Question Spirituality

Thanks @ILLYRIAN 🙂 I might still go check it out one day (Denmark is my closest, which could be extra fun, no doubt there will be herb in the air there 😉 ).

Kratos said:
Think I first learnt about it from watching the TMNT 1987 series in the 90s
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I think that's really great and don't see why TV cant influence personal spirituality, as stories always have.

It's why reading what Taake suggested was so mindblowing to me. I am really into a show called The OA right now. Season 1 I get, I cant explain it, but I get it. Season 2 went a little over my head. There were parts that spoke directly to me, some cringeworthy and definite hints of 'daddy issues' but honest and true. It resonated with so many people with disabilities and ptsd. It will be super interesting to re-watch with this new education.

I'll be interested to see what you think of season 3 of The 100 @telperion66 It is another with strong nods to Bible history. The core feature being - you don't erase pain, you work through it. Its a great message but too late for many of the friends I left behind (specifically those engaged in maintenance ECT).

I agree mortality and pain comes into evaluating personal beliefs. Its easily seen in Vets and addicts. At 34 I am more than halfway through my life now, the medications I was forced to take have considerably shortened my lifespan and lowered the quality of life left. My belief in God will not waver because of my personal experience in escaping that system. But I know how hard it is to make change on your own. I know how much further I can get in helping other people while working within an organisation. I give up all the time, but regain some strength with my focus on hope through Christ. There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus lived, and that we live within creation. I know this world sucks, cos I've lived in better places.
 
Octavia said:
I think that's really great and don't see why TV cant influence personal spirituality, as stories always have.
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Thanks. I thought it might’ve seemed silly to use a kids cartoon as an example. This is a very interesting thread. Also, thank you for reminding me of my memories of spirituality from school.
 
I disagree (sort of) with Blaze, do older people look for more spirituality as they get older?
The answer to that might be what age group is being referred to?
The older people I know of are more willing to question what does not make sense.

There appears to be many folk who believe that God is responsible (creation) for the planet and for all forms of live. How could I believe in the Gods of the winds and not in the Christians God?
One question that has become apparent was that did man take the guidance of their way of life from God, if so I was curious as to what sort of God would want his son to be murdered by man when he knows how flawed man is? As God is said to have caused the flood that killed all mankind less Abraham and his family.

Thing is as the flood water is starting to rise again, is it God who is causing the flood or mankind?

I don't see anyone starting to make an ark again which begs the question has God given up on mankind?
 
Differentiating between religion and spirituality: I'm not sure older people become more religious, but socially speaking they'd be going to church more (funerals) and be pulled into it by those who are as churches serve as spiritual centers. Most who aren't religious know it isn't worth it to tell your friends you don't believe in their church, let alone their god.

What sparks a rise in religion and cults are hard and scary times (though that's easy for older people to experience). Though the 80s were generally a good time, it had come out of the tumultuous 70s, values were changing, and people feared the end of the world then as well, some of it similar to today, but most of it assuming a nuclear end. This contributed to the Satanic Panics that swept much of the western world at the time. Not that such was the sole reason, but the forces that sparked it have always been around (still are) but the social anxieties were just right for it to become mass hysteria.

And having been homeless and worked with the homeless, I've seen A LOT of religious devotion (I'm not counting those who go to church-sponsored drug rehab programs, either, nor shelters that require listening in on a sermon). It's rather amazing to me, but a sociologist (at least the ones I read books by) would not be surprised by it at all. One little boy who lived a horror story and is one of the reason why I feel like my life wasn't so bad still believed in God to a degree that amazes me to this day.

(Though some runaway kids from middle class homes that believed God took care of them, karma was justice, and spiritual forces even helped their football teams to win often had a bitter disillusionment when faced with what the real world is like away from suburbia. Even so, I'd say many felt betrayed, as if God was still real who was a demon rather than the god or whatever they were brought up to believe was just as real as the tooth fairy. Those kinds--talking everyday people here who think of God as their personal genie as opposed to runaways--crack me today, like when someone prays for a parking spot while driving and then get upset when there isn't one and I'll quip, "Guess they prayed first/harder.")

It's hard to tell, though. My grandmother was very spiritual and religious, and yet she had very little to do with churches, seeing them as the Pharisees condemned by Jesus for the most part. Others go to church because it's expected, and because it helps make money (if they know you at church they're more likely to come to your shop and often assume you're more trustworthy because you go to church, something many scammers and dishonest people exploit), and what they use their Bibles the most for are the names (with birthdays, phone numbers, etc) at the front of it (many will have such a page that they can fill out).



As for me, I think I've never been less spiritual. It's not to say I'm not, it's just that it doesn't matter. I'm agnostic, I think about the paranormal with curiosity and not dismissive of it, I ponder the metaphysical universe as much as the physical (some of what I ponder would be too terrifying for others to think about). I'm not sure of anything, though, and don't feel a need for rituals at this time of my life. My "spiritual attitude" is what will be will be.

I almost shared a dream this morning, now wish I had. There were these goblins (looking vaguely like house elves from Harry Potter) that I had a talk with. Long story short, life and death were just different states of the same thing and that the "dead" were sustained by the energy of the living. It was essentially a type of ecology, like evaporation and rain. And though I recognize it as just a dream it makes enough sense to me.

I might return to a more spiritual and religious nature in the future, but it has never been a passion in my life. I think early childhood experiences caused me to depend on myself rather than authority figures and that gets reflected in my inclination to pray to a higher power. I "prayed" to Mom and Dad to feed me when I was 5 and not only did it not happen I was punched across the room, but thankfully I learned to make my own breakfast (not so easy when you're 5 and some things are out of reach). That's my guess anyway on why I'm the way I am in that regard, and why I don't see my impending death as making me religious. Hell, there was a time I was sure my death was immanent (and do believe a part of me died that day, I was certainly scarred mentally and physically) and I repeated a poem over and over for strength rather than praying as I saw the poem reminding me that I can get out of this if I don't give up while prayer was a waste of time in my book, so it's not something I say naively or without experience.
 
ILLYRIAN said:
As God is said to have caused the flood that killed all mankind less Abraham and his family.

Thing is as the flood water is starting to rise again, is it God who is causing the flood or mankind?

I don't see anyone starting to make an ark again which begs the question has God given up on mankind?
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Not to nitpick, but that’d be Noah you’re talking about. Also, If anyone was gonna build an ark again for biblical reasons I imagine that’d be Jews or Christians, however the end of the flood narrative is God setting the rainbow in the sky as a sign of friendship vowing never to flood the whole earth again. So, if you’re taking the ark literally, you’re probably taking that part literally as well, thus no need to build an ark unless explicitly told by God to so. Just saying.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Oops. Didn't see this.
Yeah, er, oops Taake. That Abraham guy didn't tell me of the name change to Noah.

Just a thought but was the design of the Ark based on the designs of the Chinese warships?

Do you know why the Unicorns weren't on the ark, they was walking behind the Rhinoceros but kept getting to close, seems them Rhino's didn't appreciated being poked up the a_ _ by the Unicorns horn.
 
ILLYRIAN said:
Yeah, er, oops Taake. That Abraham guy didn't tell me of the name change to Noah.

Just a thought but was the design of the Ark based on the designs of the Chinese warships?

Do you know why the Unicorns weren't on the ark, they was walking behind the Rhinoceros but kept getting to close, seems them Rhino's didn't appreciated being poked up the a_ _ by the Unicorns horn.
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Unicorns are mentioned in the Bible but they mean rhinoceros when they say unicorn. Folklore turned the rhino into a horse with a narwhal tusk sticking out of its forehead.
 
Thanks all for sharing 🙂

There is so much more I don't have the words for. The topic could go on and on and on, but in too many directions. Sometimes when I am bushwalking, there is an awareness of levels, like phases? Planes? I hesitate to call it dimensional. This earth can be so beautiful, breathtaking, but is tainted at the human level. There appears to me to be more spaces to it, within it. Would it even be considered the same earth when these spaces are markedly different to each other? I duno, words work even less for me after every migraine.

Prayer, for me is looking within, it is praying to what is in us, the spirit of creation perhaps, to drive my life. In times of great fear, pain or need the prayer is for peace and that comes to me, enough to know it is there and there is a place of rest (within). I do have times when I need to be reminded to pray. My guess is that's why so many in dire need find it helpful, even healing. I do get distressed when vulnerable people are robbed of that hope through misunderstanding of the belief from others, but religion warns that it will always be misunderstood. If the faith is not strong it will be easily swayed. Could the constant challenges towards faith based lives, be why some are actively turning away from 'worldly' things as they mature? Is it why there is so much bitterness from those who have left faith?

Some of my meditation is definitely anti-religious. I try not to look forward or backwards now, but it doesn't stop some bits creeping in. I can get 'stuck', if I am not careful, aware, and being that aware takes a LOT of energy. But... it can also be super fun to go to the place I go to. The only "safe" meditation is listening to the answers of prayer come through me. I wonder if listening is the only true meditation? If the other stuff boarders on to something else that I don't know the name of yet.
 
Unicorn is being used for a extinct wild ox, which was known at the time of composition, but had faded into legend by late antiquity. By this point, the Re'em had become a magical giant of great strength. So, Jerome just translated the name into that of another fabled beast of a faraway magical land.
 
Spanky, was what you wrote an answer ( reply ) to what I said, if so your answer of Genesis 9:11 means nothing to me, if you want me to know what you meant try writing what it is you meant.

As for AlphaFoxtrot, being the last person to say about unicorns I take it that your answer was in reference to me, your reply states quite clearly, "Unicorn is being used for an extinct wild ox." Not by me it wasn't.
Clearly I am led to believe it is your opinion.
What does Re'em refer to?
 
In case you don't have a Bible, Genesis 9:11 says:

11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.

@Spanky is right, no one will need an ark again - but some parts of the world have already started to submerge. New Zealand is already taking in refugees from some of the island nations near them.
 
So you don't believe Gods words then, As at present the ice flows keep melting to stop the sea water from heating up when the ice has gone the waters will keep getting warmer and expanding until the majority of the lands are covered with flood. At which point mankind will all have virtually gone and the atmosphere can cool until an ice age is upon us again.
Here begineth the next lesson as does mankind begineth.
 
@ILLYRIAN: When the Bible speaks of Unicorns, it's not really speaking of Unicorns, the majestic beast that impales you in "Cabin." The Hebrew Word "Re'em" is being translated as "Unicorn,"because nobody knew how to translate "Re'em." The consensus of modern scholarship is that Re'em is the Wild Ox, which lived in Syria when the Bible was written, but was extinct by the time the Bible was translated from Hebrew into other languages. St. Jerome, the man who translated the bible into Latin, didn't know what a Re'em was, so he translated it into "Unicorn," which was understood to be a fabulous retelling of the Indian Rhino, a one horned animal from a mystical faraway land, and this tradition was passed on. Remember, Unicorns/Rhinos were mysterious to the Classical world, but they were real creatures, as opposed to the medieval world, when they faded into legend.
 
ILLYRIAN said:
So you don't believe Gods words then, As at present the ice flows keep melting to stop the sea water from heating up when the ice has gone the waters will keep getting warmer and expanding until the majority of the lands are covered with flood. At which point mankind will all have virtually gone and the atmosphere can cool until an ice age is upon us again.
Here begineth the next lesson as does mankind begineth.
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In the Arctic sea yes, in Antartica no. Ices are expanding there, just saying. It is quite interesting. I’m not denying any melting btw, I just find the differences intriguing, see e.g. Unexpected ice | Earthdata

I get that you don’t like Christianity very much, which is fine, but your dismissiveness is rather shallow and I’m not sure why you feel a need to include it in a thread specifically devoted to spirituality as it seems primarily polemical and doesn’t really explain your own spirituality either?
 
I read the web site that your link directed me to. That site didn't agree with itself, on occasion it said that the ice flow was expanding and then gave reasons why it wasn't. Apparently strong winds were blowing ice particles into water that was then becoming ice, the ice flows were increasing in size but not density. The site said of seasonal increases and decreases in the amount of ice. Q. how do folk measure the amount of ice in the water before great big chunks of ice above the water break off and fall into the water?

My dismissiveness of how Christianity conducts itself is not shallow as it is how I remember the religion of Quaker to view how the other religions conducted themselves.

AlphaFoxtrot,
thanks for explaining Re'em. I am not going to respond about the unicorns as we have different views.
 
ILLYRIAN said:
My dismissiveness of how Christianity conducts itself is not shallow as it is how I remember the religion of Quaker to view how the other religions conducted themselves.

.
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You know in the early history of Quakerism it was at the vanguard of religious freedom for all. In the early American colonies it was to Quaker territory where Catholics had to go if they wanted to hold Mass or the like, because it was only there it was allowed. By your points it seems they’ve gone down in the world since then.

The point was and is, this thread specifically asks people to open up about their spirituality, not to prove why the spirituality of other’s is wrong or silly.
 
The Quaker faith has gone down in value, many Quakers have been of that belief, through the eons of time. Splits in the faith usually came about when moving to a new area.

If I said the way the recognised mainstream churches conduct their services was wrong or silly I'm sorry, I said how the Quaker religion chose to behave. I never said their spirituality was wrong, I did ask what members saw as the meaning of what spirituality was/is but no one answered not that they had to, it is just that I have no understanding of what the word means. (reply #9)
 
ILLYRIAN said:
I never said their spirituality was wrong, I did ask what members saw as the meaning of what spirituality was/is but no one answered not that they had to, it is just that I have no understanding of what the word means. (reply #9)
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Well, I would imagine that no one answered because there is no clear answer to give.
I mean I've been in religious studies for years and spirituality is one of those nebulous terms that is applicable to almost anything, from kabbalah, to new age, to traditional religion, to no religion, spirituality runs the gamut and has to be defined depending on what context you use it in. In general, much like theology, I would say it, as a first principle, relates to some kind of belief or interest in supernatural/transcendent powers of some kind (this can include an enchanted view of nature). Then that spawns secondary features, wherein something more specific can be stated about spirituality as related to a certain group or person. But "spirituality" in itself has only a vague definition at best.
 
Had some odd stuff happen to me lately, some prayers that have been answered, but not in the way I wanted them to be. They've still been answered though, and I cant really ignore that. Everytime I have a wipe out migraine, I don't seem to recover so well anymore. I lose more function but grow in hope.

There is currently a lot in the media here with a religious discrimination bill being passed, and a whole heck of misunderstandings of what love and hate is. It pushes me more towards not wanting to be a part of this world at all. What I mean by that is not that I want to die, but that that I truly want to live - without all of the nonsense trends and politics of the masses. I still don't know where I will end up with all this, but I do know I wont go back to that blind world. This life is misunderstood, but far more freeing.
 
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