Spike-less Season 7

[Blaze]

Wood and Andrew got no where near as much screen time as Spike, We got loads of scenes of a tortured Spike, and spike feeling bad for himself, a whole episode of him killing again, a whole episode of fixing his trigger - that didn't play into the overall season arc that was very underdeveloped, thats two episodes at least that we could have learned more about the potentials which was a story with great potential but kinda fizzled and is now regarded as one of the crappier parts of season 7

I agree that he did have insane screen time, but when I compare it to Angel in s3 for example, we did have an a whole episode of Angel coming back, an episode of the gang finding out, an episode of Angel trying to kill himself, and episode of Angel being poisoned. So Angel to me got just has much screen time as Spike in that season but the writers were able to balance the plots still. To me that means it comes down to two things, either people liked Angel more so they were fine with the fact that he got a lot of screen time, but not with Spike. Or, s7 simply had too many storyline and they couldn't keep up with everything. That's the reason my complaints aren't about too much Spike, but more so about having too many things happening at once. For example, I'd rather them remove episodes like Storyteller than episodes like The killer in me (that was partially Spike central). Ps. I do love Storyteller so I'm glad they had it, but it was still not exactly essential to the plot.

He hadn't really been a main character though, in season 4 and 5 he was a background character who provided comedy, it wasn't till season 6 that he became a main proper leading man character. He got plenty of air time from then on, but thats also when people started to complain that the scoobies stopped interacting as much, and season 6 often tops polls we've done on here as the worst season.

Again, I agree that the Scoobies stopped interacting around that period of time, but again I don't blame Spike. S6 was definitely very dark, and they fact that they had an abuse/depression storyline and an addiction storyline is to me why the Scoobies drifted apart. As much as I wished for s7 to fix that, I don't think the writers really wanted too, as shown by s8 of the comics where the characters are equally drifting apart (without Spike).

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I agree that he did have insane screen time, but when I compare it to Angel in s3 for example, we did have an a whole episode of Angel coming back, an episode of the gang finding out, an episode of Angel trying to kill himself, and episode of Angel being poisoned. So Angel to me got just has much screen time as Spike in that season but the writers were able to balance the plots still. To me that means it comes down to two things, either people liked Angel more so they were fine with the fact that he got a lot of screen time, but not with Spike. Or, s7 simply had too many storyline and they couldn't keep up with everything. That's the reason my complaints aren't about too much Spike, but more so about having too many things happening at once. For example, I'd rather them remove episodes like Storyteller than episodes like The killer in me (that was partially Spike central). Ps. I do love Storyteller so I'm glad they had it, but it was still not exactly essential to the plot.

The difference for me is, although maybe it's just that I don't like Spike so I'm seeing it different, but the balanced seemed to be much better, Angel had those stories, but we still had Willow/Oz stories, Xander/Cordy stories and Buffy/Xander/Willow/Giles stories the balance between the stories was so much better.

I also think the stories were more intertwined, The story about Angel getting poisioned wasn't really about Angel, it was about Buffy and Faith, whereas with Season 7 all the Spike stories are about Spike, or Spike and Buffy. His character didn't integrate with the other characters stories.

 

[TotallySpiked]

The difference for me is, although maybe it's just that I don't like Spike so I'm seeing it different, but the balanced seemed to be much better, Angel had those stories, but we still had Willow/Oz stories, Xander/Cordy stories and Buffy/Xander/Willow/Giles stories the balance between the stories was so much better.

I do think not liking him has something to do with it so I can understand why you feel that way about season 7. It was very Spike-centric but at the same time I don't blame him for the animosity between the scoobies. I agree with [MENTION=8404]Blaze[/MENTION]- the writing is a massive negative for that season.
The scoobies were drifting apart for a while- to me the show never had the same feel post season 3. I think Buffy was right when she said that she has always been pushing people away. If she had just been honest about being in Heaven instead of a hell dimension, season 6 wouldn't have been so dark because she would have had her support network instead of seeking it from Spike. She had plenty of chances to come clean about her and Spike too. Xander and Anya's relationship, I think, was pivotal in pushing Xander and Willow apart- the girls never got along. Xander never confided in his 'best friends' about his concern for his impending marriage. Willow never acknowledged having a magic addiction or even an addictive personality until she almost destroyed the world and took her friends with it.
None of this was Spike's fault. Yes, he was involved in the storylines, but the scoobies inability to share things with each other is the reason they started drifting apart. By the time you get to season 7-they're all such different people. Instead of trying to fix it, the writers just throw in 578488 potentials, Wood and Andrew into the mix. This took away important chances for scoobie moments. If season 4 is anything to go by, Spike would have been there, in the room, when decisions were being made- his inclusion was going to be there either way. The writers just added way too many people and it hindered the relationship of the core characters.

 

[Kean]

A Spikeless S7?

Carlsberg don't do Buffy seasons, but if they did, they'd probably be the best Buffy seasons in the world.

 

[Robb Stark]

I think something that should noted, and which hasn't really been so far, is that a major network show, especially one that is action-orientated, has to have a dynamic male lead. Without Spike, and with Angel tied up on his own show, how would that problem have been solved?

This isn't about Spike as a character, but more about how he was the only real option to fill that role. Think about it. By S7 BTVS was a VERY female driven show. I mean, S6 had, who? Spike and Xander, and Xander has long been established as not being in that role. He was a strong supporting character, not a lead. Now, the argument can be made that Xander's role should have been structured differently, I can see that, but by S7 it wasn't. And clearly the writers/producers had next to zero faith in Xander in that capacity because he has virtually no real presence in S7. Hell, Andrew and Wood had to be brought in late because there were so few guys in the series.

Saying things like the Potentials could have been developed more or the Scoobies development could have been focused on more is nice and all, but it doesn't solve a very real logistical problem the show had boxed itself into by that point. Spike was the only viable option to be the male lead.

 

[sosa lola]

I don't necessarily think they would bring Angel back for more male characters. Xander's role would be bigger, probably as Buffy's anchor and support, his relationship with Anya would have probably gotten more screen time, and his strong friendship with Dawn would have developed more on screen. Wood would have probably become the male lead and Buffy's love interest - though I don't understand why Buffy needs to have a love interest. Andrew will be there as the comic relief, which means we will have three main male characters with Giles showing up in a lot of episodes. All and all, it's still much more male characters than the female characters in Angel the Series.

With Spike gone, the season will change drastically because when S7 wasn't about Buffy, it was about Spike. Not to mention that Buffy's arc was very attached to Spike's. First of all, there will be no trigger storyline, no kidnapping of Spike, no trying to get the chip out of Spike's head resulting to Buffy and Giles' downfall, and no heavy Spuffy tension.

The season will start with the Scoobies learning to heal their wounds and becoming closer, however, with the First not focusing so much on Spike, it will probably transform into Buffy most of the time to drive the Scoobies apart. It will appear as Buffy to Xander, Willow, Dawn and Giles more often leading them to betray Buffy – Empty Places would probably make more sense had the First played Buffy's friends all season. Wood's storyline with Spike wouldn't exist, so that means there will be no fallout with Buffy. Faith would probably come back earlier and we would probably have a Buffy/Wood/Faith triangle. Caleb would come to the story earlier as well and Xander would lose his eye in the middle of the season, leading to Xander trying to adjust to his new situation with Anya or Dawn's help. Giles' arc about the loss of the council would be more sympathetic. Dawn's Junior Watcher arc would be more central.

There will be no amulet!!! The biggest plus. And the writers would have to find a more interesting way to defeat the First with each main character playing an important role.

 

[Robb Stark]

I don't necessarily think they would bring Angel back for more male characters. Xander's role would be bigger, probably as Buffy's anchor and support, his relationship with Anya would have probably gotten more screen time, and his strong friendship with Dawn would have developed more on screen. Wood would have probably become the male lead and Buffy's love interest - though I don't understand why Buffy needs to have a love interest. Andrew will be there as the comic relief, which means we will have three main male characters with Giles showing up in a lot of episodes. All and all, it's still much more male characters than the female characters in Angel the Series.

But that's the thing. Sure, AtS had a more male-dominated cast, but there was always a very clearly defined female lead. For the first four seasons, there was never any doubt that Cordy filled that role. Once she left the show Fred had been around long enough and was in the right position to take over for her. It isn't just about the statistical number of male or female characters. It's about how the show is structured. Xander, Andrew and Wood are very good characters who I like, but Xander hadn't been the male lead since S1, Andrew was comedy and Wood was brand new. It isn't just being romantically linked to Buffy (although that's a part of it, for sure). However, very few network shows targeting that type of demographic are going to have a full season without their lead, male or female, not having a romantic interest. That's exceedingly rare.

Spike had been around in a full time role since S4. The audience was very accustomed to him and, clearly (for the most part) liked him. That's why he was pushed so hard in that role in the final two seasons.

While there are a few things I would have liked to switch around or change, for the most part I had no problem with that.

 

[sosa lola]

Riley was the male lead in S4 and beginning of S5 and he was a brand new character. I think Wood would have been very suitable to play the male lead had Spike not been in S7.

 

[Robb Stark]

Riley was the male lead in S4 and beginning of S5 and he was a brand new character. I think Wood would have been very suitable to play the male lead had Spike not been in S7.

True, but at the time BTVS didn't have anyone nearly as entrenched as Spike to fill that role. Plus, while I personally like Riley, he was hugely rejected by the overall audience, to the point that he was written out of the show because he wasn't working. I mean, S4 is the Riley year, and it was outdrawn ratings wise by S1 of Angel and had a big drop from S3. It isn't hard to see why the producers wouldn't want to repeat that.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

As others have said, the parallel with Buffy/Angel in seasons 2 and 3 worked because there were so many other great relationship dynamics that were explored and other storylines that were intertwined.

That being said, the problem with season 7 wasn't that there was too much Spike or too much Spuffy, (again we had plenty of emphasis on Angel and Bangel in earlier seasons and it worked), the problem was that there was TOO LITTLE of everyone else. Nobody else got any juicy story lines or had any compelling relationships which we actually rooted for or were interested to see. There as Willow/Kennedy, (even if you like Kennedy, it's easy to agree that it was very poorly executed), and a whiny Xanya 2.0 which was about rehashing the past and didn't provide anything interesting or new.

I mean, look, the writing in season 7 was subpar compared to the rest of the series. Spike or no Spike.

 

[Buffy Summers]

It would have been awesome.

I think they would have had Dawn wear the amulet. It would be her chance to die for Buffy the way Buffy had died for her. And we could have had the tearful, "I'm not really your sister" "Yes you are" exchange.

 

[Blaze]

It would have been awesome.

I think they would have had Dawn wear the amulet. It would be her chance to die for Buffy the way Buffy had died for her. And we could have had the tearful, "I'm not really your sister" "Yes you are" exchange.

I actually really like this idea! Maybe they could have had the amulet release the power of the key, re-transforming Dawn into energy, and somehow destroying all the vamps. Could have been a cool way to end the whole Dawn arc (although I really like Dawn so I wouldn't really want her to die). Would have made s8 awesome too, just to see the aftermath.