Spuffy #2 - General Discussion

[Tranquillity]

It's weird, I never really expected Buffy and Spike to get a happily ever after type ending... but I suppose that I didn't expect Buffy and Angel to get one either. That Buffy and Angel are fated to be together, were destined to fall in love, are fulfilling a pre-destined prophecy frankly leaves me cold, makes me question whether I've been out and out wrong about this show all along. Maybe there is one 'right' reading of the text afterall? Maybe it's not as open to interpretation as we all thought?

And yet, despite my heavy spuffy heart, I still have hope for Spike and Buffy...maybe its because i'm not hanging out for the happily ever after, Maybe it's because I see Buffy and Spike as something beyond a mere romantic entaglement, maybe I'm a blind optimist...

I just think its interesting that the big unresolved story from Buffy season 7 is whether she knows Spike is alive or not, that he 's hardly been mentioned by the characters but he has been alluded to in the text; they don't want us to forget him. And everyone else has made their entrance. Except Spike. Joss is writing that final arc. Joss knows Buffy and Spike better than anyone. I have hope that we'll come out of this intact - It's always darkest before the dawn 😉

By the by, so many Spuffies seem to have spurned the comics - who here is reading them? Who's not? I'm sure I read somewhere that Scott Allie is apparently very interested to see how we Spuffies will like the ending...

And yet...not ten minutes later i come accross this:

Turning to—spoiler alert!—the revelation that Angel is Twilight in Buffy season 8, Atkins promised that there's a lot more story to tell following that development. "If you're an Angel/Buffy fan, there's a big payoff," Atkins says.

"For those of you who are Spike fans, you might be a little disappointed by the end of the last issue," Atkins says. "But you'll blush either way."

"If there's anyone who knows how to end a season it's Joss Whedon," Atkins says, talking about the upcoming Joss-penned final arc of the Buffy season 8 comic

Newsarama.com : WONDER CON '10: DARK HORSE COMICS Panel LIVE!
Whedonesque : Comments on 23544 : (SPOILER) Newsarama is LIVE at the Dark Horse panel at WonderCon 2010.

I'm kinda getting sick of being kicked in the guts by the PTB at Dark Horse.

*heart heavy again*

 

[xaphania]

Could I, maybe, request that there's a separate thread for discussion pertaining to Spuffy and the comics? I try to avoid (as much as I can, anyway) discussion of them, lol.

No worries if it's not possible.

 

[white avenger]

It's weird, I never really expected Buffy and Spike to get a happily ever after type ending... but I suppose that I didn't expect Buffy and Angel to get one either.

When you get right down to it, I don't think that Joss ever intends Buffy, Spike, or Angel to have a "happy ever after" ending, either apart or in any combination of the three that you can come up imagine, simply because of the kind of lives that they all lead. The best that we can ever expect is a brief respite from the battle, and I personally believe that Buffy could enjoy her respite with either man.

Of course, she would have the most fun with Spike.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

If anybody gets a happily ever after it will certainly be out of character for Joss.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Well, if any of them do, I can imagine that it wouldn't really be a "happily ever after" in the traditional sense, it would be more like them, in the final moment, standing back-to-back, giving promises for the future, then "going to work" at the apocalypse. 😀

And for those of you who are upset about Bangel maybe being the final 'ship... Well, here's what I always say: Spuffy went out with style, with heroism, with selflessness, with passion, with love, with symbolism, and with glory. What else could you possibly want with a 'ship? 🙂 I for one don't believe in "happily ever after", so I think that this ending is the best thing we ever could have gotten.

 

[xaphania]

Even if Buffy somehow thought she wanted to be with Angel, I think it should happen something like in the following fic, by coalitiongirl.

Reaction Formation - PG
Buffy comes to terms with her feelings about Spike, and realizes that things aren't nearly as clear-cut as she's assumed. A tongue-in-cheek parody of Buffy's mental processes.

ETA:

Wishing Oceans agrees: Oh, you should totally send me the link, it sounds good. (sw)

Sorry... it's on the higher end of the ratings.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I don't want Spike and Buffy to end up together or have a happily ever after. 🙂

Like (imo at least) Buffy and Angel (should have) moved past each other, Spike and Buffy live separate lives now, and I feel that putting them back together would be ludicrous.

I love the time that they spent together, and I enjoy their love journey more than any others. That's why I 'ship Spuffy.

Buffy put Spike on his track to being a hero. Well, he's at his best and most heroic with Spider and Illyria at his side.

Spike taught Buffy to love again, and now she can. 🙂 Their lives are no longer with each other. And that's fine.

 

[xaphania]

Spike taught Buffy to love again, and now she can. 🙂 Their lives are no longer with each other. And that's fine.

Not for me. I love the idea of Spike and Buffy being together now and into the future.

I can really see them together - going out slaying at night and then coming home and bickering over whose turn it is to do the dishes.

On the other hand, the idea of Buffy and Angel ever doing anything like that is ludicrous, to me. At this point in her life, Buffy and Angel have grown so far apart they really don't fit together.

Spike fits.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Not for me. I love the idea of Spike and Buffy being together now and into the future.

I can really see them together - going out slaying at night and then coming home and bickering over whose turn it is to do the dishes.

On the other hand, the idea of Buffy and Angel ever doing anything like that is ludicrous, to me. At this point in her life, Buffy and Angel have grown so far apart they really don't fit together.

Spike fits.

I don't think that I'd like them to be together in a cutesy romantic way. I like seeing Spike as tough, and I like seeing Buffy as tough, and I like them to stay that way. 😀 Them being partners in S7 was fine, but them as an actual couple? Nah, I think that it would be too perfect. Part of their appeal to me was that they weren't a real couple, and seeing them as a real couple would just be too romantic for my tastes. So I'm happy with them being apart. 🙂

 

[xaphania]

I don't think that I'd like them to be together in a cutesy romantic way. I like seeing Spike as tough, and I like seeing Buffy as tough, and I like them to stay that way. 😀 Them being partners in S7 was fine, but them as an actual couple? Nah, I think that it would be too perfect. Part of their appeal to me was that they weren't a real couple, and seeing them as a real couple would just be too romantic for my tastes. So I'm happy with them being apart. 🙂

Gosh, I don't think they'd be 'too perfect' at all! If that were the case, it wouldn't be true to their characters. Their relationship has never been perfect and it never will be - and that's part of why I love it.

You can't see them together and still being snarky? Insulting each other (but in a 'we're together and love each other' kind of way?). They can still be tough together. I think especially the post-NFA Spike, now that he's had some time to get used to the soul and become more comfortable with himself, is even more of a great match for Buffy.

(Btw, I don't like/read the comics so anything that's happened in them doesn't exist to me. Lol.)

 

[Kelsey]

Not for me. I love the idea of Spike and Buffy being together now and into the future.

I can really see them together - going out slaying at night and then coming home and bickering over whose turn it is to do the dishes.

On the other hand, the idea of Buffy and Angel ever doing anything like that is ludicrous, to me. At this point in her life, Buffy and Angel have grown so far apart they really don't fit together.

Spike fits.

That's exactly how I see them, too! Angel and Buffy are such an epic couple, and I can never see them settling down into a normal relationship. Whereas Spike and Buffy I could see just as you described: Slaying demons and then coming back to snuggle up and watch The Great Pumpkin on television.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Gosh, I don't think they'd be 'too perfect' at all! If that were the case, it wouldn't be true to their characters. Their relationship has never been perfect and it never will be - and that's part of why I love it.

You can't see them together and still being snarky? Insulting each other (but in a 'we're together and love each other' kind of way?). They can still be tough together. I think especially the post-NFA Spike, now that he's had some time to get used to the soul and become more comfortable with himself, is even more of a great match for Buffy.

(Btw, I don't like/read the comics so anything that's happened in them doesn't exist to me. Lol.)

Honestly? I can't see them as a couple at all. (sw) Like, a fairly normal functional couple. I can see them as a dysfunctional couple and as couples, but actually dating/marriage? Nah. I've read some fanfiction where they're together as an actual couple, and I've never liked it. Really, I prefer the characters on their own. They're heroes, so I'm always going to want them by themselves. (Although I'm totally cool with Spike and Angel going out together and the SG going out together- The flame of friendship burns eternal. 🙂 )

I guess that I'm just not into romance, especially for these two characters, and I can imagine them getting pretty sweet and romantic together if they were together. I'm thinking roses and candlelight. 😉

So, basically, I love their time together, but happily after ever? Nope, not for me. 😀

And, actually, it's pretty interesting Xaphania, this debate we're having. Mostly because everyone's always talking about how the Bangels and Spuffies (and others) watch different shows, but really, we can all see and love Spuffy, but have completely different opinions on it. 😀 Like, I'm not so into the more sweet Spuffy moments like Showtime. I don't hate, but I don't really like it that much either. I'm more into S2 Spuffy, that whole I-Hate-You-B*tch/Sworn enemies/Attraction at first glance thing. Obviously, I love all of Spuffy, but my favorite element was the underlying tension and dislike there, while there was still attraction... That was cool. (sw) The sweet moments in S7 are almost too romantic for me, it's like, where'd the whole love/hate thing go? And it's like, if they were a couple... I dunno, I'm just not so into them being all normal and playful and non half wanting to kill each other. 😀

Or who knows, I've been away from Spuffy for a while, maybe this is me subconsciously just trying to have a different opinion from everybody else. (sw)

That's exactly how I see them, too! Angel and Buffy are such an epic couple, and I can never see them settling down into a normal relationship. Whereas Spike and Buffy I could see just as you described: Slaying demons and then coming back to snuggle up and watch The Great Pumpkin on television.

Well, second thought, I can see them as an actual couple... I just don't like it. (sw) I think that it would feel a lot less crazy passionate and uncontrollable, it would be too old, retired, and "settled down" for me. I like that it was more of a young love where she's not planning on "fat grandchildren". I don't want them with kids, I don't want Spike as human, and I don't want them to settle down together. Just... No. :biggrin3:

 

[xaphania]

I like the domestic!Spuffy. There's lots of great future-fic featuring Spike and Buffy as a couple, it's a guilty-pleasure to read.

I don't think it'd be all roses and candlelight. Except, you know... unless Spike made good on his comment about teaching her how to use candles in foreplay. (sw)

But in all seriousness, I just can't see them falling into a cutesy-cutesy, ultra-fluffy relationship, either. That's just not them... so I guess we're just viewing the potential of their relationship as a proper couple differently.

And, actually, it's pretty interesting Xaphania, this debate we're having. Mostly because everyone's always talking about how the Bangels and Spuffies (and others) watch different shows, but really, we can all see and love Spuffy, but have completely different opinions on it.

Which is a good thing, right? I mean, it'd be pretty boring if we agreed on everything. 😀

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I like the domestic!Spuffy. There's lots of great future-fic featuring Spike and Buffy as a couple, it's a guilty-pleasure to read.

I don't think it'd be all roses and candlelight. Except, you know... unless Spike made good on his comment about teaching her how to use candles in foreplay. (sw)

But in all seriousness, I just can't see them falling into a cutesy-cutesy, ultra-fluffy relationship, either. That's just not them... so I guess we're just viewing the potential of their relationship as a proper couple differently.



Which is a good thing, right? I mean, it'd be pretty boring if we agreed on everything. 😀

Still. 🙂 I think that my real issue is that I don't like the idea of either of them ever really settling down. I'm one of those people who love tons of 'ships featuring the same people (ex: Cangel, Dangel, Spangel, Fuffy, Spuffy, Budelia, etc), and although I enjoy them all, I don't like the idea of any of my characters sticking with one person forever. I like the idea of them constantly moving on, developing, and not really staying in one relationship for more then a little while. I find it appealing, them never really finding that one "lover". Spike and Buffy are great together, I love their dynamic, but I think that I'd just get sick of it if they were actually together together. 😀 Besides, I don't really believe in romantic love, so I like the idea of less romance and more friendship. Guys don't last. Best friends do. 🙂

 

[xaphania]

Still. 🙂 I think that my real issue is that I don't like the idea of either of them ever really settling down. I'm one of those people who love tons of 'ships featuring the same people (ex: Cangel, Dangel, Spangel, Fuffy, Spuffy, Budelia, etc), and although I enjoy them all, I don't like the idea of any of my characters sticking with one person forever. I like the idea of them constantly moving on, developing, and not really staying in one relationship for more then a little while. I find it appealing, them never really finding that one "lover". Spike and Buffy are great together, I love their dynamic, but I think that I'd just get sick of it if they were actually together together. 😀 Besides, I don't really believe in romantic love, so I like the idea of less romance and more friendship. Guys don't last. Best friends do. 🙂

Ah, see, I love the idea of them being together, finding in each other that 'one' person that they should spend the rest of their life with.

I also think that in season seven Spike was close to becoming or actually was Buffy's best friend (she was definitely drifting away from the Scoobies, either way) - so they can be best friends and lovers.

You know, I have absolutely no problem with Spike going off and being with whoever he likes - as long as he comes back to Buffy in the end - but I can't abide Buffy with anyone else. She's Spike's, lol.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Ah, see, I love the idea of them being together, finding in each other that 'one' person that they should spend the rest of their life with.

Then I guess that's something that we're just always going to disagree on. 🙂 Personally, I find it to be too romantic.

I also think that in season seven Spike was close to becoming or actually was Buffy's best friend (she was definitely drifting away from the Scoobies, either way) - so they can be best friends and lovers.

Well, they were definitely best friends in S7. 🙂 But when I say friendship, I mean only friendship. After all, the best lovers are always friends at the very least, it's better for them to be best friends. Why? Because you need more than romance and love to sustain a relationship. Because friends know each other better. Because being friends with someone (should) leads to respecting them and loving their personality more, and being able to spend time with them. If you want to spend your life with someone, then it should be someone that you can stand talking to and living with. 😀

But anyway. My point is that when I say friends, I mean just friends, no romance involved. 🙂 Because a lot of the time, romance and "love" with physical intimacy just doesn't last. But friends know you best, and will always love you no matter what. Friends are the most important thing, and I mean just friendship, none of that silly mixed-signals stuff mixed in. Romance just complicates the equation. 😀 (But now I'm just totally ranting. (sw) )

You know, I have absolutely no problem with Spike going off and being with whoever he likes - as long as he comes back to Buffy in the end - but I can't abide Buffy with anyone else. She's Spike's, lol.

I like to think that Spike has grown past Buffy. 🙂 Like Xander, I feel that Spike coming back to Buffy would be major digression for his character. They had their time, now they should move on. As for Buffy being "Spike's", I don't believe that anybody is "fated" or meant to be with anybody else. You meet somebody, fall in love, something just doesn't work, you split up. Find somebody else, fall in love with them... The process never ends. 🙂 You can always fall in love with somebody else. But, and I know I'm repeating myself here, Buffy settling down or ending up with one other person would just be the worst thing possible for me, especially if that person is male. It would even be digression, imo, for her and Spike to get back together. Although, for some reason, I'm liking the idea of her maybe ending with a girlfriend...?

I dunno, I'll have to elaborate on that "girlfriend" thing later... But, I just think that Buffy should end with her best friends, the ones who've been there from the start. None of their romantic relationships have ever worked out, but they've always stayed friends. 🙂 Their "significant others" have left them, but they always have each other. The fight goes on. There comes a time when you just don't have time for romance, but you always have your friends. You know, remember the whole "we're doomed" romantically thing from the earlier seasons? I like that. 🙂 They're doomed to never get their romantic and soppy happily ever after, but they'll always have each other, the strongest and most powerful love of all.

 

[BuffyHead]

made a buffy/spike video. its in my thread.
Buffy-Boards - View Single Post - ~*BuffyHeads Creations*~

 

[Tranquillity]

Like I said, I don't necessarily want Buffy and Spike to end up together-together but I do want them back in the same sphere, fighting side by side, backing eachother up being best friends and if that leads someplace else, well fine 😉

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I don't have strong feelings about whether they end up together or not. I don't think the idea of being with the same person is necessarily a romantic notion though. The early part of a relationship is the fun part, so I get why someone would prefer a lot of flipping around. You get the fun part over and over. But there's more to life than that. And anyone who's been married awhile knows that it's definitely not about romance, lol.

 

[dan k]

I'd like to see Buffy, Spike and Angel all in the same room in a separate scene. The dynamic between the characters would be interesting and its never happened since Spike got his soul.

In regard to Spuffy i'am sure it could work. Season 7 showed us the great relationship they have.