Spike-ized vs Bangel-ized

[white avenger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kean View Post

If you think Buffy walked away from Spike and what they did during season 6 without emotional (and physical) scars, then while we may be Bangel-ised, you are equally Spuffy-ised.

The above is a quote made by Miss K last February which inspired this thread, though this is not intended to be a continuation of the Eternal Debate. Rather, to use two non-Buffyverse examples, is love a case of immediate attraction like John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara in "The Quiet Man," or is it possible to, like Albert Finney in "The Big Fish," become the kind of man who Jessica Lang could and eventually fall in love with?

(Feel free to go and review the two movies if you aren't familiar with them)

Personally, I definitely believe that it is quite possible to earn someone's love. If it weren't, my wife and I would not have just celebrated our 28th anniversary last Saturday.

 

[Kana]

Ok I haven't seen those movies but I still don't like the idea of having to earn someone's love. I just think you either love someone or you don't. The only way I'd accept Spuffy is if Spike grew into the sort of person Buffy could love. Love isn't an obligation based upon noble deeds, it's subject to the people involved, attraction, values etc.

Putting aside the lack of romantic onscreen chemistry and the curse, I think Cangel is a perhaps my ideal ship. It has the advantage of two people having similar values and getting to know each other over time. I suppose I didn't like that Buffy and Angel almost instantly fell in love. I can relate to it to a degree but you know...

And with Spuffy, I don't like how Spike had to change because he though it's what she wanted. I felt like Mr T in the Snickers ad, "Spike, get some nuts!!!"

Is it possible to earn love? Maybe. But I wouldn't want someone to change who they are for me. If they developed as a person and I fell for the person they became, that's different.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Whee, another 'ship debate! *claps hands*

Well, gosh, this is a difficult topic. I, like Kana, feel a bit uncomfortable with the idea that one has to "earn" someone's love. It makes it sound like love's a commodity, you know, like "earning a living." Love should not be a contest to prove yourself as worthy. Men think that they can "win" women over by doing good and being nice to them, yet that's not all that's needed. There needs to be passion. Spike had to earn her trust not her love.

That said, I do believe that Spike deserved her love. He gave up everything for her. He made her mission his. He was there for her when no one else was. He allowed her to use him. He sacrificed himself for her mission, to win her war. Spuffy wasn't ideal. But that's why we love it so much, because its so highly flawed. For a long time, it was one-sided love. I guess what I'm trying to say is that regardless of if Spike earned or deserved her love, that doesn't guarantee she loved him back. Of course I believe she did, but just to play Devil's Advocate. After the AR, Spike did need to earn her trust back. The most perfect, amazing guys are in love with girls all the time and its unrequited. And vice versa. You can't break your back trying to "earn" someone's love. It's a losing battle if the love is not already there. They're either love you for they won't. Plain and simple. In other words, the "worthy" don't always triumph in the end.

Perhaps we're thinking of the same thing here yet I call it "deserving" and you call it "earning." I think we agree that Spike did everything for her and was worthy of her love.

 

[white avenger]

There seems to be some confusion here, probably because of my use of "The Big Fish" as an example of "earning" someone's love. The man in the movie fell in love with the woman at first sight. Then he immediately set out improve his lot in life (he was a simple carnival roustabout. whereas she came from a wealthy and cultured family) in order to make himself worthy of her love, and convince her, despite the fact that she was engaged to another man, that he was, indeed, the man who she would love the most and should spend her life with.

(That's still probably a poor explanation, but the movie made it quite clear)

 

[Kana]

I guess I believe that change should come from within. In a way Buffy was right, Spike didn't really know himself because he was defining himself through other people. I think, however in the end he became someone who Buffy could love, but as Joan said, it's not about the gestures but the fact that he became the sort of man she would love.

I love the narrative part of Spuffy though but I don't relate to it in RL.