Spike's Sire?

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Whistler

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Will someone explain this to me. We all know Drusilla sired Spike, that's a fact because we saw the flashback. Yet on more then one occasion we've seen Spike refer to Angel as his sire. There are two distinct examples I can remember. The first example was in the 2nd season of Buffy in the episode "School Hard" when Spike and Angel meet in the school. Spike says "You were my Sire man!" after discovery something is different with Angel. The second was in the 1st season of Angel in the episode "In the Dark" and Spike mentions something about it. I also think Spike said something like that in the last episode of season 7 (chosen). Will someone explain to me why the discrepency?
 
there are dozens of threads on ths somewhere, but in the interest of starting a new dicussion, i'll answer.

Yes, Drusilla sired Spike, but Spike believes the Angel was the one who created him, the one who made him the monster he became. Angelus showed Spike what being a vampire really meant, so in that sense of the word, Spike's sire was Angel. but the vampire who turned him into a vampire was Drusilla.
 
S
Spirit_Of_Fred
love that banner! super wicked awesome! <3
Initially I think it's only fair to day that this was a massive retcon on Joss' part. The original intention was that Angel would be the vampire that made Spike. However, it was later decided that Drusilla made more sense and so they came up with the idea that a vampire's sire could be anyone along their line.

Therefore, Drusilla is Spike's sire, Angel is Spike's (grand)sire, Darla is Spike's (great grand)sire and so on. Get the idea?
 
Lyri said:
there are dozens of threads on ths somewhere, but in the interest of starting a new dicussion, i'll answer.

Yes, Drusilla sired Spike, but Spike believes the Angel was the one who created him, the one who made him the monster he became. Angelus showed Spike what being a vampire really meant, so in that sense of the word, Spike's sire was Angel. but the vampire who turned him into a vampire was Drusilla.
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That answer pretty much answers it, this part of the discussion really has nothing more.
However, in an attempt to keep a thread from wasting space while starting new discussions with new members, how about we start a discussion based on Spike and Angel.

Who would like to discuss the effects each have on one another from School Hard all the way through to Not Fade Away while also looking at their time 'apart' as I do believe this is the greatest of the relationships in the Whedonverse, more so if Darla and Dru are involved?
 
Ok I was going to say something cool and witty but nothing I can ever say will be as good as evryone else who posted so I'm just gonna go with what's in my head.

Dru is the one that sired Spike, but I guess in a way Spike looked up to Angel more then anyone in the fanged four. Mostly because other then himself Angel was the only other guy and for centuries he was travelling with two women all to himself and hey I know alot of guys that would love that oppurtunity. Also Angelus was the most evil vampire there ever was or ever will be. He was feared and I think Spike liked that about him. Anyway I think Spike refers to him as his sire because out of everyone Angel was the one who taught him how to be bad.
 
It should be noted however that the last time this was explained officially (at least as far as I know was March 20 2000. The link to the original interview with Joss has since disappeared however you can still find it quoted. For example Here, and Here

Officially (reading between the lines) it would seem it's probably more the retcon Arcane describes, but unofficially gotta love that fanwank concerning how Angel made him a monster.

Here's the quote -

LYNN: Two questions that you have given conflicting answers for in the past -- how old is Spike (over 200 or 126), and who's his sire (Angel or Dru)??? What are the official answers?

JOSS: I don't have the math in front of me to figure out Spike's age, but it is closer to 126 than 200. I believe it was in 1850 that Angel made Drusilla and then Drusilla made Spike. Now, this is where it gets confusing for everybody, your sire can mean anybody in the line that made you. So, Drusilla is Spike's sire, but so is Angel in the sense that Angel made Drusilla and Drusilla made Spike. If we were being more literal we would call him a grandsire, but that term does not exist in the vampire world, so sire just means somebody that you are connected to because they came before you on the line. By that reckoning you could say that Darla is Spike's sire since she made Angel.
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Dru may have been the one to sire Spike, but it was Angelus who made Spike into the man that he was. We see this in season five of Buffy and even on Angel. Dru didn't teach Spike because she's really insane and only has a clear thought once in a while.
 
Joss Whedon said in an interview & I quote A vampire's sire refers to anyone prior to them in their 'line'

Does that explain it for you?
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
Just in case someone didn't read the quote 2 posts up right. :)
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