Spike belonged in Angel from the start

[xaphania]

Oh, I forgot to mention in my post - I think that if BtVS had continued with a televised season 8, then Spike would have still been in it, and part of his storyline would have been further exploring his relationship with Buffy and the effect of his soul.

 

[King of Hell]

sorry my topic seems misleading, yeah he shouldn't have been there from the start, but Angel season 4 needed him, & Buffy season 7 didn't need him much, I can't think of a way to get him in Angel season 4, but am sure Joss Whedon can get it done. everything in season 4 was rewritten anyway, so they could've written Spike in somehow.

 

[Kana]

Spike was best a) alive (or y'know, undead) and b) on screen.

I love him so much, I don't really care where he is. That said, he couldn't have been the Spike in S5 without his development on Buffy, but AtS did give him a chance to expand more, since he was away from Buffy and had to make decisions based on his morals and not hers.

I couldn't agree with this more.

Spike can fit anywhere because he's that adaptable. Of course it makes sense that a lot of his development happened on Btvs because he was there for more seasons but in particular, Shells was an important part of his development. As you said, most of change on BTVS was because he thought it was what Buffy wanted. On Shells, he says fighting in LA is what he wants and that's huge for me. He was really beginning to get a sense of self he never really had before. For once, it wasn't about being the kind of man that Buffy wants or being equal or better than Angel, it was about the good fight.

 

[white avenger]

he shouldn't have been there from the start, but Angel season 4 needed him, & Buffy season 7 didn't need him much,

I won't say that Season 7 revolved entirely around Spike, but he was undoubtedly an integral part of the main story line. AS you say, Season 4 of "Angel" could have been rewritten to include Spike, but in so doing, Season 7 of "Buffy" would have had to be rewritten almost completely to work right without him. By Buffy's own admission, he was the one who gave her the strength and determination to carry on with her mission after the gang threw her out, and her dependence on him didn't begin just with "Empty Places" and "Touched."

And as much as Buffy needed Spike in that season, he needed her as much if not more. The main reason, I believe, in how quickly Spike came to terms with his new found soul was Buffy's belief in and support of him, the assurance that what he had done was right and, because of it, he could actually become a better man, as opposed to the rejection and condemnation that Angel got from the person who meant the most to him at that time, Darla. There was no one on Angel's show who could have given him that, and without his soul and the changes that it made in him, he would have never been able to be accepted by anyone there, As it was, the only thing that allowed him to become accepted into that group was the fact that, incorporeal as he was, and attached to the Wolfram & Hart building, they had no choice but to get to know the new version of who he was. Without that time, he would have either been staked or at the very least not been trusted by them, which would have made him useless there.

Granted, those, and all of the other elements that Spike contributed to Season 7 or COULD HAVE contributed to Season 4 could have been written in a way as to do without or include his character, but I honestly believe that those changes would have been so great that they would have taken far too much away from Season 7 and contributed far too little to Season 4 to make those changes necessary.

But above and beyond all of that, Buffy needed to learn about Spike's soul first hand, and Spike needed to hear Buffy tell him, however you choose to interpret her meaning, that she actually did love him. If for nothing but those two scenes, Spike HAD to be in Sunnydale for that last season.

 

[dan k]

Like many of said before Buffy season 7 was predominantly about the relationship of Buffy and Spike. The number of scenes they had, Spike's role in giving her the belief to carry on the fight and the influence Spike had on the storyline meant he had to be in season 7.

I also firmly agree with White Avenger in the sense that Buffy relied on Spike in that season whilst Spike needed Buffy to see what he was like without a soul. She gave him a purpose, without that his fate would have mirrored Angel's who took over a decade to recover from getting his soul back.

 

[Tome]

I think the way he ended up on Angel in season 5 was perfect. I wouldn't change anything even if I could 😀 I can't see Spike being part of the whole family thing in the first seasons of Angel, he would have stolen the spotlight from others :tongue3:

 

[King of Hell]

maybe you're right, maybe its because Angel S4 felt like it was missing something, & Buffy S7's cast was huge already, but like I said, if they'd write Spike out in Buffy season 7, it won't be the same season minus Spike, they could develop Spike's character in Angel in a number of ways, the AI team was already separated into 3 "factions", Angel, Wesley, & JasCordy. of course JasCordy could manipulate Spike easily, we might even end up in an Angelus vs Spike arc, Faith jumps in, of course by the end of the season, Spike would be trusted somehow, that's one way I could think of, & am not Joss.

& they could think of something else in Buffy too, am just saying that cause Angel S4 was heavily rewritten because of Quinn's death & CC's pregnancy, & S4 needed more than just heavy rewrite, maybe I wouldn't say that if Faith stayed, or if they had rewritten the season in a better way. & Buffy S7 was weak somehow too, so both shows needed something different in that particular year.

 

[Wesley]

I agree with the views here that Spike on Angel would not have been nearly as fun without his character development on BtvS. That being said Spike was absolutely brilliant on AtS. He had an excellent brotherly love/hate thing going with Angel and that was nice.

However I think the 'best' part of Spike (as in the most different in comparison to BtvS) on AtS was that they developed his relationship with the secondary character, from the obvious such as Fred/Illyria to the 'badass patrol' relationship with Wes and the joking relationship with Charlieboy.

On btvs Spikes relationships with the secondary cast were marginalized and eventually abandoned by S7. So on AtS we got to see him as more then just 'Buffys love bitch' or even 'Angels whiny kid brother' we got to see him be a lot of things to a lot of different people.

The real honest shame of it all is how completely and utterly awesome Ats S6 would have been. Another season of Angel, Spike, Wes, Illyria on the small screen would have been... if judging by the after the fall comic... probably the best season of the whole Buffyverse.


Alas.

 

[King of Hell]

come to think of it, it would be a totally different Spike without the character development he had in Btvs, of course the writers could come up with another way to develop his character the same way, using a different route, in Ats. but we'll never know, I guess. maybe watching his chemistry with the cast in Angel 100 times better than his chemistry with Buffy's cast made me think of it this way.

& I still think he's better off in Angel than in Buffy, "if" they had figured a proper way to develop his character. his character development in Angel S5 was great anyway, he used to be like Angel's shadow, that all changed in Angel S5.

 

[white avenger]

The real honest shame of it all is how completely and utterly awesome Ats S6 would have been. Another season of Angel, Spike, Wes, Illyria on the small screen would have been... if judging by the after the fall comic... probably the best season of the whole Buffyverse.


Alas.

The same could be said for having Spike on a televised Season 8 of "Buffy." Their relationship had finally begun to develop into something that they could share rather than having one just using and taking advantage of the other. He might have even started getting, begrudgingly of course, some of the respect due him from the Scoobies. I personally would have loved to see a scene where Giles and Wood actually had to apologize to both Spike and Buffy for their conspiracy, and beg forgiveness from both of them.

 

[Misty]

I actually like Spike on Buffy but not on Angel. He was a good replacement of Cordy in Buffy, but not in Angel because there was no Cordy and it was just like a WTF? BRING CORDY BACK moment for me because I missed her:cry3:

 

[Giantevilhead]

Spike's story had the potential of getting a lot more interesting if Angel hadn't been canceled simply due to the history between Angel and Spike. There would have been a lot more flashbacks where we get to see Spike and Angel during various interesting historical periods. We would also have gotten to see a lot more of Darla, Drusilla, and Angelus. Heck, we might even get to see some interesting flashbacks from Buffy.

 

[King of Hell]

not to mention that Oz & Willow would've been brought to the cast of season 6, they killed everyone in season 5 & needed a new cast. Illyria, Willow, Oz, Spike, Angel...& probably guest appearances of Buffy, it would've been a really interesting season, though I don't see Willow fitting with the gang, Oz on the other hand completely fits in LA, more than in Sunnydale I'd say.

 

[LadyLavinia]

For me, Spike was a very interesting character period. Whether he was a villain or one of the good guys. If he had remained one or the other throughout his run on both shows, he would not have remained interesting to me. Many fans have bemoaned the idea of Spike developing as a character. I don't feel the same. His journey from villain to hero has been one of the most interesting I have seen on television, period.