Spike before Angel. What if?

[Tsquared]

I was discussing this with a friend (off BB), of how Buffy's life would have been different if she had met Spike before Angel. She is a Bangel, but we both expressed our opinions honestly. If Spike had shown up in Sunnydale first, fell in love with Buffy, sought redemption and regained his soul for her - how do you see things playing out differently? We both came to the personal conclusion that unless Spike had either died, Bangel would never have happened.

One: Spike would have never of left Buffy, I see him sticking it out with her to the very end regardless.

Two: They wouldn't have had to worry about taking their relationship to the next "level". Now if Spike ever had his soul taken away, it wouldn't have been a big issue, because for Buffy, he'd willingly take it himself and put it right back in. Besides, Spike is pretty much always Spike. Ha.

Three: I see in her eyes Spike's sacrifice, battles, and love greater than anything she could later compare to. To put it in her own words: "You faced the monster inside of you and you fought back. You risked everything to be a better man."

Thoughts? 🙂

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I don't like this option, with no Bangel, LOL.

But if thing played of that way, I would probably like Spuffy, without knowing how Spike could be good badass character. Excuse me, I have to wash my mouth with soap now.

 

[Tsquared]

I would probably like Spuffy, without knowing how Spike could be good badass character. Excuse me, I have to wash my mouth with soap now.

Why thank you Bangel, as a reward for your submission I present to you this free coffee mug! A gift graciously donated by The Spuffy Organization (yes, we're organized). 😉

 

[white avenger]

Assuming that Spike had been the vampire with a soul from the very beginning, he would have been such an immediate hit that Season 2 would have been called "The Adventures Of Spike And His Girlfriend." When Angel did finally stagger into Sunnydale, he would immediately become known as "Who?" and Willow would have staked him with a #2 pencil in his third appearance.

 

[Marisa]

I love this idea that you have brought up and with no doubt in my mind I don't think there would have been a bangel. It is all about timing to me with those two relationships.

 

[MergedLoki]

Gotta remember tho,

if spike had shown up before angel (so in S1)

odds are he probably would have killed buffy.

Pre-soul, Pre-chip, just a slayer killing big bad vamp.

I mean come on, the master WITH spike working w/him against S1 buffy and the scoobies...

No contest it'd be goodbye buffy hello next slayer.

 

[Tsquared]

I love this idea that you have brought up and with no doubt in my mind I don't think there would have been a bangel. It is all about timing to me with those two relationships.

Honestly, having just embraced the Cangel ship too - I believe this is how it SHOULD have happened. Bangel, as I'm liking it less and less everyday, was totally just the timing. Yet, that powerful "first" love wasn't enough to stop Spuffy from ever happening. I haven't finished AtS yet to comment much on Cangel, but from watching their first "scene" in Halloween again, I knew something was there and maybe if it had played out like this, we would have seen something bigger and better emerge from that too. Anyways, didn't want to turn this into another B/A vs B/S thread, and I was really messing with princessbuffy (well the mug part 😛).

Gotta remember tho,

if spike had shown up before angel (so in S1)

odds are he probably would have killed buffy.

Pre-soul, Pre-chip, just a slayer killing big bad vamp.

I mean come on, the master WITH spike working w/him against S1 buffy and the scoobies...

No contest it'd be goodbye buffy hello next slayer.

I love how you have the plotted out, but if I've learned anything from Buffy, it's that nothing is ever that easy. 😉

 

[Marisa]

Honestly, having just embraced the Cangel ship too - I believe this is how it SHOULD have happened. Bangel, as I'm liking it less and less everyday, was totally just the timing. Yet, that powerful "first" love wasn't enough to stop Spuffy from ever happening. I haven't finished AtS yet to comment much on Cangel, but from watching their first "scene" in Halloween again, I knew something was there and maybe if it had played out like this, we would have seen something bigger and better emerge from that too. Anyways, didn't want to turn this into another B/A vs B/S thread, and I was really messing with princessbuffy (well the mug part 😛).

I feel this way too. I think Cangel embodies a very realistic relationship in a supernatural world. Maybe that is why I am so drawn to them.
I agree Spuffy still happened with the powerful love so no telling if that had never existed. Good points Tsqaured 🙂

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Honestly? I think we could never know or speculate.

If Spike had been there from the beginning, and been given the role Angel held on the show (an ally to Buffy, vampire with a soul), would him and Buffy still be together? Doubt it. We all know the fate of most relationships in the Jossverse.

Besides, I love everything about Spike's storyline and his journey. I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[VampireJason]

I try not to think about what-ifs, if we focused on what-ifs we would go insane. Because that's what what-ifs are, it's an "if" that never happened and never will. And we will never know what would've happen if Spike were the vampire-with-a-soul because him and Angel are two very different people. However if it were Spike without a soul... either him or Buffy would've ended up dead.

 

[white avenger]

All jokes aside, let's imagine that Spike, minus the soul, comes to Sunnydale about the same time that Buffy arrives. For reasons of fighting a mutual enemy, maybe the Master, they form a temporary, somewhat strained, alliance. By the end of the season, the strained alliance is turning into grudging respect and even friendship. Season 2 arrives, and Angel, vampire with a soul, but still evil as Attila the Hun on a bad hair day, shows up with his demented mistress, Drusilla. Realizing that the two of them are more than she can handle alone, and despite Giles' impending fit of apoplexy, Buffy decides that she needs help. She goes to the best fighter she knows (Do I even have to say the name?)

And so it goes, from one season to the next, with Buffy becoming more and more attracted to Spike... and so on. It could work. (Someone tell Joss that I'm available as a consultant whenever he needs me. Retirement has its advantages)

 

[Kana]

I'm with those who are trying to fathom the hypothetical.

The problem is: free will, causality and fate. Now we know that at least Bangel is not fated in the sense that whatever event A is, B (for Bangel) will transpire, so it at least gives us the evidence that Bangel isn't fated irrespetive whatever events transpire. We see this in the Wish. The best we get is Angel falling in love with Buffy from afar and mumbling something about destiny.

With all this said even if we say that Spike arrives in Sunnydale before Angel, this doesn't mean that Buffy wouldn't have fallen in love with Angel, even if she clocked Spike first.

Now when we talk about these hypthoticals timing is extremely important. People seem to be ignoring the fact that it took a long while for Spuffy to develop. Assuming Buffy reall did love Spike by Chosen, if Angel turned up then it's unlikely she'd drop everything she shared with Spike for a beautiful stranger, but we still have the timing issue.

Now say Spike and Angel's arrival times were merely swapped considering the time it took Spuffy to happen, I'd contend that Bangel still could have occurred.

Now of course another possibility could arise. If virtually everything happens as it did but without Angel in season 1, then Buffy might have been dead anyway. Buffy's death at hands of the Master is the one thing is seemed fated but without Xander to bring her back, Buffy would have stayed dead, therefore although Bangel would never happen, neither would Spuffy. Although it's a possiblity a bit of spuffy action could have happened prior to her death.

Now my Bangel friend also came up with the possibility that Spike only sought a soul because of Bangel. He saw how much she loved the original vampire with a soul so he concluded that Buffy would love him in the same way if he were ensoulled.

Now while Spuffy fans would scoff at this, it all comes to down free will and causality. We all make decisions based upon our experiences and our predispositions. It's kind of like a Butterfly effect. Unless Spuffy was fated ( and I don't believe either ship is) then just because Angel turns up a little late doesn't mean that Bangel will never happen.

All of this seems born from did Buffy really love Spike and would they have lasted if they had the chance?