Spike in 'Destiny'

[Phantom Dennis]

If Spike is supposed to truely love Buffy how come as soon as he becomes solid again he immedietely starts 'making the beast with two backs' with Harmony? Didn't really make any sense when I watched it.

 

[white avenger]

If Spike is supposed to truely love Buffy how come as soon as he becomes solid again he immedietely starts 'making the beast with two backs' with Harmony? Didn't really make any sense when I watched it.

Because Spike is a very physical person. All of that time spent in a non-corporeal state with almost total sensory deprivation, must have been sheer torture for him. It's no surprise that the first things that he would do after becoming solid once more would be to use his senses. He drank Angel's blood and tried to have sex with Harmony, exercising the two senses that he had been deprived of.

And as far as "making the beast with two backs," his record on that account is still better than Angel's. Spike's actions were directly the effect of becoming solid once more. As far as we know, there was never any sort of attempt to do anything like that again, even after his claiming to "move on" after seeing who he and Angel believed to be Buffy with the Immortal in Rome. Angel did much more "two backed beasting" with Nina than Spike ever did with Harmony.

 

[Phantom Dennis]

What does Angel have to do with this? By this point he's clearly moved on from Buffy, while as soon as Spike was brought back as a ghost says something along the lines of 'you got no idea what we had', making clear his feelings about Buffy are still strong. Couples of epi's later and he's getting his freak on with Harm.

 

[Crazy Flakes]

I always got the impression that, after being incorporeal and (obviously) unable to, erm, cure his "manly urges," all Spike really wanted was some just-for-fun, no-strings-attached sex. Harmony just happened to be convenient.

 

[white avenger]

What does Angel have to do with this? By this point he's clearly moved on from Buffy, while as soon as Spike was brought back as a ghost says something along the lines of 'you got no idea what we had', making clear his feelings about Buffy are still strong. Couples of epi's later and he's getting his freak on with Harm.

Leaving Angel out of the discussion, then, Spike's reaction still had nothing to do with his feelings for Buffy. It was still the result of sensory deprivation. After weeks of being unable to feel or taste anything, his first thought was to taste and feel, preferably the best that was immediately available. In this case, that would be Angel's cup of otter blood and Harmony's body, respectively. The blood was there and available, and so was she. It was simple hunger and convenience. Taking that logic further, that would at least partially explain the fight with Angel later in the episode. Spike got there first. He could have just drank the Mountain Dew, hopped back in his Viper, and be headed back to LA while Angel was still looking for the cup.

Spike's three priorities in life. The three F's: Feed, Fight, and Fornicate, not necessarily in that order. He needed all three just to prove to himself that he was really completely functional again.

My "if he really loved Buffy..." question concerning this episode has nothing to do with his immediate actions after becoming solid again. My question is, if he really cared that much about Buffy, why did he change his mind at the end about going to find her? (Which, again, has nothing to do with your original question)

 

[Buffanator]

Spike's three priorities in life. The three F's: Feed, Fight, and Fornicate, not necessarily in that order.

HEH! Yeah, that about sums up my Spikey! 😀

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

If Spike is supposed to truely love Buffy how come as soon as he becomes solid again he immedietely starts 'making the beast with two backs' with Harmony? Didn't really make any sense when I watched it.

Well, Spike is a sexual guy. I don't blame him for wanting to sleep with Harmony. You can love someone and want to sleep with someone else 😉 Plus, using typical Spike-logic, I think he wanted to "test" out if he was really corporeal, as White Avenger said.

 

[ubi4soft]

Well, Spike is a sexual guy. I don't blame him for wanting to sleep with Harmony. You can love someone and want to sleep with someone else 😉 Plus, using typical Spike-logic, I think he wanted to "test" out if he was really corporeal, as White Avenger said.

I think I've read somewhere that it was Joss who decided Spike Harmony...thing (or maybe in the commentary) and Spike saying "bloody ambrosia" after drinking Angel's cup of pigs blood? Definitively sensory deprivation

 

[ukkid09]

Spike defeated Angel for the cup . I think, It was along time I re watch Angel season 5 🙂 :lmao:

 

[Zombierella]

I agree with what most of you have said. If you were a guy, And it had been a while since you've gotten any, What would you do? Plus, It's not like he walked up to a random chick and shagged her. He and Harmony were in a relationship prior to the Spuffy relationship. I've always known Spike to be a very sexual kinda guy. It's just the type of vamp he is. Plus, Like someone else has stated, Angel did have sex [with Nina] more than Spike did in S5. Spike had sex once. For a guy, That must be torture. I give him props. lol.

 

[Washburne]

You can love someone and want to sleep with someone else 😉

Of course you can. It can be understandable that Spike did it but can it be seen as a good thing? The right thing to do?

Spike had sex once. For a guy, That must be torture.

So he can go get his soul back (a kind of torture) for Buffy but not staying away from having sex? Not easy having instincts is it? 😉

 

[Gideon]

The difference between Spike's "one night stand" and Angel's relationship with Nina is... well... just that. Angel was trying to move on, and slept with a woman only once on screen (were there other references to sleeping with Nina?) whom he was dating.

Spike just wanted to screw someone.

Sorry, Spuffies, but only one of those actions can be understood and admired (and it isn't Spike's). As a guy, I can tell you I could handle hearing news that my ex was screwing her boyfriend better than just whoring it out.

 

[ubi4soft]

The difference between Spike's "one night stand" and Angel's relationship with Nina is... well... just that. Angel was trying to move on, and slept with a woman only once on screen (were there other references to sleeping with Nina?) whom he was dating.

Once with Darla (uh, sorry three times as Darla said), once with Cordelia (in his dreams), once with Eve spell induced, once with Nina, once with..Oh my god, how far Angel has moved on..

Spike didn't get to check his installation as we see him dry humping Harmony

 

[Gideon]

Once with Darla (uh, sorry three times as Darla said),

White Avenger didn't mention Angel's night with Darla, but rather his night with Nina.

You'll note I didn't mention or defend Angel's night with Darla, since it's hardly justifiable. But his relationship with Nina was.

once with Cordelia (in his dreams),

I didn't realize fantasies or shaman-induced comas constitute something wrong.

once with Eve spell induced,

No offense, but if we're going to get into an argument about Spike and Angel's post-Buffy relations, you could at least check your bias at the door and accept the fact that "spell induced" doesn't qualify as a voluntary sexual act. Which means that it's irrelevant.

Was Spike under some sort of spell?

Hardly.

once with Nina,

You mean... his girlfriend?

once with..Oh my god, how far Angel has moved on..

The only example that you provided that is relevant was Angel's night with Darla, which is no more or less than the the first sexual encounter between Spike and Buffy. It was self-destructive, violent, and both Angel and Buffy were seeking some sort of comfort.

And it only happened one night.

I'm more than happy to discuss and accept the fact that Angel obviously wasn't on hold for Buffy the rest of his eternal life. And I mean no disrespect, but if your defense for Spike's actions is simply bringing up Angel's fantasies or sexual encounters under magical influence, then I think your point is somewhat... lacking.

 

[Wren Summers]

I was a little shocked/horrified when Spike "slept" with Harmony. It seemed waay out of character at the time and ugh...I didn't get it.
Made me really kinda not like him for a little bit after I watched that, part of the otherwise good, episode honestly. I love Spike, but geez, shouldn't going to find Buffy been the first thing on his mind and not having sex with Harmony? I kinda get the sensory deprivation thing you guys are talking about, but still...
It was the Harmony thing and the "can't top my exit" thing that really made me very irritated with Spike in Angel season 5. It didn't even seem in character to me. Though I've tried to puzzle it together...

 

[Gideon]

I was a little shocked/horrified when Spike "slept" with Harmony. It seemed waay out of character at the time and ugh...I didn't get it.
Made me really kinda not like him for a little bit after I watched that, part of the otherwise good, episode honestly. I love Spike, but geez, shouldn't going to find Buffy been the first thing on his mind and not having sex with Harmony? I kinda get the sensory deprivation thing you guys are talking about, but still...
It was the Harmony thing and the "can't top my exit" thing that really made me very irritated with Spike in Angel season 5. It didn't even seem in character to me. Though I've tried to puzzle it together...

I hated that Spike didn't at least get in touch with Buffy. Lame excuse for the writers.

And as far as Spike's one night stand with Harmony, it's not excusable, but in character for Spike. I imagine being recorporeal briefly returned Spike to his impulsive, horny nature.

After he cooled off, I'm sure he was 100% devoted to Buffy again.

Not excusable, as I said, and certainly a mistake, and one he should deservedly catch hell for, but nothing to condemn him or make me hate the character. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

If it will make any difference in this discussion, what we've been talking about Spike doing with Harmony didn't really get started well before she went all bloody-eyed and took a chunk out of his neck. Or, to use Wolfram & Hart language, the case was brought before the jury, but the verdict was never reached.

 

[ubi4soft]

I'm more than happy to discuss and accept the fact that Angel obviously wasn't on hold for Buffy the rest of his eternal life. And I mean no disrespect, but if your defense for Spike's actions is simply bringing up Angel's fantasies or sexual encounters under magical influence, then I think your point is somewhat... lacking.

Thank you for this.

I am not defending Spike. After being re-corporealised (is that a word?) he was extremely selfish, hugs Gunn, drinks pigs blood, sees Harmony and takes her for granted.

I just wanted to say that Angel did more than actual one time with Nina, that's all.

I don't know how to multi-quote, but I agree with your second post on the subject which is more fair on the subject.

 

[Wren Summers]

I hated that Spike didn't at least get in touch with Buffy. Lame excuse for the writers.

And as far as Spike's one night stand with Harmony, it's not excusable, but in character for Spike. I imagine being recorporeal briefly returned Spike to his impulsive, horny nature.

After he cooled off, I'm sure he was 100% devoted to Buffy again.

Not excusable, as I said, and certainly a mistake, and one he should deservedly catch hell for, but nothing to condemn him or make me hate the character. 🙂

I agree. I don't entirely get the no contacting her thing at all.

Yeah, I guess.

It didn't really make me hate him either, it just made me look down on him for a little bit.

 

[WitchHuntress]

Hmmm....on another note, do you think it's possible that the writers just slipped up here?

I don't want to be one of those "if I don't agree with it, then it must not be true" types of people, but let's face it: when you have a TV show with multiple writers authoring each episode and each of their different takes on each individual character, there's bound to be a slip-up or inconsistency in a character's personality. It sounds like this might be an example of that.

Think about it like this: Spike became an extremely popular character after Buffy Season Three and after that, the writers began to sex him up for all he was worth. But they still kept him relatively the same personality-wise: his devotion to Buffy was just as strong (if not more) than his devotion to Drusilla and, after Drusilla treated him so shamefully, it makes sense that he began to transfer his affections elsewhere. Still, though, these affections towards Buffy were always honourable and loyal.

Notice as well his reaction towards Drusilla when she began to cheat on him with Angelus: clearly, Spike had definite ideas about the loyalties that are inherent in a relationship and, when Drusilla began to drift away from him, his first response was not to go whoring after someone else but to kidnap Willow in order to bring her back! Sounds like a person who's pretty conscientious and loyal in their affections, if you ask me.

Now, consider Season 5 of Angel: there's no Buffy around and so no opportunity for Spike to have a romantic encounter with anyone. Are the writers going to let him remain celibate and loyal -- something that the old Spike (particularly after having regained his soul!) would almost certainly have done? God forbid! Instead, wishing to keep a dose of sex in the show instead of remain consistent with Spike's personality, the writers decided to insert an utterly gratuitous and out-of-character sex scene that might have made sense in the context of the old, soul-less Spike (though even then, I don't think so), but is absolutely unbelievable in light of the Spike who clung to a cross in "Beneath You" and wished to be forgiven and to be the man for Buffy.

Sometimes I think that we poor fans, in our efforts to make the storyline consistent in our heads, forget the fact that no single mind put together the plots for each season and thus end up working out continuity errors in the storyline more thoroughly than the writers themselves did! Which is to our credit, but somewhat to the writers' shame...