Spuffy #2 - General Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joan the Vampire Slayer agrees: Weird. I love Spike AND Buffy almost equally.

Me too. Spike pips her to the post just slightly but I do love both characters.

I'm not sure how widespread the liking Spike/hating Buffy view is, but I've seen it said by quite a few people before. (Probably in the TSR cbox but also possibly on LJ, can't remember exactly...)
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Yea, Spike does put Buffy on a pedestal, which is annoying.
I love both characters. Whether they are together or apart. I couldn't imagine enjoying a ship without loving the characters involved. I'am personally drawn to a particular ship because it involves two characters i appreciate. It is why i like Bangel as well as Spuffy. I'am a massive Angel fan aswell albeit in the Comics he seems to have turned into a selfish person only out for himself. Which is so out of characters judging by the events of IWRY where his sacrifice was immense.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I used to love Angel, too. But I have always preferred him as his own man, without Buffy.
Me too. Spike pips her to the post just slightly but I do love both characters.

I'm not sure how widespread the liking Spike/hating Buffy view is, but I've seen it said by quite a few people before. (Probably in the TSR cbox but also possibly on LJ, can't remember exactly...)

Something about hating Buffy yet loving Spike/Spuffy worries me...
 
Something about hating Buffy yet loving Spike/Spuffy worries me...

The impression I get is that they dislike the way Buffy treated Spike, that he 'deserved' better.

I actually pretty much hate this viewpoint and it really gets on my nerves when I see it in fics, where it's pretty common--Buffy 'suddenly' realises how terribly she's treated Spike (who can't do anything wrong, of course) and has to somehow atone for her behaviour. And at the same time, realises that all the Scoobies need a dressing-down, too, for all the horrible things they ever did/said to Spike.

...wow, that came out a whole lot more bitter than I intended. 😀 I just really hate that kind of fic/viewpoint. Sorry if anyone thinks this, lol.
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
[No message]
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I get what you're saying. It's not that black and white. Both Spike and Buffy treated each other badly. What's so incredible is how they were able to overcome that and turn all that hate and anger into love and friendship. :)
I can understand why people hate the way Buffy treated Spike in season 5. She wasn't considerate at all of Spike's feelings in that season.

In season 6 Buffy used Spike but i didn't hate her for it. It was understandable judging by what she had been through. Nor did i hate Spike despite the attempted rape because i don't think he understood Buffy and didn't know he was doing anything wrong until she kicked him off.

Season 7 is when the ship becomes meaningful and real. It is when the love develops and it is where the memorable scenes are. Buffy doesn't give up on Spike despite huge doubts surrounding him. Spike with his soul no longer acts like a love sick puppy and the relationship develops really well and unfolds so pleasantly on screen. It all seems so natural, it isn't rushed.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Yeah, but Spike did his fairshare of weird sh*t in Season 5...Buffybot, anyone?
I love Spike best of all and Buffy a close second. I really love the dynamics of the pairing and how they complement each other and that is why I ship them. I always cringe when I read stuff by Spuffy shippers that hate on Buffy. And I cringe when I read stuff that is so pro-Spike that it white-washes everything about him. The thing I love about Spike and Buffy is that they are not perfect, that they both mess up, that they both have their bad moments but that they become better people through association with each-other.

Do you think Buffy knew Spike was alive or not? all we have to go on for the next three months is this small image:

surprise.jpg


Theories anyone?
 
I don't believe that Buffy knew that Spike was alive, and furthermore, I think that she is going to be very upset at least, if not totally pi**ed off, at Angel and Andrew, who knew, and Giles, who almost certainly knew, for not telling her as soon as he returned. And she'll probably punch Spike in the nose for not telling her, or at least TRYING to tell her, himself.
 
Is that what the comics look like??? Lame.

well, not all the time - this picture is a very small distant picture of Buffy in a group - I just scanned and cropped it so we could see Buffy's expression.

And for the record - I think that that very cartoony Buffy looks like she is utter shock so I don't think that she was expecting to see Spike and probably didn't know he was alive at all.
 
well, not all the time - this picture is a very small distant picture of Buffy in a group - I just scanned and cropped it so we could see Buffy's expression.

And for the record - I think that that very cartoony Buffy looks like she is utter shock so I don't think that she was expecting to see Spike and probably didn't know he was alive at all.

I dunno, I think that she does know. 🙂 Still, either way, I'm now uber-excited for the get-together... Spuffy lives on. :biggrin3:
 
Tranquility, I totally agree with everything you've said in your above post - I guess great minds think alike! 😉

Do you think Buffy knew Spike was alive or not? all we have to go on for the next three months is this small image:

This is a toughie. I want to believe she didn't. Yet, didn't Allie say that Buffy knows everything Andrew knows? So, that suggests to me that she does know.
As for my interpretation - she looks shocked, definitely. Only Angel and for some reason Willow don't look surprised.
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
I've been a bit suspisious of how much Willow knows for a while now...
Okay. New Week. New Topic.

Moving onto season three...let's talk "Lover's Walk" - the one episode of the season to feature Spike.

Favourite moments?
Any hints of Spuffy?
Favourite quotes?
Anything foreshadowy?
Other comments?

I think i might do a re-watch before writing my comments.

(Keep the general discussion going - these weekly topics are not meant to dominate, just give us something to talk about in the mean time)
 
I'll have to do a re-watch too...I'll be back with comments!

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Have you all seen this interview with James? It's pretty old, but a very cute video:[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0IhP4_UfZY&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0IhP4_UfZY&feature=related[/ame]
 
Spike and Buffy in season 3"¦otherwise known as "Lover's Walk"

I did a re-watch to write this and this really is a great episode. It's a brilliant mix of humour and tragedy.

"What kind of moron would ever want to come back here?"
Love that line from Cordelia! Cut to a big old car crashing into the Sunnydale sign"¦hang on, we've seen this scene before haven't we? We can guess what kind of moron is coming back to Sunnydale. But this time there is no attitude-laden, confident exit from the vehicle; this time he literally rolls drunk out of the Desoto, slurs his "˜home sweet home' and looks all kinds of pathetic.

Spike is drunk and dejected. He and Dru have broken up "“ this is the aftermath of the scene in Fool for Love with the Chaos Demon in Brazil. And everything he does confirms how pathetic he is "“ he's crying, he says he's nothing without her and he blames Angel for turning her head.

This is always how I have interpreted the timeline:
"¢ Becoming part 2 "“ Buffy and Spike's "˜truce'
"¢ Spike flees with Dru
"¢ Buffy flees to LA
"¢ Spike and Dru end up in South America
"¢ Buffy returns home
"¢ During their time in South America Dru cheats on Spike with various species including a Chaos Demon. Dru blames Spike saying that he is "˜covered in the slayer' and that he "˜tastes like ashes'. They break up
"¢ Spike returns to Sunnydale, a shadow of the vampire he used to be.
"¢ The events of Lover's Walk
"¢ Spike returns to South America (?) to find Dru but is unsuccessful in this endeavour "“ he does find out about the ring of Amara in his travels, returns to Sunnydale to find it, meets Harmony, is still bitter about Dru . . .

At this stage Buffy and Angel are insisting that they a "˜just friends' "“ blind Freddy can see that they are deluding themselves. Buffy wants Angel to give her a reason to stay in Sunnydale but he won't - it really highlights the on-off-stay-go indecision of Bangel that goes on all season finally culminating in Angel's departure from town.

I think its fun that they made it known that Mayor Wilkins was aware of Spike and his shenanigans of season two. He describes Spike as a "˜Loose Cannon' which, really, is a perfect description.

Spike and Willow's scene is fantastic "“ he is a great mix of psychopathic and pathetic "“ the result is pretty freaky. No wonder Willow is crying "“ she does fear really well.

Spike and Joyce scenes are always a joy "“ I like the symbolism of Spike being inside while Angel is trapped outside "“ this motif is repeated in Pangs with great effect.

And then we come to what I believe makes this episode so special "“ it is the one time we ever get the Spike-Buffy-Angel combination in action (though who knows what comic #36 will bring). And for me, I find it interesting that Buffy and Spike (SMG and JM actually) totally dominate the scene. You barely notice Angel's existence "“ And I think this is one of the reasons that I find Spuffy so compelling is that the actors had such a great professional rapport and chemistry "“ it was palpable and believable. When Spike is lamenting over the time he and Dru killed the homeless man, Buffy's dry "I guess you had to be there" is spot on perfect. The whole scene actually is superb. No wonder they bought him back for the rest of the series run.

This brings us to the most famous dialogue from the episode:

Buffy: That I'll have to agree with. You're pathetic, you know that?
You're not even a loser anymore, you're a shell of a loser.
Spike: Yeah. You're one to talk.
Buffy: Meaning?
Spike: The last time I looked in on you two, you were fighting to the death. Now you're back making googly-eyes at each other like nothing happened. Makes me want to heave.
Buffy: I don't know what you're talking about.
Spike: Oh, yeah. You're just friends.
Angel: That's right.
Spike: You're *not* friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains, children, its blood... blood screaming inside you to work its will ... *I* may be love's bitch, but at least *I'm* man enough to admit it.

I love that he doesn't deny that he is a pathetic loser "“ I love that he owns his issues "“ I love how he calls Buffy and Angel on being equally as pathetic and he does it with poetic eloquence to boot. And of course he gives us one of the most enduring, iconic even, descriptions of Spike's character "“ "love's bitch".

And I have to mention Buffy's break-up scene with Angel:

Buffy: We're not friends. We never were. And I can fool Giles, and I can fool my friends, but I can't fool myself. Or Spike, for some reason. What I want from you I cannever have. You don't need me to take care of you anymore. So I'm gonna go.

Don't we Spuffies just love the "or Spike for some reason". Well I know I do. He *gets* her "“ he always did, even before there was a Spuffy to speak of.
 
T
thevikingsgirl
That scene rocks! I love it love it love it.
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to let you know that seasonal_spuffy has now started.

SS is a great comm, there's always lots of lovely artwork, excellent fics and other creative Spuffy pieces submitted, so it's definitely worth checking every day to see what's there.

The schedule runs to 30th June this session, so there should be some Spuffy goodness every day (providing everyone who signed up participates.)

My day is the 22nd May, and I don't have everything ready, eek.

Anyway, here's the link to the community, I definitely recommend it:

Seasonal Spuffy
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Thanks for the reminder - I always enjoy S.S.
Up for Discussion this week - Spike and Buffy in Season Four

Spike moves into the neigbourhood - lots of running around under blankets - lots of comic relief...

Favourite Episodes?
Favourite Scenes?
Favourite Moments?
Any hints of Spuffy?
Favourite quotes?
Anything foreshadowy?
Other comments or observations (about Spike and Buffy in season four)?
 
I love season four, I feel sorry for it when it gets so much fandom hate. 😀

And I think it's a great season for what-if Spuffy. Lots of could-have-beens and there's definitely UST going on.

Obviously Something Blue is great for the Spuffy, but whilst I do love the fake engagement, it's Buffy teasing Spike when he's in the bathtub that makes the episode for me.

There are little moments, like in Superstar, when Spike reaches out and touches her hair. What was that about--genuine affection, mockery?

Then of course the scene in the Bronze in Who Are You? - it's not Buffy, but he thinks it is. It's not too much of a stretch to guess that the dreams a la OOMM (without declarations of love) started after that encounter.
 
So Season Four and now things start to get a little bit fun on the Spike and Buffy front…

I know it gets a bad rap but I really quite enjoy season four. It’s fun and different and I like the Scoobies out of high school. And who doesn’t love unemployed Giles? And of course, Spike moves back to town and becomes a cast regular which, in my book, could never be a bad thing 🙂

Favourite/ Important 'Spuffy episodes' Episodes?

Pangs - Because Spike goes to Buffy for help and makes his first tentative steps into Buffy's circle And I love that the group that sits down to Thanksgiving dinner is her team at the end.

Something Blue - because it is pure fantasy that set off light-bulbs over the heads of many. Their chemistry is remarkable in this episode and Willow's spell said nothing about being 'in love' just that they should 'get married' and yet they took it that step further...

And can I recommend this discussion of "Pangs-I Will Remember You -Something Blue" as a trilogy: Tea at the Ford

But of course, for most of season four Buffy is so wrapped up in Riley that she barely notices that Spike exists - and yet, we still get moments...so many deliberate connections between Riley's story and Spikes, Spike's encounter with 'Buffy' at the Bronze that lets the audience know that Spike is not as repulced by Buffy as he would have us believe, The graveyard scenes in Superstar, even the way they bait each other when they first meet at the frat party in The Harsh Light of Day. By this we are gently reminded that there is more to this association than meets the eye.

Favourite/important Moments?
Well I think the opening sequence of Wild at Heart is very important because Spike gets captured by the initative and that sets, well everything in motion doesn't it. No chip, and Spike is still the bad guy with an ever approaching expiry date..with the chip, not quite so clear cut.

Anything foreshadowy?
Well, Restless obviously - I think that Xander's dream hints at Spike and Buffy's future relationship and I think Giles' dream foreshadows Spike's future.



So while season four is not a "spuffy" season, strictly speaking - it still fun and does a lot of ground work for what is to come 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom