Question Spike: Human feelings or Chipmade feelings???

[Ripper666]

Has Spike human feelings or are all his "feelings" produced by his Chip? I think they are "chipmade". What do you think?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBA_8ql4hK4"]Buffy - Break your heart - YouTube[/ame]

😕

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I think the chip has just let the real Spike... actually William, to break free. Because with the chip he was able to relate to his human self. It's not that his feelings (for Buffy mostly) developed BECAUSE of the chip, no. But it let him come closer to the Scoobies, to Buffy, to the light, to the side of good. He bitched about it, and I think one of the reasons were that his human self was trying to break free through his feelings, feelings he didn't want to begin with. The chip simply brought him closer to the good side, therefore develop more human feelings. feelings for Buffy and the willing to help, protect, care, etc. I'm not sure that without the chip it was possible. It was the key that led to what happened to him inside. The chip didn't develop those feelings in him, it was just the element that opened that possibility.

That's what I think.

 

[white avenger]

If by "feelings," you are referring to love, unselfish loyalty, and even a certain degree of honor, Spike demonstrated all of those from the first moment hat we saw him in Season 2, long before he ever got a chip in his head. That being the case, I can't see how a simple piece of plastic and wire could in any way be seen as the source of Spike's feelings.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

If by "feelings," you are referring to love, unselfish loyalty, and even a certain degree of honor, Spike demonstrated all of those from the first moment hat we saw him in Season 2, long before he ever got a chip in his head. That being the case, I can't see how a simple piece of plastic and wire could in any way be seen as the source of Spike's feelings.

Not really agreeing with the unselfish loyalty and honor bit, but agree that Spike has always been the way he's shown in season 6. The only thing the chip did was to give him the opportunity to discover his feelings for Buffy, thus make him wanting to act good, to get her.

I don't believe that he ever became good though, no matter how the canon-ish 8 issue Brian Lynch series described soulless Spike. He was evil, in and before season 6, but he acted nice for Buffy's sake, and to a certain degree forgot how to do evil.

I could however buy that he thought he had turned good, but I think that just shows that soulless Spike(both the show's Spike and Lynch's Spike) really has no clue of what good really is.

 

[white avenger]

Not really agreeing with the unselfish loyalty and honor bit,

The way that he protected and took care of Dru in Season 2 when she was still weak, I would call unselfish loyalty, cause lord knows he gave far more than he ever received in return. And basically introducing himself to the Slayer and announcing his intentions, then facing her one on one instead of calling any of his minions to help (yeah, I know, you're just gonna say that he didn't want to share the kill, but I saw it differently) could be seen as the action of one honorable warrior to another. Remember, I said only a "certain degree" of honor, I never said that he was a pillar of integrity at that time.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

The way that he protected and took care of Dru in Season 2 when she was still weak, I would call unselfish loyalty, cause lord knows he gave far more than he ever received in return.

I don't think he was so unselfish, or loyal per see, he just did what made Dru happy, since it made him happy. It wasn't really about loyality, in my eyes, but since I'm not sure of Spike's reasoning, I'm just guessing that he did it more out of love than a sense of loyality. But that's a question of definition.

And basically introducing himself to the Slayer and announcing his intentions, then facing her one on one instead of calling any of his minions to help (yeah, I know, you're just gonna say that he didn't want to share the kill, but I saw it differently) could be seen as the action of one honorable warrior to another. Remember, I said only a "certain degree" of honor, I never said that he was a pillar of integrity at that time.

I don't think it was about honor, just the bragging rights. I imagine that Spike saying "I bit the latest slayer from behind when she was pre-occupied with another vampire, then me and that guy fought over who did the most work" wouldn't sound nearly as good in his ears as "I took on the slayer, one on one, and I defeated her, based on fighting skills alone" or something like that. It's not as much about principle, as pride. And later one, in Halloween, I think he got that Buffy was under a spell but he didn't care, no honor there. Then again, then I guess it was simply about winning, not getting something to brag about. I imagine he was getting tired of her, or just couldn't resist.

It's just so much more believable to me that any signs of honor from him, was about him wanting to be able to brag about it, both because he did it alone and he did it "right". it wasn't about killing a slayer, it was about how he killed her.

And regarding announcing himself, I think he just wanted her fear to grow. To have her read up on him and face him after living in fear for days.

I just can't recall anything in his character otherwise that makes him seem like a guy living after a code, just as a guy who wants to be able to brag the most.

 

[InsaneMystic]

As for the honor bit, I gotta remind you of "Lie To Me". He actually kept his word to sire Ford in the end, upholding his end of the bargain even though his reward for it had beeen nixed. Like WA said, that's surely not "pillar of integrity" level, but it sure is a level of honor the run-of-the-mill vampire doesn't demonstrate.

 

[zobothehobo]

I, like Chosen Enemy, believe the chip allowed something in Spike to come to the surface. Something he'd be suppressing for a long time... William. The adorable helpless in love English gentleman kept trying to break through and he really fought with himself over that. I also agree with white avenger in says that Spike has always been loyal and loving. I never understand when people act like Spike changed that much after season 4. He fell in love with Buffy, but he didn't change... Replace Buffy with Dru and you get essentially the same Spike from season 2. The main difference (to me) was where Buffy stood and who she was in the fight of Good vs Evil. Buffy being such an important part on the side of good... Spike didn't understand her. It was easy to understand Dru even when she was spouting nonsense. She was evil and she wanted to do the most "hurtful" and "evil" thing she could. Spike knew how to make her happy. Buffy was much more complex than this, I believe because of the presence of a soul. And also she fought on the side of good... and was the leader of that side. Spike had no soul and was unequipped to really fight on that side and to understand how Buffy thought and felt.

But other than learning how to understand people, Spike really didn't change all that much between season 2 and season 7. I believe he sought after his soul in an attempt to understand Buffy, William, and the world he was living in. That doesn't sound that different to season 2 Spike who saved the world in an effort to win Dru back from Angelus. Well... I take that back... it's much more rational. 🙂

And I don't know how I got here in my rant... but I did... Enjoy...

 

[Marisa]

I think the chip helped but it wasn't everything. Spike was always a very loving person even in his vampire state. One of the most loving vampires I have seen so it was also Spike's feelings more than anything else imo.

 

[AmazingMrCross]

Spike's nature as a vampire within Buffyverse rules is something that has always confused me. In the series it's established pretty much from the get-go that a vampire has no conscience, no morality, and no humanity; the person they were as a human is gone, and a demon has taken up residence in their body. They are pure evil eating machines who take pleasure in killing and drinking blood. ("It walks and it talks but it's not you!")

Spike, on the other hand, has always had a bit of "human" in him, with or without a soul. Like shortly after he was 'turned,' when he still loved his mum enough that he turned her into a vampire so she'd be young and they'd always be together. He displayed some genuine emotion and horror when this resulted in his mother becoming an unrecognizable monster who, you know, wanted to bone him, and he had to make the hideous thing vanish by staking her. Then there was his own weird way of loving Dru, and his uneasy alliances with the Scoobies for varying reasons. When he got his chip some more of the human gradually came out. He developed feelings for Buffy (again, in his own weird way) became protective of Dawn, and made some pretty heartfelt speeches and observations.

I'm not saying soulless Spike wasn't evil. He was. But clearly whatever happens to a person's humanity when they are vamped didn't completely happen to him.

 

[Reddygirl]

Spike, whether a human, a full-fledged vampire, a vampire with a chip or a vampire with a soul, has always been capable of love and loyalty. Vampires retain their human personalities, probably no character makes that plainer than Harmony.

Unsouled Spike was evil; if he didn't care for a human he had no concern for their well being. But if he did feel a connection with someone, be it Dru, Buffy, Joyce or Dawn, he openly showed affection and risked his life for them.