Spike and Buffy

[white avenger]

(Now, before anybody starts belaboring the "Bangel vs Spuffy" issue, this hasn't anything to do with that.)

Spike loved Buffy to the limits of his being, both before AND after he won his soul, but my question is this: What did she ever do to EARN his love? It just seems to me that she spent more time using and abusing him and taking advantage of his feelings than she ever did appreciating them.

 

[Joyce Summers]

I hate to sound so cliche and cheesy but sometimes love can't be explained and can rarely be reasoned. Even Spike realized that to love her was wrong and unexplainable but he couldn't help it. He just fell for her- it didn't matter how she treated him return, he just loved everything that she was no matter what she did if that made any sense?
As Spike said in Lover's Walk 'Love isn't brains children, it's blood screaming inside of you to work it's will' and I think that was definitely the case with his love for Buffy. No matter how she treated him or how wrong he knew it was to feel this way, he just couldn't help it. It's very tragically romantic when you think about it and I think that fits what he was like as William- the tragic sweet romantic type. And he had an unrequited love there didn't he with Cecily? She treated him awfully, but he still had feelings for her no matter what- which is why he goes off into the street crying...ironically leading him into the arms of Drusilla. Or fangs as it were.

 

[Spike Angelus]

I always thought he ended up loving Buffy because with the chip, he couldn't hurt her, and so the feeling of hate he had for the Slayer turned into love, I feeling he COULD express to her.

 

[groovygarden]

I think Spike and Buffy always had some kind of strange vibe and physical attraction thing going on, even if, at the early stage, it just meant they would enjoy killing each other that little bit more.

For example, in Season 2: "What's my line", Kendra is fighting Spike, Buffy is fighting someone else, and we get this little exchange:

Buffy (to Kendra): Switch!
Spike: "I'd rather be fighting you anyway."
Buffy: "Mutual."

Ever since he found out about them, Spike had been drawn to slayers - their power, it's dark source and the challenge (and power-trip) of facing one. I can't remember the episode, but in Season 6, after a session with Buffy, he says something like "I knew it. I knew the only thing better than killing a slayer would be f...". Nice. But it illustrates the point.

Like Joyce said above, I don't think Buffy had to earn his love - it just happened. He'd always been attracted to her physically and on a fighting-and-exchanging-witty-quips level, but avec chip, when he was spending time with Buff and the Scoobs, he learnt more about her and eventually fell in love with her.

Personally, I think that while he liked fun side of Buffy, it was her increasing feelings of isolation, pain and hopelessness, which really drew in the romantic, bloody-awful-poet side of Spike.

As for why he put up with Buffy's treatment, hands up who doesn't know someone who has been in love with, and stayed with someone, who treated them badly...

 

[Joyce Summers]

I can't remember the episode, but in Season 6, after a session with Buffy, he says something like "I knew it. I knew the only thing better than killing a slayer would be f...". Nice. But it illustrates the point.

Great reference. I agree that was definitely also part of Spike's attraction and love for Buffy. He's stated time and time again that he's only ever been into anything for the thrill and there was a thrill to having Buffy. That was Spike- wanting the thrill of comshucking a Slayer. William was the one who fell in love with her. And neither cared how she treated him- they just wanted to be with her if for entirely different reasons and needs. And I'm aware that I've made him sound like a schitzophrenic. Haha.

As for why he put up with Buffy's treatment, hands up who doesn't know someone who has been in love with, and stayed with someone, who treated them badly...

Another good point which I agree with. I've known someone in that situation and it may seem insane to us outsiders but they continue to stay together. Tragic, yet true.

 

[groovygarden]

That was Spike- wanting the thrill of comshucking a Slayer. William was the one who fell in love with her. And neither cared how she treated him- they just wanted to be with her.

Ah ha. That's a really interesting way of thinking about it. I like.

When Buffy finally calls things off with Spike, she says "I'm sorry... William". So maybe she gets it too...

I've just finished Season 6 and have been pondering on the whole Spuffy thing, cos sometimes the way he treats Buffy is quite schizophrenic. He can be kind and loving and all excited about post-coital conversation, but he can also be quite bad for her. (Your friends don't understand you, you belong in the dark with me etc etc). Maybe that's because there are two parts of him who want her: the monster and the man.

 

[Joyce Summers]

Maybe that's because there are two parts of him who want her: the monster and the man.

I agree like two agreeing things. I think the prime example of this was in.....Fool for Love. In season 5. After Buffy tells him that she would never choose him, that he is 'beneath her', he rants angrily to Harmony before getting a shotgun and basically saying 'That's it, it ends now', but the moment he sees her crying on the porch step, completely distraught, he drops the gun and asks what's wrong and finds himself trying to comfort her instead.

Another one is Dead Things. Yes, he was harsh and horrible to her but he let her beat him to a bloody pulp because he knew that's what she needed, that she needed to let that anger and pain out to be herself again.

Until he regained his soul it was continuous conflict in Spike as regards to Buffy between the vampire in him and the man. And he never seemed to know for sure which one he should answer to. Eventually though, at the end of season 6, he chooses the man because he knows that would be the right thing for Buffy, that it would be 'what she deserves'. However, the irony is by making that decision he had already become the man she deserved.

 

[UlaGan]

Oh, upon re-watching Buffy season-by-season, I got strong impression that Spike was falling for Buffy merely from the very beginning. Passion, Love, lust - such things just happen, without particular reason.
Though, for the first time, I thought it was "Something Blue" that lead to the whole Spuffy situation.

 

[Tranquillity]

All these responses are really excellent. I haven't got much new to add to the conversation only that i agree that there was a certain attraction between them there right from the beginning - particularly on his side. I think that before the chip his lust for the slayer is expressed in a desire to kill her but once he is chipped that interest in her gets channelled in a new direction. I love it when he sits up in bed after dreaming about her (in Out of My head) and realises that he's in love and he says "No, God no!" Its the last thing in the world that he wants - to be in love with Buffy. He knows what he's like when he's in love and he knows that its not a good thing for him but its out of his control - that's just the way he is.

 

[sosa lola]

(Now, before anybody starts belaboring the "Bangel vs Spuffy" issue, this hasn't anything to do with that.)

Spike loved Buffy to the limits of his being, both before AND after he won his soul, but my question is this: What did she ever do to EARN his love? It just seems to me that she spent more time using and abusing him and taking advantage of his feelings than she ever did appreciating them.

Love can't be explained. It just happens. Buffy fell in love with Angel who's wrong to her on so many levels (He was a vampire and she was a slayer, as well as he was too old and she was too young) and couldn't love Xander who was someone she should be dating (both in high school/same age/both human)

I guess Spike's love started as hero worship before it developed into something deeper. Buffy is an amazing person to love, she sacrifices everything for her family, forgives a lot, struggles so much to protect those she loves, puts her loved ones before her. What's not to love?

 

[slayer07]

I know it was wrong the way Buffy treated Spike but she was going through something that know one could understand and it's undrstandable that she couldnt love him because he didnt have soul and thats why she ended it with him. But when he got his soul back i do believe that Buffy had deep feelings for him and possibly even loved him.

 

[palabravampiress]

I have a couple of ideas that haven't been addressed yet. Yay!

First off: with regard to the monster/man thing, which has been a part of spike's character since day one, (there was enough of the man left in him to try to save his mum, for instance, and then to dispatch her rather than allow her to remain a monster; the judge, too, remarks upon the humanity yet clinging to both Spike and Dru) I think he is drawn to Buffy because the same war rages in Buffy, whether or not she wants to admit it. Buffy is the slayer. She's a unique slayer, with her friends and her family. Those make her a more human slayer than any to have come before her. But a slayer is still part demon, as she shadow men explained. A slayer is still a killer. A slayer is still a creature of the night. Buffy is not all sweetest and light. She gets off on killing, just like Spike (it seemed like poor Riley only ever got any action after Buffy got all riled up in a good fight). She's the slayer version of "fists and fangs," too, preferring leave the rules to the council and the research to Giles and to let instinct guide her. There is a part of her that only feels alive when she kills. There is a part of her that finds herself superior to her friends and family because she is the slayer. She is drawn to vampire men - to monsters - because she needs someone who can reconcile himself to the monster in her. That's why Riley couldn't cut it; that's why Angel and Spike, who were both torn between monster and man, could. Spike and Buffy wanted the rush of fighting one another before they even knew each other; they grew to respect one another as enemies; they slowly became trusted allies and friends; then, they become lovers; and then finally, they fell in love. They did all of this not by chance, but because they kindred spirits. They were, in many ways, mirror versions of one another: with Buffy wearing her "just a girl" costume to hide her dark side from the daytime world and with Spike wearing his "big bad" costume to hide his human side from the unwaking one. Together, they both dropped much of that artifice and approached a middle ground that was more representative of who they *really* were, not just who the world expected them to be.

That's what I think they see in each other. That's what I think they get from one another. And yes, I do think it cuts both ways. At the end of season 5, Spike said he knew he was a monster, but Buffy treated him like a man. That was why he was willing to fight and die for Buffy, for her cause, and to protect those she loved. Buffy saw the man inside the monster for a reason: because there was a monster in Buffy, too. That's who Spike studied and fought at first, too: the Slayer. He even calls her "Slayer." The monsters in Buffy and Spike drew them together initially; the humans in them always stopped the monsters' hands at the last minute and fell for one another over time.



Then, there's my old stand-by of them growing together -- of them seeing the worst in one another in season 6 -- and coming out stronger for the experience, making it a real, complex, and tested sort of love rather than a hearts-and-flowers, first love perfection goggles sort of love. I'll let Spike tell you, himself, why he loves Buffy. He was quite specific about it. From "Touched."

"You listen to me. I've been alive a bit longer than you and
dead a lot longer than that. I've seen things you couldn't
imagine and done things I'd prefer you didn't. I don't
exactly have a reputation for being a thinker. I follow my
blood which doesn't exactly rush in the direction of my
brain so I make a lot of mistakes. A lot of wrong bloody
calls. A hundred plus years and there's only one thing I've
ever been sure of. You.

"Hey, look at me. I'm not asking you for anything. When I
say I love you, it's not because I want you, or because I
can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what
you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your
kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the
worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly
what you are. You are a hell of a woman."