I was trolling though you tube and came across the scene in Angel when Spike first arrived and not long into that scene Spike brag's to every one about having sex with Buffy,It struck me that none of them Knew about it and if Buffy had wanted them to know she would have told them, after all she told Tara and begged her not to tell the others and she did not. Now you cant love any body with out respecting them, Buffy had not told her friends and family about Spike ,Spike new if she wanted them to know she would have told them, he did not respect her enough not to tell them.One of the first things he told Faith was about him and Buffy,again no respect for her wishes he had no idea if Buffy would want Faith to know, the sex when Buffy said no or dont he did not respect her wishes, when she told him to leave her alone .....There was no Love , you cant have love with no respect. we never even saw this in Angulus
Spike did not love Buffy
- Thread starter Dora
- Start date
cryptwarmer
I'm in charge of morale!
Transcript, Entropy...
BUFFY: Your call.
SPIKE: I mean, sure he don't look like much...
VAMP 2: Hey!
SPIKE: ...but I'd wager he could give you a bit o' nasty. (Buffy kicking Vamp 1) Save you the staking. (Buffy throwing Vamp 1 to the ground) All you gotta do is-
BUFFY: I am not telling my friends about us.
SPIKE: Right, I'll just be dropping him down to you then.
BUFFY: (still struggling with Vamp 1) You wanna tell them so badly? Go ahead.
She finally manages to get a hand free and stakes the first vamp. Buffy stands up and walks over to the gate, looks up at Spike and the still dangling Vamp 2.
BUFFY: You know why? I tried to kill my friends, my sister, last week ... and guess how much they hate me. Zero. Zero much. (shrugs) So I'm thinking, sleeping with you? (Spike looking annoyed) They'll deal.
She told him that if he wanted to tell her friends they slept together, he was free to do so.
She had lifted the ban of secrecy.
BUFFY: Your call.
SPIKE: I mean, sure he don't look like much...
VAMP 2: Hey!
SPIKE: ...but I'd wager he could give you a bit o' nasty. (Buffy kicking Vamp 1) Save you the staking. (Buffy throwing Vamp 1 to the ground) All you gotta do is-
BUFFY: I am not telling my friends about us.
SPIKE: Right, I'll just be dropping him down to you then.
BUFFY: (still struggling with Vamp 1) You wanna tell them so badly? Go ahead.
She finally manages to get a hand free and stakes the first vamp. Buffy stands up and walks over to the gate, looks up at Spike and the still dangling Vamp 2.
BUFFY: You know why? I tried to kill my friends, my sister, last week ... and guess how much they hate me. Zero. Zero much. (shrugs) So I'm thinking, sleeping with you? (Spike looking annoyed) They'll deal.
She told him that if he wanted to tell her friends they slept together, he was free to do so.
She had lifted the ban of secrecy.
white avenger
white avenger
I have to agree, Spike bragging about having sex with Buffy is NOT the action of someone who truly loves her. As I recall, though, his talk about "puttin' it to her" was in response to Angel's accusation that the only reason that Spike got a soul was so that he could "get in a girl's pants." (If Spiked bragged about it any other time, I have forgotten it)
Let's face it, just as Buffy brings out the best in Spike, Angel will always be able to bring out the worst. That is by no means an excuse for Spike's actions, just an effort to explain them. One thing's for sure, though. Randy would NEVER talk that way about Joan. Theirs is a pure and honest love, unsullied by such things.
Let's face it, just as Buffy brings out the best in Spike, Angel will always be able to bring out the worst. That is by no means an excuse for Spike's actions, just an effort to explain them. One thing's for sure, though. Randy would NEVER talk that way about Joan. Theirs is a pure and honest love, unsullied by such things.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Sure Spike loved Buffy as a demon.
Demon love is demon-love and manifests itself in different, unpleasent ways- like some of the more toxic forms of actual love; selfish, self-absorbed, destructive, etc.
He did care about Buffy- in his way- but it was only possible to appear in some of the most harmful ways possible.
The fact that it stays mostly self-absorbed and selfish after Spike gets a soul is proof that it is actul romantic love, just not a particularly worthy one.
Demon love is demon-love and manifests itself in different, unpleasent ways- like some of the more toxic forms of actual love; selfish, self-absorbed, destructive, etc.
He did care about Buffy- in his way- but it was only possible to appear in some of the most harmful ways possible.
The fact that it stays mostly self-absorbed and selfish after Spike gets a soul is proof that it is actul romantic love, just not a particularly worthy one.
But surely that is like someone keep asking to borrow your bike , you dont want them too, they know you really dont want them too but they keep pestering until you do ,Is it not another case of Spike putting pressure on Buffy, she asked Tara not to tell not knowing and not wanting to face her friends reaction, Spike had no excuse he knew once he had told there would be repercussion for Buffy , he did not care......no respect for her , no love
This could stand up if the same thing had happened with Drucilla , when Spike was in the wheel chair and Dru had basically dumped him for Angelus, there was no bragging about what he and Dru had done over the last century to hurt Angelus....no he loved Dru and did not want to hurt her feelings, there was no love like this for Buffy he went out of his way to hurt her like bragging to Riley. No with Buffy it was a obsession because she was the slayer , not love, he did not respect her enough for love,hence he did not care whether he hurt her physically or mentally or not. No doubt any real life Stalker will tell you he loves his victim
cryptwarmer
I'm in charge of morale!
What Buffy said to Tara does not apply to Spike. That would be like the person with the bike saying "I REALLY don't want Susan to borrow my bike" to a friend, but telling Susan she can borrow it.
There's also the fact that Spike pretty much has the right to tell whomever he wants that he was in a relationship with Buffy.
By the time he told Faith, it was common knowledge that he and Buffy had been in a relationship.
Whether or not he loved her is a different issue. But him telling people they had a relationship has nothing to do with it. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.
But does this not come back to my original point of no respect, haven't we all had sexual encounters that we dont mention or brag about because of the possible trouble or embarrassment it may cause the other party,and that's with people we dont love.Spike had no such scruples when it comes to Buffy
cryptwarmer
I'm in charge of morale!
Buffy said she didn't care if he told anyone. Angel already knew they'd been involved. Buffy had told him as much before the oh so bad cookie monologue. The last thing she said to Spike was that she loved him. So exactly what horrible consequences would there be for her if people knew she and Spike had had a relationship by the time Spike showed up in LA? Everyone significant in her life already knew and no one at W&H would give a rats patootie about it.
Again do you hear people in loving a relation ship discussing personal things like sex to friends and aquatints it would be a very strange relationship if they did, you hear the teenage blaggard saying such things, like had her, in go fish Buffy said this will not do my reputation any good I did it with the swim team, in wrecked she threaten to stake him if he told anyone .Buffy did not love Spike in chosen she pitied him and told a dying man what he wanted to hear, he said himself no you dont...Spike new, Arriving on Angel as soon as he found out Buffy was alive and got out he started Bragging, he would never had done that if he loved her he would have wanted to find out all he could have about her before anything. The horrible consequences are you do not do this type of things to some one you care about.
Just a thought Spike told Faith , Angel etc about him and Buffy.....Did he tell them about the attempted rape ?
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
That was more about Drusilla though. I suspect that Spike knew that Angelus didn't love Drusilla- that's shown from their very first in 'Destiny'- Angelus didn't believe in property/love/couples so Spike knew that him taunting his sire wouldn't have nay affect.
I think the taunting in As5 'Destiny' was aimed at Angel and designed to hurt him. Was it nice? Nope is was gross. Did it disrespect Buffy? Absolutely it did (the whole episode managed to degrade both women referenced- Dru and Buffy- and make the guys look like ridiculous man-children)
Ironically I think souled Spike would agree with you.- He thought that- looking back- his 'love' of Buffy was just obsession. Only with a soul did he 'change' and gain perspective for his emotions.
Again, I can't say that I doubt the truth of his feelings- his character arc makes no sense otherwise- I can question how selfless and 'good' his love of Buffy is, just not the love itself.
That was between him and Buffy surely.
I have no problem with Spike keeping his feelings and the events of his relationship with Buffy entirely to himself- including the AR- unfortunately he doesn't do this. He seems to 'inflict' his emotions on Buffy at every opportunity.
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
I think you can be a jerk and still love someone. It's not unheard of that people sometimes hurt the ones the love the most, so I don't know that we can point to Spike talking about Buffy like a notch in his bedpost as proof that he didn't love and respect her. (Even though it was a shitty thing to do that didn't show love or respect)
Plus, his bragging had everything to do with his own insecurities and nothing to do with her really.
Plus, his bragging had everything to do with his own insecurities and nothing to do with her really.
Is that not the point Spike bragged about Buffy leaving out his role in what happened, they did not need to know
Buffy was mentally ill and Spike manipulated and abused her, was that not Bad enough with out Spike Bragging about it , and later taunting Angel with it
brinkster130
It was the only way Spike thought he could "one-up" Angel so he did it...even if it was an ass move. Typical Spike IMO
Well, honestly, when Spike arrives on Angel his relationship with Buffy is over (as odd as it seems that he wouldn't try to get in touch with her again). She's not there/around so it's not like he's throwing it in her face, he's throwing it in Angel's.
In general though, bragging about shagging someone is not cool, but neither is expecting someone you are involved with to keep it a secret. I don't think it necessarily means he didn't love her, it just means, as brink said, he was acting like a jerk.
🙂
In general though, bragging about shagging someone is not cool, but neither is expecting someone you are involved with to keep it a secret. I don't think it necessarily means he didn't love her, it just means, as brink said, he was acting like a jerk.
🙂
Spike did not know that the relation ship between Angel and Buffy was over, Buffy and Angel did not know it was over, End of cookie speech Buffy say sometimes I do look that far ahead to which Angels replies I aint getting any older
Buffy had not told her friends ( apart from Tara who said she would not tell ) about spike and her, Spike told them Buffy had not told Angel and she could have ( cookie speech ) or his group no Spike told them She had not told Faith, no Spike did, he told each group unfortunately to all parties he did not mention the AR was his bragging just to belittle her in the eyes of every one she knew or was it a lack of respect for her and her feelings.....either way I dont think there was any real love soul or no soul.......we never heard him brag about Dru or Harmony
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