Spike wanted his soul back, did he?

YummySushiPJs

YummySushiPJs

Scooby
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Throughout season 7 Spike talks about how he went to get his soul back, and he did it for Buffy.

Now I know that at the end of the season 6 they make it LOOK like he wants the chip out so he can hurt Buffy, he says things like "Bitch is gonna see a change" etc, and it's a big twist when the demon gives him his soul.

But what I don't get is, Spike looks confused/shocked/horrified when the Demon says "We will return... YOUR SOUL!" and to me it's always looked like Spike yells "Nooooooo!" when the Demon restores his soul.

Yet in season 7 it is always written that Spike went there with the intention of getting his soul because he was horrified with himself for what he did to her.
 
I think there is that dark question of "was Spike just trying to get the chip out of his head?", but in reality, I think that Spike was trying to get his soul back. The big twist, like you said, was making the audience think that Spike was going to be the big bad of S7, and that the swerve came with him having his soul returned to him.

I've thought about this before, but I'm firmly of the belief that Spike's plan all along was getting his soul back, and that he was doing it for Buffy. He did it because he loved Buffy, and because he truly didn't believe in his current incarnation that he was worthy of her. I don't think for a second that he was doing it to just get the chip out or to hurt her.

It's interesting because one of the big themes of Spike's arc in S7 is that his whole purpose of getting his soul back in the first place was to become, in his own mind, worthy of Buffy, but when he actually did it, he still didn't truly feel like he did deserve her (which is sort of the arc Angel goes through in S3 after having his soul restored). That's one of my favorite parts of the whole "Spuffy" relationship. That Spike's love for Buffy was, through everything pure and true in S7, and he was able to redeem himself in Buffy's eyes. It wasn't about "true love" like Buffy and Angel, it was about trust, redemption and Spike ultimately becoming worthy. I'm a big fan of Spike, and Buffy & Spike, in S7.
 
iShower4free said:
I wish they introduced a character that wasn't Buffy that we could have all loved Spike being with. Idk.
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I liked Spike with Buffy. I just didn't like him with Buffy in the same way that I did Buffy with Angel. I value them in different ways, if that makes any sense. I see them differently. I've said it before, but I like Spike and Buffy in S7 for what I perceived their relationship to be about. In that regard I think Spuffy is awesome. I just never saw them as "one true love, meant for each other" like I did Buffy and Angel, which is (romantic in me coming to the surface) my favorite type of relationship and romance.

That's a big reason why I wasn't fond of Riley. I felt like the show pushed Buffy and Spike differently from Buffy/Angel and made it it's own thing. It felt, to me anyways, like with Buffy/Riley they were trying to replicate what had come before with Buffy/Angel, and that drove me nuts and turned me off Riley big time. I never felt that way with Spike, and he's one of my favorite characters as a result.
 
"Spike's quest was, and ALWAYS WAS, to get his soul restored for Buffy, despite any misleading leaks we may have put out that you fell for." - David Fury on the Bronze Beta, 11/19/02

"Spike looked into his soul at that moment [the attempted rape], and saw the demon in him, and that's what made him want to go get a soul .... We did a big ole mislead on you all, where we wanted you to think he gonna go get the chip out. We knew, the whole time, from the very beginning he was gonna go get a soul. And when he says I want Buffy to have what she deserves, he means a lover with a soul." - Jane Espenson, Buffy writer
Radio interview on the Succubus Club, 5/22/02

Moderator: "At the end of the finale, I thought Spike wanted to get the chip out, not get his soul back?"
Joss Whedon: "Noooo.... but you were meant to think that. I personally devised something called a plot twist."
At the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences panel "Behind the Scenes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer," 6/18/02

Any looks of surprise, statements that are misleading, etc were part of that "misdirect," or "Plot Twist." Lame? Yes. Confirmed as to the original intent of the writers/characters? Also, yes.
 
R
Robb Stark
Pretty much says it all right here
Thanks for the helpful if somewhat unnecessary quotes but I already knew that the intention was to mislead, as stated in my post (I've read interviews/listened to commentaries etc myself). I am quite aware that everything leading up to Spike getting his soul back was a mislead.

Doesn't change the fact that on-screen, at the moment Spike actually gets his soul back, he is shocked and appears to object.

That particular moment has, to my knowledge, never been explained by anybody.
 
There's an uncomfortable but real possibility that the writers changed their collective mind after the Season 6 finale, and had a few meetings to the effect of "Okay, the story we came up with isn't gonna fly with fans, so let's just say he meant to get the soul all along. We're going to have to back this up by loudly insisting that the evidence to the contrary in the aired episode was actually a mislead. Everyone cool with that?"

We'll never know for sure.
 
And after that S7 'retcon', the fandom exploded in cries of rightful indignation and omnipresent, insistent and loud calls 'they are whitewashing !', no? Must be the wrong season or the wrong ship.
 
YummySushiPJs said:
Thanks for the helpful if somewhat unnecessary quotes but I already knew that the intention was to mislead, as stated in my post (I've read interviews/listened to commentaries etc myself). I am quite aware that everything leading up to Spike getting his soul back was a mislead.

Doesn't change the fact that on-screen, at the moment Spike actually gets his soul back, he is shocked and appears to object.

That particular moment has, to my knowledge, never been explained by anybody.
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See, maybe it's just me, but I never even saw it that way. I always just assumed that it was incredibly painful for Spike to have his soul physically thrust back into his body like that. The way Angel got his back was done in a completely different way, and all we really see when it happened to him was near-total fatigue. Spike's always seemed much more violent to me.
 
Let's be honest here. Spike wanted BUFFY back, and he thought that regaining his soul was the way to do it. He had no idea what he was getting into when he walked into that cave in Africa. Up until that point, he had no doubts that Buffy belonged "in the dark" with him. It was only after he regained his soul, ironically, that he both realized that he had never been worthy of her love AND actually, finally, became truly worthy of it.
 
YummySushiPJs said:
Doesn't change the fact that on-screen, at the moment Spike actually gets his soul back, he is shocked and appears to object.
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I don't recall him screaming 'No', I only recall him screaming. I took a look at the script just to be sure and it just says 'screams in agony'. The shocked look came after the hand touched him, as if he were shocked by how painful it was having his soul put back in. That's how I always took it. Of course, the widening of his eyes probably had more to do with being able to add in the special effects.
 
Yes, Spike went to get his soul, I imagine he screamed like that when he got it because it was painful and he didn't expected it to be that painful.
 
YummySushiPJs said:
Throughout season 7 Spike talks about how he went to get his soul back, and he did it for Buffy.

Now I know that at the end of the season 6 they make it LOOK like he wants the chip out so he can hurt Buffy, he says things like "Bitch is gonna see a change" etc, and it's a big twist when the demon gives him his soul.

But what I don't get is, Spike looks confused/shocked/horrified when the Demon says "We will return... YOUR SOUL!" and to me it's always looked like Spike yells "Nooooooo!" when the Demon restores his soul.

Yet in season 7 it is always written that Spike went there with the intention of getting his soul because he was horrified with himself for what he did to her.
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This is something that has always pissed me off about the show. It's clear that Spike went on his mission to get back to being the badass he was before the chip. Spike's reaction when the demon says he's going to restore his soul is proof of the fact that his mission was not about getting his soul back; he wanted to be a monster again.

However, the writers wanted so badly to have this beautiful, epic love story to compete with the earlier seasons' Bangel that they made it seem like Spike wanted his soul back all along, and that he did it for Buffy, and this is clearly not the case.
 
It's been confirmed by the writers that Spike's intention was to get his soul, and the chip thing was meant to trick the audience.

As for the "Nooo", I think that was Spike getting scared at the last minute.
 
R
Robb Stark
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I didn't read what everyone said, but I think Spike wanted his soul back all along. He just didn't realize it. It was probably unconscious and, even if it was conscious, he didn't want to admit to himself that he wanted it back. at the time, a soul meant only bad things to him. It meant to weighted(sp?) down by a concience(sp??) and to feel the guilt of everything you've done. As a vampire who had killed thousands of people and hurt millions of others, a soul was probably the last thing he wanted.

But he probably felt inside that he needed a soul for Buffy to love him. And I have the feeling he probably needed the soul to make sure he wouldn't hurt anyone else the way he had hurt her ever again.
 
So, the writers specifically say "we intentionally misled you," "Spike ALWAYS wanted his soul; it was ALWAYS his intention," and we don't believe them? I don't really understand why. I mean, yeah, we can assume that every plot ever was actually rectonned for any number of reasons. Sure, the writers say that Willow turning evil was always part of the story arc but the truth is that Aly just really wanted to dye her hair black and wouldn't take no for an answer. 🙄 🙂

The reason I posted those quotes was to reiterate that in spite what you see on screen, the writers have made it clear that the intent was always there. Any actions/reactions-- the screaming, the pained look--that made it look like Spike didn't originally intend to have his soul restored were part of that misdirect.

But here's more evidence. Let's look at the actual words.

"You have endured the REQUIRED trials."

(Trials required for what? A chip? Or a soul?)

"So you'll give me what I want."

"Very well. We will restore your soul."

So, if you look at the words, both the demon and Spike are always talking about the same subject--the soul. When the demon qualifies "trials" with "required," he is referring to what is necessary in order to get a soul. Spike confirms that he will be getting what he want, and the demon says "very well," in response.

Just because Spike screams and looks deeply pained when that firey ball of soul is shoved into his chest doesn't mean he didn't always want it. It means it hurt.

And...again...that the writers were trying to mislead you. Probably one of the worst creative choices they made but doesn't mean we question their integrity; there's no proof that that is necessary.
 
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Robb Stark
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evilonion
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Just to bring the topic back to some semblance of a point, as it keeps straying and people are replying to an arguement that was never initially being made...

I never ever said I didn't believe Spike went to get his soul back. I am sure he did and despite misleading words/actions on screen I am sure this was the writers intention. My comment was only ever supposed to be on his conflicting reaction at the point he actually gets his soul. He seems to react with shock and horror and does so, IMO, BEFORE the demon touches him (therefore he can't be reacting to the pain.... cue people now saying he was reacting with fear, last second doubts, etc...).
 
I've always said Spike fully intended to get his soul back when he entered that cave (even if the swerve from the writing team was kind of dumb). However, I do think his motives for doing so tend to get a little...romanticized, if that's the right word. I don't have any doubt that he did it for Buffy, but he didn't do it because it was the right thing to do. The talk that Spike and Angel have in "Destiny" is pretty telling on that end.

I'm not trying to lessen what Spike did, clearly it was pretty incredible, but I don't think he regained his soul because he wanted to stop killing people or anything like that, and the show never implied otherwise.
 
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