is in intent.

Of course, it depends on what religion you're using as a guideline. Many religions encourage suicide when done for the proper reasons.
 
Well....You all have your points.But I think Buffy went to heaven becasue she saved the world like....Always!!!!She always put her life in risk to save other peoples!!!That counts for alot!!!!!!!She was honest and truthfull and she sacrificed HER for Dawn!!!!That is why she went up and not down!!!!!!



Saving the world daily and than dieing to save dawn is totally brave...I think Buffy deserved everything she got after life!!!HEAVEN!!!!`(im not flaming off my the way)


I wonder what woulda happened to the world if willow left buffy in peace.Would it be destroyed or what???


Cherry
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First : I think that they assumed that since the portal was to open all the gates of Hell, essentially, then that's "obviously" where she would have gone.


And going back to the first post: A man has no greater love than one who is willing to lay down his life for another.

Or "slayer" and "her sister" can be used for this specific situation.
 
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