Spike Regaining His Soul

[white avenger]

Discussions about the "Seeing Red" events and how they led to Spike's ultimately regaining his soul have set me to wondering about something. We know precisely when he left Sunnydale to attempt to regain his soul, but has it ever occurred to anyone that he might have been investigating the possibility of doing so BEFORE his attack on Buffy? I ask that simply because it would seem to me that preparations and arrangements for the undertaking of such a thing would almost HAVE to require more than just Spike hopping onto his motorcycle and riding off in one scene, then strolling into an African village in the next.

I think that Spike had been planning on attempting something like this for quite some time, possibly as long as from the end of Season 5. Almost certainly, he knew where to go and pretty much what would be required of him beforehand, and, since the location of Lurkie and his cave didn't appear to be common knowledge, Spike would have had to do some research beforehand just to know where to go to "seek out a legend."

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

I chalked it up to his having knowledgeable contacts and a little bit of creative license with the time. [shrug]

 

[Giantevilhead]

Nah, these kinds of things sort of just happen in the Buffyverse. It's kind of like how they can find an extremely rare and powerful artifact that has existed since the dawn of time a day after reading about it in an ancient text, and it just happened to be lying somewhere around Sunnydale.

 

[pieceofgosa]

I'm with the other guys, Spike knew where to go because the writers did. Not everything has to make perfect sense.

 

[theroyalgoat]

I know the specific topic, but there's something about Spike regaining his soul that has confused me so I would like to ask a question about it.

Angel and Angelus are completely seperate ententies, why are both Spikes so completely similar....almost completely the same?

 

[pieceofgosa]

Angel and Angelus are completely seperate ententies, why are both Spikes so completely similar....almost completely the same?

To stay within the diegesis & avoid the easy answer of "it's what the writer's wanted", I would suggest that vampires in the 'verse are effectively human/demon hybrids. I would think that as each person is different, so is each demon. Getting sired is essentially a permanent, integrated demon possession so the demon's personality(for want of a better word) affects the attitude & personality of the vampire. It's a crappy little theory that has many, many holes but it's my crappy little theory 🙂

 

[Kana]

It's been a while since I've seen the episode but it's possible Spike knew about this demon for a while, basically because he's been around a bit. As far I remember, we don't know that this demon specifically granted souls. He simply grant wishes and it's more than possible that Spike knew this independent of seeking a soul.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think Spike either a)new about a wishing demon b)knew who to punch for information.

He could have thought about it before, getting a soul, but I doubt he planned it.

I know the specific topic, but there's something about Spike regaining his soul that has confused me so I would like to ask a question about it.

Angel and Angelus are completely seperate ententies, why are both Spikes so completely similar....almost completely the same?

I choose to believe that Angel and Angelus are the same people, they're not different entities. But it's kind of like saying that peope with split personalities are still the same person.

Angelus is Angel without a soul. That's it. But since the soul makes Angel(us) so different, a new part is added, it seems as if they're different people, and Angel(us) certainly seems to link to think that, but I think he's kidding himself. It's like with split personalities, which was originally one person, but had another "grow" because of trauma or whatever. That person is like half of the original person, the repressed needs. That's kind of what I consider Angelus to be. But that analogy isn't perfect, since personality disorder is probably way more complicated than that (I only got the info I have from watching TV).

The scene in Ats season 4, when Angelus and Angel fight, happened in Angel(us) head, and was therefor not proof enough that they're two different entities, so I'm going with my theory.

 

[white avenger]

I think that Spike had been planning on attempting something like this for quite some time, possibly as long as from the end of Season 5. Almost certainly, he knew where to go and pretty much what would be required of him beforehand, and, since the location of Lurkie and his cave didn't appear to be common knowledge, Spike would have had to do some research beforehand just to know where to go to "seek out a legend."

In order to clarify--

When I said "Spike had been planning on attempting something like this" I didn't specifically mean a soul as much as I meant earning/winning some very important wish. It could have been anything from removing or deactivating the chip, which we were led to believe that he was there for in the first place, to having Angel grow horns and a huge wart on the end of his,,,nose. In other words, he knew where the place was, he knew how to make arrangements for round trip travel, and he was pretty sure what kind of trials would be involved in getting what he wanted.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I don't think so.

I always took it as from when he left Sunnydale and actually got the soul where a good bit apart, like him getting the soul was during the summer, but he would have left around may (going on show timing)

Like the demon that Spike goes to see how paintings of Willow skinning Warren on it's walls, so it was clearly a good bit after that.

I think when he set out to get the soul he went to get the info first then onto the soul.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I think he'd have to have thought about it. He knew that Buffy loved Angel in part because he had a soul. Without a soul, she'd have staked him and been done with it. He was always jealous of Angel. It's only logical that he would have considered becoming more "like" Angel in that respect, to try to win Buffy. I can't imagine that he hadn't given it some thought at least.

 

[LyteHouse]

It could have been anything from removing or deactivating the chip, which we were led to believe that he was there for in the first place,

I've never believed that Spike went there with the intention of regaining his soul, he wanted to be like he was "before" - a badass vampire again.

The demon just misinterpreted his wish.


Of course, that doesn't take anything away from the hell he endured to get it.

 

[pieceofgosa]

I've never believed that Spike went there with the intention of regaining his soul, he wanted to be like he was "before" - a badass vampire again.

The demon just misinterpreted his wish.


Of course, that doesn't take anything away from the hell he endured to get it.

The writers stated (I forget where) that Spike's dialogue at the end of S6 was deliberately ambiguous to make people think that's what he went there for. If you listen to the way he speaks in S7, he is unequivocal in his statements about why he went to Africa, he went to get his soul so Buffy would love him the way she loves/loved Angel.

 

[LyteHouse]

The writers stated (I forget where) that Spike's dialogue at the end of S6 was deliberately ambiguous to make people think that's what he went there for. If you listen to the way he speaks in S7, he is unequivocal in his statements about why he went to Africa, he went to get his soul so Buffy would love him the way she loves/loved Angel.

Shit, you're right. I'd forgotten all about what he said he in the church. duh!

I guess the moment of the twist ending to season 6 stuck in my head more than the church scene.

Dem pesky writers, messing wif mah head!

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Skytteflickan88 agrees: Really, there were paintings of that?

Yeah, it's when Spike goes into the Cave he looks at the wall and there is a painting there of a female with her hand outstretched to a guy tied up (a cave painting though)

This is the closest pic I could find: http://www.screencap-paradise.com/caps/displayimage.php?pid=65470&fullsize=1
but it sucks, you can kinda see the female with the arm outstretched.

D'Hoffryn then mentions it in Season 7 when Willow summons him

D'HOFFRYN
I figured I'd be hearing from you soon. The flaying of Warren Meers? Oh, truly inspired. That was water cooler vengeance. Lloyd has a sketch of it on his wall.

Which I guess means Spike got his soul back from a demon name Llyod.



Actually I just though of something, could this Lloyd be a vengeance demon, did Spike go to a Vengeance demon to get his soul back??

 

[ILLYRIAN]

So Spikey poos, or Blondie Bear as Harmony lovingly (?) referred to him as went to the demon trials, ' to see a man about a thing '.
Did he plan the trip for a long time?
Vampires are supposed to be psychic and he lived on the hellmouth, two good excuses for his behaviour.
About taking what Spike said in the church as gospel? ( no pun intended ).
Wasn't he off with the fairies?
As logical as a square fruit loop?
Chocked full of sanity?
Precariously hanging on to the cuckoo that flew over the cuckoos nest?
And if he said he could prove that two and two is really six? Some people might have believed him, I wouldn't have.

The cave painting? unless specified, it could just as easily been of Anya and Xander, or Olaf, or D'Hoffryn.

But Spike thinking of getting him a soul, what a massive concept.. ... .. Spike thinking!

 

[Vengeance]

I think it was just because the writers wanted it so, but if you asked them I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned it by saying "yeah, he'd thought about it previously and that's how he knew where to go so quickly."