Spike on "Angel" sooner

[Taake]

So when I was looking around for things for the newsletter I stumbled upon an old interview on youtube with David Boreanaz and James Marsters, presumably around season 5, and asked about it Boreanaz expressed his regret that Spike hadn't been brought on the show sooner because of the Spike and Angel dynamic and the other sides of Angel you got to explore.

This got me thinking that I too think that that would have been a really good idea.
Theoretically at least. I mean logically I know that there was way too much going on during Angel s4 and adding Spike would have made no sense at all in the scope of the show, but still illogically I can still enjoy the theoretical concept.

I mean really - say that you have a unique illness (might be poor to equate a soul with illness but bear with me) and you know that there is only ONE person in the entire world who also has that disease and has considerable experience with it. If you were in the initial throws of it - would you not seek assistance or help of any kind rather than hole up in some basement?

So, Buffy and the intricate plot of Angel s4 aside, is there anyone else who would have liked to see Spike sooner on Angel? And if not for the full season then maybe for a few episodes? I don't know, I guess it's the Spangel in me talking, but Boreanaz really got me wishing for "could've been" here 🙂

 

[Mr Trick]

Could see a case for this yes. It is a shame he did only get the one season as I for one enjoyed his interactions with Angel and the other cast members during that time.

 

[Lyri]

Send him to ATS as soon as he escaped the Initiative. That would have avoided all the sucky things I hate about the show.

I've often said that the only times I like Spike are BTVS S2 and ATS S5 - everything in between I completely despise. I like his dynamic with Angel and I would have liked to have seen more of that, so yeah, ship him off to LA and leave Buffy in peace, lol.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think his early episodes on Angel, before becoming a cast member were really strong. He wasn't on much but they were quality. I think I agree (no really, I said I agree... thats one of the seven signs of the apocolypse) with Lyri (sign #2!) that Spike should have fled to LA after escaping the Initiative..

Imagine Buffy's response when she goes to chastise Angel for coming to Sunnydale in Pangs only to find Spike there and palling around with Angel. First she stumbles across Faith and then Spike. It would be melodramatic gold.

 

[bespangeled]

I think his early episodes on Angel, before becoming a cast member were really strong. He wasn't on much but they were quality. I think I agree (no really, I said I agree... thats one of the seven signs of the apocolypse) with Lyri (sign #2!) that Spike should have fled to LA after escaping the Initiative..

Imagine Buffy's response when she goes to chastise Angel for coming to Sunnydale in Pangs only to find Spike there and palling around with Angel. First she stumbles across Faith and then Spike. It would be melodramatic gold.

Oh YES! BTW - there is much fanfic written with Spike going to LA in both situations. After the Initiative it is generally assumed that more occurred there because Spike had no memory of the surgery and had already healed, while we did see what they did to Oz. To Take You In is a favorite of mine - she gives a differ back story for Spike and there is really no mention of Buffy but much about Dru. And the Angel voice is excellent!

The last time I saw him, he chained me to a ceiling and had me brutally tortured over the span of several hours. He doesn't like me. I don't like him. We're mortal enemies, and with damn good reason too. He's been a walking liability since the moment I turned him. And I know perfectly well what Wesley and Cordelia will have to say about it when they get here in the morning.

I step away from the doorway and gesture towards the apartment. "Come inside."

( http://www.fangedfour.com/fangs/fiction/anonymous.html )

There are also a few stories that deal with Spike realizing he has to see Angel (who has just been rescued from the ocean) before he has to go to Sunnydale. Of course that leaves him in Sunnydale until he gets the soul.

 

[thetopher]

Spike's character almost certainly would've been better on Angel's show. Maybe sending him there after the Initiative thing or after Buffy's death. We might've got some decent, nuanced character development instead of Spuffy.🙁
I thing in hindsight this would've been best for all characters involved; Spike, Angel (judging by DB'S comments) and Buffy.

 

[Mr Trick]

Well bar the last season I liked him on Buffy. Yeah, it would have been good to have had at least a couple of seasons of him on Angel, but I certainly would have moved on at the Buffy S4 stage. I loved the banter between him and Xander during that season.

 

[Lyri]

or after Buffy's death.

I don't think that would have worked. I think AtS's story would have been too established by then. This is when Darla showed up pregnant and the whole heavy arc of the next two seasons started and I don't think Spike would have had a place in that yet. He was an established character in his own right and he (nobody panic) deserved to have his own place, time to grow into the story. So I think him moving over as soon as he escaped the Initiative, you know, instead of hanging around in the two he literally got captured in, it would have given him time to grow into the story naturally, find his own place. He might even have gone and gotten his soul on his own terms, not to help him get into someone's pants.

Or he might have been the Biggest of the Big Bads, throwing his lot in with W&H in order to get the chip out.

 

[Mr Trick]

I don't think that would have worked. I think AtS's story would have been too established by then. This is when Darla showed up pregnant and the whole heavy arc of the next two seasons started and I don't think Spike would have had a place in that yet. He was an established character in his own right and he (nobody panic) deserved to have his own place, time to grow into the story. So I think him moving over as soon as he escaped the Initiative, you know, instead of hanging around in the two he literally got captured in, it would have given him time to grow into the story naturally, find his own place. He might even have gone and gotten his soul on his own terms, not to help him get into someone's pants.
Or he might have been the Biggest of the Big Bads, throwing his lot in with W&H in order to get the chip out.

Have to say I've heard worse ideas. Only thing is it might have felt a bit like been there and done that for Spike. I know he had to share the limelight with Angel as the lead villain during Buffy S2 but still he has certainly been one of the biggest thores in her sides over the years.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

He might even have gone and gotten his soul on his own terms

Which I'm sure as soon as Spike Shanshu'd in LA he would have been hunting for a way to get a soul anyway.

 

[white avenger]

If Spike had moved to "Angel" at, for instance, the end of Season 5, it would mean that he

1) didn't honor his promise to Buffy that he would take care of Dawn,

2) would have had no reason to have gone to Africa to regain his soul,

3) would never have gained the self confidence that he gained primarily because of Buffy's trust, support, and belief in him in Season7,

4) would never have had the chip removed,

5) would never have heard Buffy tell him that she loved him, whether he believed it or not,

6) would never have died heroically in the Hellmouth,

7) probably wouldn't have been able to beat Angel in the fight for the Cup Of Eternal Mountain Dew.

Basically, all of the things that made him the champion that he became on "Buffy" would never have happened, making him just another vampire, with the added disadvantage of having a chip in his head.

Sorry, but I ain't buyin' it.

 

[SiegePerilous02]

I think Spike should have gone into hiding after season 4 in order to justify Buffy and the Scoobies not killing him after the Adam plot. If season 5 established that Buffy was having difficulty tracking him down, he could still pop up once in a while. We could still get "Fool For Love" (which is, oddly enough, one of my favorite episodes) and the like.

And finally, after an episode like "Crush" makes it readily apparent that Buffy fully intends to kill him, he could leave for L.A with Drusilla in order to join up with Darla for the Dark Angel vs. Wolfram and Hart arc. The arc was originally planned to go until the end of season 2, so we could have had Angel vs. his entire old crew, plus Lindsey and Lilah. That would have been some awesome s**t right there, guys. We could also get some badly needed Darla/Spike interactions. Ideally, I'd like him and Dru go out on a high note in a blaze of glory, but they could have found other uses for both of them in later seasons.

 

[jom]

Spike was great on season 5 angel. I think he came at the right time. i dont think no soul Spike would had been that great on angel plus season 3-4 wesley has the best character growth of any buffyverse character, Spike would had gotten in the way of that. Maybe at the end of season 4 but not without a soul.

Im currently watching season 4 of buffy, Spike was ok but he wasnt that good. He reminds me a little bit of Connor, "hey scoobies i need your help, initiative guys are after me"--Spike gets helped, the scoobies later ask him for some help--"Dont you guys get that i hate you, im gonna send faith after you, hehehe". And no, he was not kidding, very connor like

 

[Taake]

If Spike had moved to "Angel" at, for instance, the end of Season 5, it would mean that he

1) didn't honor his promise to Buffy that he would take care of Dawn,

2) would have had no reason to have gone to Africa to regain his soul,

3) would never have gained the self confidence that he gained primarily because of Buffy's trust, support, and belief in him in Season7,

4) would never have had the chip removed,

5) would never have heard Buffy tell him that she loved him, whether he believed it or not,

6) would never have died heroically in the Hellmouth,

7) probably wouldn't have been able to beat Angel in the fight for the Cup Of Eternal Mountain Dew.

Basically, all of the things that made him the champion that he became on "Buffy" would never have happened, making him just another vampire, with the added disadvantage of having a chip in his head.

Sorry, but I ain't buyin' it.

Well my question specifically wasn't about whether he should have gone after season 4. It was should he, at least for a few eps, have gone after season 6 (under the added assumption that that would have been a possibility) when he had been souled.

However there's nothing to say that had he gone earlier to Angel that they wouldn't have found a way to have his chip removed.

 

[Mr Trick]

If Spike had moved to "Angel" at, for instance, the end of Season 5, it would mean that he

1) didn't honor his promise to Buffy that he would take care of Dawn,

2) would have had no reason to have gone to Africa to regain his soul,

3) would never have gained the self confidence that he gained primarily because of Buffy's trust, support, and belief in him in Season7,

4) would never have had the chip removed,

5) would never have heard Buffy tell him that she loved him, whether he believed it or not,

6) would never have died heroically in the Hellmouth,

7) probably wouldn't have been able to beat Angel in the fight for the Cup Of Eternal Mountain Dew.

Basically, all of the things that made him the champion that he became on "Buffy" would never have happened, making him just another vampire, with the added disadvantage of having a chip in his head.

Sorry, but I ain't buyin' it.

This is the thing for me. By staying on Buffy I do think the character develop more than if he had gone to Angel at the time. The Dawn narrative you mention is one I really enjoyed watching unfold too.

I think Spike should have gone into hiding after season 4 in order to justify Buffy and the Scoobies not killing him after the Adam plot. If season 5 established that Buffy was having difficulty tracking him down, he could still pop up once in a while. We could still get "Fool For Love" (which is, oddly enough, one of my favorite episodes) and the like.

And finally, after an episode like "Crush" makes it readily apparent that Buffy fully intends to kill him, he could leave for L.A with Drusilla in order to join up with Darla for the Dark Angel vs. Wolfram and Hart arc. The arc was originally planned to go until the end of season 2, so we could have had Angel vs. his entire old crew, plus Lindsey and Lilah. That would have been some awesome s**t right there, guys. We could also get some badly needed Darla/Spike interactions. Ideally, I'd like him and Dru go out on a high note in a blaze of glory, but they could have found other uses for both of them in later seasons.

Am with you here. Spike is easily one of those characters who could bource about between shows and it not weaken his character or the stories. His early appearance in In the Dark was maybe one of the highlights of the first season of Angel.

Spike was great on season 5 angel. I think he came at the right time. i dont think no soul Spike would had been that great on angel plus season 3-4 wesley has the best character growth of any buffyverse character, Spike would had gotten in the way of that. Maybe at the end of season 4 but not without a soul.

Im currently watching season 4 of buffy, Spike was ok but he wasnt that good. He reminds me a little bit of Connor, "hey scoobies i need your help, initiative guys are after me"--Spike gets helped, the scoobies later ask him for some help--"Dont you guys get that i hate you, im gonna send faith after you, hehehe". And no, he was not kidding, very connor like

Never heard this one before. Not sure I can see much of a link between the characters to be honest. No question Spike is far more interesting than Connor for me.

 

[jom]

Never heard this one before. Not sure I can see much of a link between the characters to be honest. No question Spike is far more interesting than Connor for me.

Connor was a backstabber, after angel threw him out of the hotel he would often go back there, trying to reconnect but you knew it was a matter of time before the the little motherfxxer stabs angel in the back again and again and again. Somebody who genuinely ask for help and later stabs you in the back to later ask for help again to stab you again is an annoying motherfxxer.

 

[Mr Trick]

Connor was a backstabber, after angel threw him out of the hotel he would often go back there, trying to reconnect but you knew it was a matter of time before the the little motherfxxer stabs angel in the back again and again and again. Somebody who genuinely ask for help and later stabs you in the back to later ask for help again to stab you again is an annoying motherfxxer.

I could see your point from that angle. Its just the reasoning behind the characters actions were very different. Also Spike did grow more of a back bone from 5 onwards that was one of the interesting aspects of him moving to the good team.

 

[bespangeled]

Well my question specifically wasn't about whether he should have gone after season 4. It was should he, at least for a few eps, have gone after season 6 (under the added assumption that that would have been a possibility) when he had been souled.

However there's nothing to say that had he gone earlier to Angel that they wouldn't have found a way to have his chip removed.

Angel ' Get a soul and we can take out the chip"
Spike "If a ponce like you can handle it!"
Then we get the drama - damn, I like this.

 

[white avenger]

Well my question specifically wasn't about whether he should have gone after season 4. It was should he, at least for a few eps, have gone after season 6 (under the added assumption that that would have been a possibility) when he had been souled.

However there's nothing to say that had he gone earlier to Angel that they wouldn't have found a way to have his chip removed.

It has occurred to me that Spike's and Faith's roles during Season7 could have quite easily been reversed. Giles, instead of Wes, could have visited Faith at the beginning of Season 7 to recruit her in the fight against the First Evil, instead of Angelus. Spike could have shown up in LA at the beginning of Season 4, wanting Angel's help adjusting to his new soul, and have been there to help with Angelus, then gone back to Sunnydale with Willow to help there. The support by Buffy against the wishes of her friends in the case of Spike could have worked just as well for Faith.

Of course, doing that would have raised complaints about the writers catering to the Fuffy shippers at the cost of the relationships of Buffy and the Scoobies, and would have meant that Spike and Buffy would have left Sunnydale together at the end of the season, while Faith reappeared at the beginning of Season 5.

Not precisely what you had in mind, but I think that it would have served the purpose quite well.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Angel ' Get a soul and we can take out the chip"
Spike "If a ponce like you can handle it!"

I dont think it would work that way.. it would be:
Angel: Get a soul and we can take out the chip
Spike: Take out the chip and I will get a soul
back and forth that way for a good 5 minutes...