Spuffy #3 - General Discussion

[StarSlayer]

It's a seasonal celebration of Spuffy - everyone who signs up is assigned a posting day, when you can post anything Spuffy-related that you've created - fic, art, vids, icons etc.

It's fun! I've participated in the last three rounds and there's always loads of fab fic etc. posted so it's great as a reader/viewer as well as a participant.

It sounds like fun!! 😀 Guess I better sign up, but I'll probably just be a reader/viewer this year.

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Moscow Watcher agrees: Hee! Buffy, Faith and Illyria will have a cat fight over Spikey!

Lol, that would be a brutal fight 🙂

 

[xaphania]

It sounds like fun!! 😀 Guess I better sign up, but I'll probably just be a reader/viewer this year.

If you're just going to be a reader, then there's no need to sign up. Just check the community page when the round starts (18th October). 🙂

 

[StarSlayer]

If you're just going to be a reader, then there's no need to sign up. Just check the community page when the round starts (18th October). 🙂

Ok, awesome! Thanks for the tip 🙂 Maybe the next one, I'll be able to contribute something. I'm just learning GIMP right now 🙂

 

[Spikefan31]

Hehe. I really ought to start using my LiveJournal. I mean, I've joined communities and stuff, but I've never actually posted anything on my own journal😛 And then if I do, I have to somehow make it look cool, which involves effort🙁 Anyway, I'm off to make sure I'm following seasonal Spuffy.

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Yep, I'm already watching the community. All is good. 😀

xaphania agrees: What's your LJ name?

emily1307. I already added you as a friend. I think. Can't remember. 🙂

Oh, yep, I did. And you added me back. No point really, though, because I don't post anything. 😛. I'd have no idea what to post about.

 

[xaphania]

emily1307. I already added you as a friend. I think. Can't remember. 🙂

Oh, yep, I did. And you added me back. No point really, though, because I don't post anything. 😛. I'd have no idea what to post about.

Haha, yeah I added you back - didn't know it was you from here, though. If someone adds me I'll generally add back, as long as it looks like we have some interests in common, lol.

I've been rewatching season four and wanted to talk a little about Buffy's attitude towards Spike in this season, post-chip, so after Pangs/Something Blue. She's quite tolerant of him, and though they argue, it always seems to have a teasing edge to it.

No real point to make, just an observation from my rewatch. Thoughts on her attitude this season? Why not just ignore him when it was clear he had no further information on the Initiative?

 

[Tranquillity]

I've been rewatching season four and wanted to talk a little about Buffy's attitude towards Spike in this season, post-chip, so after Pangs/Something Blue. She's quite tolerant of him, and though they argue, it always seems to have a teasing edge to it.

No real point to make, just an observation from my rewatch. Thoughts on her attitude this season? Why not just ignore him when it was clear he had no further information on the Initiative?

It is interesting that you mention this - I've just been visiting another forum where certain people are up in arms because they feel that Buffy's non-slay attitude to Spike 'makes her look ridiculous' because they feel that she should just stake him already because he's a vampire. I don't know...I like to think that Buffy, being the one girl in all the world would be a bit smarter than that, that she would see this particular nuetored vampire as a source of information...

Maybe i will re-watch season four 🙂

 

[xaphania]

It is interesting that you mention this - I've just been visiting another forum where certain people are up in arms because they feel that Buffy's non-slay attitude to Spike 'makes her look ridiculous' because they feel that she should just stake him already because he's a vampire. I don't know...I like to think that Buffy, being the one girl in all the world would be a bit smarter than that, that she would see this particular nuetored vampire as a source of information...

Maybe i will re-watch season four 🙂

Well, I can understand why she might not slay him once she'd got enough information out of him - I think she says in the show, something about not killing a helpless creature?

But after that, there are times when she continues to engage with him, and this behaviour seems very at odds with how she treated him in season two and in HLoD.

Actually, thinking back to S3, her interaction with Spike was pretty tolerant, too. After the initial scene in the kitchen at Revello, she doesn't make much of an effort to act Slayer-ly towards him - she even protects him ("Spike! Get down!").

I'm not saying she had any feelings for him at this point, but it's interesting to look at how she acts around him.

 

[StarSlayer]

Well, I can understand why she might not slay him once she'd got enough information out of him - I think she says in the show, something about not killing a helpless creature?

But after that, there are times when she continues to engage with him, and this behaviour seems very at odds with how she treated him in season two and in HLoD.

Actually, thinking back to S3, her interaction with Spike was pretty tolerant, too. After the initial scene in the kitchen at Revello, she doesn't make much of an effort to act Slayer-ly towards him - she even protects him ("Spike! Get down!").

I'm not saying she had any feelings for him at this point, but it's interesting to look at how she acts around him.

That's how I always saw it. She didn't feel right about killing Spike because he couldn't fight back. And I can't remember what episode in s4, but didn't Buffy say that Spike was good now, even though he still wanted to kill her? I think it was the episode Riley discovered Spike at Giles' house. She definitely acts tolerant of him, even after that.

I think after s2, she slowly began to see him as more than a vampire she needed to kill. I think she still wanted to stake him, but he always seemed to know something or be able to help her in her fight. Like in Lovers' Walk, she couldn't kill him because he knew where Willow and Xander were. I think she also didn't even try and kill Spike after he told her when they were because she seemed affected by what he said about her and Angel.

I don't know...I'm gonna do more thinking on that since it's an interesting observation 🙂

 

[xaphania]

I wonder what would have happened if Spike hadn't plotted with Adam and tried to get them all killed? Because it seems to me that Buffy's attitude towards him changes from 'tolerant of the annoying vampire' in season four to 'must insult annoying vampire' in the beginning of season five, and I can only assume that it was his alliance with Adam that caused the change.

But if he hadn't done that - what would have happened? Reluctant friends sooner than happened in canon?

 

[StarSlayer]

Finally got my copy of Last Gleaming today! Took them long enough, lol!

1. How do you feel about the events of #36?

Okay, so this is the first of the comics I've actually read. I've just been reading summaries and things around the BB about previous issues. So, based on this issue, it still left open a lot of unanswered questions. Some people have mentioned this, but like did Buffy really know Spike was alive beforehand? I'm not 100% satisfied that she knew or didn't know yet. I'm also excited for the return of the Master.

2. Does Spuffy have a future? What sort - friendship or something more?

I will always see a future (more than friendship) for Spuffy, even after this issue. First, Buffy tried to be the one who was going take charge of the situation when Spike arrived. She wanted to get right to business, which is the easy way to cover any feelings she may have for him IMO. But, Spike beat her at her own game. He wasn't the one she should be mad at. She should be mad at herself for what she did, and Buffy begins to realize that. She sulks, and you even see Willow comfort her after Buffy and Spike talk.

So, I'm not buying that they are over and done with just yet. She can say whatever she likes to Angel, which strangely sounded like she was quoting things Spike said to her at times, but I don't think she can escape her feelings for Spike that easily.

3. Speculations and theories for the last four issues of Season 8?

Buffy admits once and for all she loves and wants to be with Spike, and Angel walks away feeling bad about what he did as Twilight. But, Cordy appears and gets Angel back on track yet again. Angel then tries to find a way to bring Cordy back to life. Lol, I can dream 😀

 

[StarSlayer]

So, I've been watching AtS s5 lately and I was wondering how everyone felt about the beginning in "Just Rewards" when they show that flashback to "Chosen." They cut out the parts where Buffy and Spike's hands burst into flame, when Buffy says, "I love you," and Spike's response. Part of me understands why they would cut it in AtS. For timing and not to bring Spuffy as the main focus in AtS. Yet, the other part of me just loves that scene so much that anything cut diminishes its importance and significance. And I feel like most, if not all, of the people who watch Angel also watch Buffy. So, why really change the scene? Just curious what everyone else thinks 🙂

 

[zobothehobo]

So, I've been watching AtS s5 lately and I was wondering how everyone felt about the beginning in "Just Rewards" when they show that flashback to "Chosen." They cut out the parts where Buffy and Spike's hands burst into flame, when Buffy says, "I love you," and Spike's response. Part of me understands why they would cut it in AtS. For timing and not to bring Spuffy as the main focus in AtS. Yet, the other part of me just loves that scene so much that anything cut diminishes its importance and significance. And I feel like most, if not all, of the people who watch Angel also watch Buffy. So, why really change the scene? Just curious what everyone else thinks 🙂

It was probably because Spuffy wasn't relevant... I agree that scene is beautiful and cutting anything out of it diminishes it's importance a tad... but the important part was that Spike saved the world and he died... not that Buffy said she loved him... In other words, the purpose of that flashback was to show Spike being the champion and hero... not Spuffy.

 

[xaphania]

Buffyquestions has a Spuffy related poll and question today.

 

[Tranquillity]

It was probably because Spuffy wasn't relevant... I agree that scene is beautiful and cutting anything out of it diminishes it's importance a tad... but the important part was that Spike saved the world and he died... not that Buffy said she loved him... In other words, the purpose of that flashback was to show Spike being the champion and hero... not Spuffy.

Great answer - I was going to rep you but I apparently just did 🙂

I love season five of Angel - I know this is not a universal opinion... so let's have some discussion prompts about Angel season five ( thanks to StarSlayer for the idea!) 🙂

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the worst and 10 being the best) how do you rate Angel the Series season five?

2. Spike's return - forgetting the demands of television executives and acting contracts etc... - do you think Spike's return from the dead was a good thing or not? why?

3. Spike's characterisation - good, bad or ugly? explain your answer.

4. Spike's non-contacting of Buffy - forgetting the restrictions of tv stories and the unavailabilty of actors etc..., do you buy the fact that Spike didn't contact Buffy at all during this season - why/why not?

5. Favourite episode(s) of Angel season five?

 

[zobothehobo]

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the worst and 10 being the best) how do you rate Angel the Series season five?
Honestly, I loved season 5. Part of that is I love Spike more than words can describe... So I'm not sure if I liked it because this season was good or because Spike's in it. I hate putting numbers on things though... so all you get is I love it and it's my favorite season of Angel (again, probably because Spike's in it).

2. Spike's return - forgetting the demands of television executives and acting contracts etc... - do you think Spike's return from the dead was a good thing or not? why?
Yes. Spike is amazing. Spike's return from the dead made me happier than words can describe because I love him so much. Also, I think Angel having "competition" as champion was really good for him.

3. Spike's characterisation - good, bad or ugly? explain your answer.
We didn't see much of this in season 5 of Angel which kind of really annoys me. I personally don't think we got enough character growth this season to answer this question.

4. Spike's non-contacting of Buffy - forgetting the restrictions of tv stories and the unavailabilty of actors etc..., do you buy the fact that Spike didn't contact Buffy at all during this season - why/why not?
I feel like it would have ruined it if he had contacted Buffy. It really hadn't occurred to me that Sarah may have been busy or whatnot because I saw why he didn't. It's the same reason Angel and Spike never caught up to Buffy in The Girl in Question. It was time to move on... it's sad and heartbreaking... But Buffy was moving on and Spike knew in order for her to have the life she deserved, he needed to let her do that... and move on himself.

5. Favourite episode(s) of Angel season five?
The Girl in Question is my favorite because it's so funny... I like comedy much more than action... along those lines... Smile Time is also among my favorites because it too is funny. And of course, who doesn't love Destiny? GO SPIKE! =]

 

[StarSlayer]

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the worst and 10 being the best) how do you rate Angel the Series season five?

Well, I'm still working my way through the episodes, but I have seen random ones here and there (Destiny, Harm's Way, Damage, You're Welcome, TGIQ, Not Fade Away). So, I won't rate it just yet 🙂

2. Spike's return - forgetting the demands of television executives and acting contracts etc... - do you think Spike's return from the dead was a good thing or not? why?

Definitely a good thing. What's the Buffyverse without Spike? He challenges anyone he's around, whether it's Buffy, Angel, etc. His bluntness is something both the Scoobies and AI may not want to hear, but it always has an effect.

3. Spike's characterisation - good, bad or ugly? explain your answer.

In s5? From what I've seen, I like it. We're seeing a Spike with a soul, fighting the good fight. Granted, he did have a soul in s7 but he was very isolated from the group. It seems like in Angel, they're willing to trust him more easily, especially Fred.

4. Spike's non-contacting of Buffy - forgetting the restrictions of tv stories and the unavailabilty of actors etc..., do you buy the fact that Spike didn't contact Buffy at all during this season - why/why not?

I buy it. Like he said in "Harm's Way," he wanted Buffy to remember him for saving the world, to always remember that image of him. After all the bad he's done to her and others, he doesn't want to ruin that moment. And I don't blame him. He was terrified of feeling close, especially with Buffy, because he's never felt that. But, I really believe he felt she loved him during that scene in "Chosen." After everything in s6 and even seeing her with Angel in s7, she loved him. I think he didn't want to spoil that because what if things went bad again?

5. Favourite episode(s) of Angel season five?

Destiny, You're Welcome (go Cangel), and TGIQ.

 

[Tranquillity]

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the worst and 10 being the best) how do you rate Angel the Series season five?

For me, it is a 10/10 - I love it. it is probably my favourite Buffyverse season (even though I like Buffy better overall). I have watched it closely and written a ridiculous amount of meta on it.

2. Spike's return - forgetting the demands of television executives and acting contracts etc... - do you think Spike's return from the dead was a good thing or not? why?

Oh yeah, good thing for sure. Spike is such a great character that he adds a new dynamic to the story. Plus, he and Angel are great together - DB was a better actor with JM in the story.

3. Spike's characterisation - good, bad or ugly? explain your answer.

Good - I know Spike can be a bit hard to take in season five - he is whiney and juvenile and sometimes his bickering with Angel is beyond petty and this is the reason that a lot of Spike fans don't like season five, Beacuse they see his character regress so dramatically but... I think it works in the context of the story. Spike and Angel have a compedative relationship, Spike is always the lower one in the hierarchy, he is always the superfluous 'second rooster' in the henhouse and so acts accordingly when Angel is around. When Angle is not around? Then we see a different Spike, Buffy-season-seven-Spike. As the season progresses and Angel and Spike work on their relationship we see Spike's attention seeking antics diminish and a more mature Spike on display. I think that Spike and Angel really do love one another, in a brotherly kind of way, and that was certainly shown in season five - that's why I can't quite understand the comics with Angel 'not trusting' Spike - I'm really hopeing it doesn't turn out that Angel and Spike have been working together all along. I really don't want Spike involved in this horrible Twilight plot.

4. Spike's non-contacting of Buffy - forgetting the restrictions of tv stories and the unavailabilty of actors etc..., do you buy the fact that Spike didn't contact Buffy at all during this season - why/why not?

Yep, I buy it - I always have. Coming back from the 'dead' after you've given your life for the greater good is obviously an unsettling experience that prompts a personal crisis - we see Spike go through this, and sure, he doesn't have sex with a wildly inappropriate person as a way of dealing with his depression (😉) but he does spen the latter half of the season trying to 'find' himself and trying to see exactly what he is capable of without Buffy's influence. I think he's entitled to do that - BUT...I do think he should have contacted Buffy once he got himself together. Guess we'll see how this plays out in the comics.

5. Favourite episode(s) of Angel season five?

Destiny is freaking awesome - best Buffyverse fight ever. Damage is probably my favourite episode of Angel overall, I always really like Why we Fight because the underlying message is superb and Not Fade Away completely rocks

 

[xaphania]

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the worst and 10 being the best) how do you rate Angel the Series season five?

8 -it's not my favourite season of Angel (that would be 2) but I do like it a lot. There are only a couple of dud episodes and the rest are excellent.

2. Spike's return - forgetting the demands of television executives and acting contracts etc... - do you think Spike's return from the dead was a good thing or not? why?

Yes. Because Spike alive is better than Spike dead. Plus, as a pretty big fanfic fan, it's nice to have canon confirmation that Spike is alive when the show ended.

3. Spike's characterisation - good, bad or ugly? explain your answer.

There's good and there's bad, in my opinion. But I found his character slightly disappointing after all the development over on BtVS - to me, it seemed he devolved. Perhaps it was being away from Buffy... but I have to say I prefer him when he's near her.

4. Spike's non-contacting of Buffy - forgetting the restrictions of tv stories and the unavailabilty of actors etc..., do you buy the fact that Spike didn't contact Buffy at all during this season - why/why not?

I don't buy it. I don't believe that he wouldn't even attempt to contact her at all. Come on, not even a phone call? An e-mail? It's understandable at first, when he's non-corporeal. But after that, I don't get it. He didn't necessarily have to go see her, but she deserved to know.

5. Favourite episode(s) of Angel season five?

Destiny, Not Fade Away, the Harmony-centric episode.

 

[StarSlayer]

4. Spike's non-contacting of Buffy - forgetting the restrictions of tv stories and the unavailabilty of actors etc..., do you buy the fact that Spike didn't contact Buffy at all during this season - why/why not?

I don't buy it. I don't believe that he wouldn't even attempt to contact her at all. Come on, not even a phone call? An e-mail? It's understandable at first, when he's non-corporeal. But after that, I don't get it. He didn't necessarily have to go see her, but she deserved to know.

I always use to think that too, but when Andrew asks Spike why he hasn't called Buffy, and Spike mocks how that conversation could go, it sort of makes to me. To come back from the dead and call, just to say you're alive and ask how things are going? Kind of awkward. I felt like if Spike ever tried to contact Buffy, it had to be face to face.

 

[xaphania]

I always use to think that too, but when Andrew asks Spike why he hasn't called Buffy, and Spike mocks how that conversation could go, it sort of makes to me. To come back from the dead and call, just to say you're alive and ask how things are going? Kind of awkward. I felt like if Spike ever tried to contact Buffy, it had to be face to face.

I just think that's kind of a lame cop-out. If Buffy meant what she said to him down in the Hellmouth--and I think she definitely did--then I think she'd have wanted to know, awkward phone call or not.