Spuffy #3 - General Discussion

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Spike didn't contact Buffy because it would have been inconvenient to the show and the plot. They couldn't have him go running back to Buffy, which I think he would have done if it were real life, because they needed him on the show. It is just a lame cop-out. Season 7 Spike definitely would have gone to see Buffy, or at least called, especially after she admitted that she loved him. Even just to see if she's okay. Sure, Spike was scared because he'd never been close to someone, but I think he would have wanted to see where a relationship with Buffy could go (okay, so they can never actually work out because he's a vampire, but still!). Not to mention he'd been practically pining over her for 2 or 3 years. That's just my opinion.
 
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dan k
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sisterofmercy
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Spike didn't contact Buffy because it would have been inconvenient to the show and the plot. They couldn't have him go running back to Buffy, which I think he would have done if it were real life, because they needed him on the show. It is just a lame cop-out. Season 7 Spike definitely would have gone to see Buffy, or at least called, especially after she admitted that she loved him. Even just to see if she's okay. Sure, Spike was scared because he'd never been close to someone, but I think he would have wanted to see where a relationship with Buffy could go (okay, so they can never actually work out because he's a vampire, but still!). Not to mention he'd been practically pining over her for 2 or 3 years. That's just my opinion.

I agree. They had to sacrifice part of his character for show reasons. It sucks, but this is why we have fanfic. 😀
 
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Spikefan31
Totally! Thank goodness for fanfiction! :D
I really enjoyed it. Obviously. 😛

It seems like more of an honest friendship, but I'm cool with that. Jumping straight back into romance would be highly unrealistic- And it will be fun to see where the friendship foundation will go from here. 😉

Don't lose hope, spuffies! The future looks bright. 🙂
 
Tome
Tome
Spuffs forever!
S
StarSlayer
The future ALWAYS looks bright :D
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Spikefan31
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Spike didn't contact Buffy because it would have been inconvenient to the show and the plot. They couldn't have him go running back to Buffy, which I think he would have done if it were real life, because they needed him on the show. It is just a lame cop-out. Season 7 Spike definitely would have gone to see Buffy, or at least called, especially after she admitted that she loved him. Even just to see if she's okay. Sure, Spike was scared because he'd never been close to someone, but I think he would have wanted to see where a relationship with Buffy could go (okay, so they can never actually work out because he's a vampire, but still!). Not to mention he'd been practically pining over her for 2 or 3 years. That's just my opinion.

I agree that it's kind of a cop-out, but at the same time, I understand where Spike is coming from, based on his character development.

I also think I read somewhere that Joss wanted Spike to be on AtS for like 8 episodes, but the producers/network wanted Spike to stay the whole season. If that's true, I wonder how things could have been different.

And what do you mean Spuffy can never actually work out because he's a vampire? 😀 It's the Buffyverse. Anything's possible 😉
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Interesting
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Spikefan31
Well, Bangel didn't work out, so I figured neither would Spuffy. This is not including the comics.
And what do you mean Spuffy can never actually work out because he's a vampire? 😀 It's the Buffyverse. Anything's possible 😉

I agree. 😀 Not that I think it'll happen in the so-called canon, but in fanfic I've seen Spike become human, Spike become a 'human vampire', Spike become the male equivalent to the Slayer, Buffy become immortal, Buffy become a vampire and Buffy stop aging once she reaches a certain age.
 
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Spikefan31
I was referring to canon, but, yeah, in the non-canon fanfiction world, I agree that nothing is impossible. :)
With the comic... I have to admit that i'm a little fearful of what Spike knows and what (if anything) he's not telling. After what they've made Angel go through I' a little paranoid when it comes to Spike 🙂 I would be kinda relieved if Spike is just there as "bringer of information to save the day" as Angel was in season seven because more than anything I DON'T want Spike to have been secretly working with Angel and in on the whole Twilight thing the whole time. And I don't want Spike to be the betrayor either.

But I did enjoy the Buffy and Spike interaction in the preview. I like how they seem at ease with one another and that, as per usual, they have plenty to say to one another 🙂
 
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Spikefan31
I agree with everything! :)
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StarSlayer
[No message]
Now How about some questions to get the Spuffy discussion moving. . .

Q1: How similar are Buffy and Spike, personality-wise?

Q2: Is there anything you'd change about the handling of Spike and Buffy's relationship in seasons 5-8?

Q3: In terms of your interest in Spike/Buffy, which was your lowest point in the series? Your highest?

Q4: And lastly, a comic-focused question, When it comes to Spike/Buffy in the final issues of season 8 , what is...

*Your worst nightmare?

*Your greatest fantasy?

*What you think will happen?
 
Q1: How similar are Buffy and Spike, personality-wise?

That's a question that volumes could be written about. From the very first moment that we saw Spike, he was always unique among vampires. More powerful/dangerous. He had killed, single-handedly, not one, but two Slayers, and had no trepidation about making Buffy number three. Where most, if not all, other vampires seemed to fear the Slayers, Spike sought them out, challenged them one on one, and apparently fought quite honorably when he did find them.

Like Spike, Buffy was unique in her loyalty to her friends (as far as we know, she was the only Slayer to actually have friends who fought beside her). Also, she was, or at least was presented as being, a much better and more powerful fighter than her predecessors. Whereas most Potential Slayers are trained from childhood, she was literally handed a stake for the first time when she was Called. With no training at all, she managed to beat, not one, but what was apparently a good sized group of vampires back in LA before moving to Sunnydale. And though cautious about it, Buffy never seemed hesitant to engage in fights where she appeared to be under matched, but she always managed to come out alive.

In the end, Buffy and Spike are both heroes and champions who defied all the odds and refused to fit into the molds that should have defined them, and the major thing that actually made both unique was their ability to love, their loyalty to those who they did love, and their unswerving commitment to what they ultimately considered to be their mission. Both were warriors at the top of their class, but both had a gentler side as well. Both were at the top of the "People Who I Most Definitely Do NOT Want Pi**ed Off At Me," but at the same time they were also at the top of the "People Who I Want On My Side When The S**t Hits The Fan" list. And, ultimately, both unhesitatingly gave their lives to protect the people who they loved.


Q2: Is there anything you'd change about the handling of Spike and Buffy's relationship in seasons 5-8?

I would have had their relationship in Season 6 to have remained as gentle and actually caring as it was toward the end of Season 5 and the beginning of Season 6. The man who swore to defend Dawn "til the end of the world," and who saved his Slayer every night for 47 nights just wasn't the same man who told Buffy that she "came back wrong" or tried ti convince her that she belonged "in the darkness...with me." The girl who was grateful to an erstwhile mortal enemy for suffering torture rather than betray her and her family, who counted unquestioningly on that same former mortal enemy to take care of her sister just wasn't the same one who later saw him as a soulless thing, capable of selling demon eggs to terrorists, but too stupid to keep those eggs from hatching prematurely.

In Season 7, would have had them both get past the bad things of the year before and quit pretending that they both felt a tremendous attraction for the other, an attraction that with just a little encouragement could have grown into a love of truly epic proportions.

In Season 5 of "Angel," I would have had Spike keep his resolve to find Buffy as soon as he was able to do so, and conversely, I would have had Buffy much more determined to seek Spike out once she became aware that he had returned.

By Season 8, I would have had Buffy and Spike as a couple recognized and accepted by everyone in their circle of friends and allies, and if Angel or Giles didn't like it, they could have shoved something large, rough, and very pointy as far up into whichever of their orifices that would be the least comfortable and the most damaging.


Q3: In terms of your interest in Spike/Buffy, which was your lowest point in the series? Your highest?

Certainly the events of "Seeing Red" would rank right down there with the lowest, but, for me, the actual lowest point in the Spuffy relationship was there in the basement in "Wrecked" when Spike said, "I always knew that the only thing better than killing a Slayer would be..." We'll never know for sure, but I've always believed that that simple incomplete sentence set Spuffy back months if not a full year.

The highest would be "Touched," in particular Spike's "You're the one speech".


Q4: And lastly, a comic-focused question, When it comes to Spike/Buffy in the final issues of season 8 , what is...

*Your worst nightmare?

That Spike and Buffy will not be given the time and opportunity to simply sit down together someplace private and finally, honestly, and fully, analyze their feelings for each other and decide whether they will ultimately be friends, lovers, or simply allies when the need arises. We've hemmed and hawed around for way too long, dancing around mixed signals and lost opportunities. It's way past time to resolve this, whatever the ultimate answer winds up being. For what he's suffered, for what he's accomplished, and for the Champion that he has become, Spike deserves more consideration that that.


*Your greatest fantasy?

Buffy, Spike, Faith, and Willow running a Slayer academy somewhere secluded and scenic, where the rest of the world doesn't keep intruding in on their well earned peace and quiet (Don't ask me how Faith and Willow got into the fantasy, the four just seemed to feel right together)


*What you think will happen?

I think that Season 8 will end with Angel and possibly Dawn dying and everyone else left in a sense of shock over how it actually happened, which will lead into season 9. Season 9 will have a very strong sub plot involving the quest to find a way to bring one or both of them back, ultimately resulting in Angel's Shanshu award finally coming about. As for what that will mean for Spike and Buffy, Joss has said repeatedly that Buffy and Angel ultimately belong together, so ultimately that's probably what's going to happen, regardless of what we might believe.
 
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StarSlayer
Great points! I also like the idea of a Slayer Academy!
Q1: How similar are Buffy and Spike, personality-wise?
I think they're both pretty similar personalty-wise. Two birds of a bloody feather 😀 Both can be stubborn, yet incredibly loyal and loving.

Q2: Is there anything you'd change about the handling of Spike and Buffy's relationship in seasons 5-8?
The only main thing I really would change would be the AR scene. I know it leads to Spike getting his soul but I just wish they came up with another way to do it.

Q3: In terms of your interest in Spike/Buffy, which was your lowest point in the series? Your highest?
Oh, man. there's so many high points, lol! I guess it would have to be a toss up between the last scene in "Intervention" and when Spike first sees Buffy back from the dead in "After Life." Those 2 scenes really made me ship Spuffy 100% 😀

The lowest point for me...it would probably have to be the AR scene. I didn't lose my interest in Spuffy though, but I remember thinking how they would be able to come back from that. The fact that they did is one of the reasons why I love them.

Q4: And lastly, a comic-focused question, When it comes to Spike/Buffy in the final issues of season 8 , what is...

*Your worst nightmare?

My worst nightmare would be that Buffy ends up with Angel. I can handle Buffy not being with Spike so long as she doesn't end up with Angel. I would also hate it if Spike was involved with the whole Twilight thing.

*Your greatest fantasy?
My greatest fantasy of course would be for Buffy to end up with Spike and give Angel the boot once and for all. 😀

*What you think will happen?
I think Buffy won't end up with Angel or Spike. Joss will want to keep the debate alive. But, I think Spike will continue to help her though whenever she needs it.
 
Q1: How similar are Buffy and Spike, personality-wise?
I think they're more similar than they realize.

Q2: Is there anything you'd change about the handling of Spike and Buffy's relationship in seasons 5-8?
I haven't read the part of season 8 that addresses Spuffy yet so I don't know... but In 5-7, I'd let Buffy be nicer to him in season 5. Treat him like the good man he is.

Q3: In terms of your interest in Spike/Buffy, which was your lowest point in the series? Your highest?
I never had a low point. Spike is my favorite fictional character of all time. He became that way the first time I saw him in School Hard. Therefore, literally EVERY time he was on screen, I was freaking out-happy. That includes all of the Spuffy stuff. But I guess if I had to pick, it would be... hm... the attempted rape. Although I don't like to think of it as attempted rape. This is going to sound awful... but I'm so much of a Spike fan, I don't feel what happened was that awful... I mean, I know there are a lot of fans who see it as Spike thought it was going to be like all the other times they had sex... but when I watch that scene, I get mad that it wasn't and that Buffy didn't let him.

Oh I almost forgot... highest point... Touched. For sure. That scene chokes me up every time. God... I'm almost crying just thinking about how much I love that scene.

Q4: And lastly, a comic-focused question, When it comes to Spike/Buffy in the final issues of season 8 , what is...
I have only read the first issue of season 8 so I can't answer this question yet. GAH I should get on this!
 
Great answers so far 🙂 Here are mine:

Q1: How similar are Buffy and Spike, personality-wise?

I think they are very similar. Mirrors to one another really - that's why they get on so well together! Throughout season one and the beginning of season two we watch Buffy punning and talking to the vampires she fights. They don't usually talk back. But Spike does. They start talking in school hard and they never stop! I love that about them. As WA pointed out too, they both love deeply, are incredibly loyal and will sacrifice a lot for the people they love. There is also a great article in Watcher Junior which explores the idea of Spike as a shadow-self of Buffy. I think, if i remember correctly, it picks up on similarities in their personalities. Might be time for a re-read. Here is the link: http://www.watcherjunior.tv/01/herman.php

Q2: Is there anything you'd change about the handling of Spike and Buffy's relationship in seasons 5-8?

Well at the moment the one thing I would change would be the reunion. It was such a fizzer! God, I had been thinking about that moment for years and that was what we got?? Talk about a let-down! Hopefully we'll get a pay-off in a different way sometime down the line...

Q3: In terms of your interest in Spike/Buffy, which was your lowest point in the series? Your highest?

Highest interest - I can think of a few peaks, after Out of My Mind interest was very high because we knew what Spike was feeling towards Buffy and I was like "I knew It!" and I just wan'ted to see it develop. Another high point was after the kiss at the end of Once More With Feeling (best television kiss ever!) because it was very exciting to wonder about what was going to come next. I've also had renewed/heightened Spuffy interest with the comic because I have been waiting for Spike to come back since the darn thing was first announced.

Low point of Spuffy interest was only after the AR, mainly because i didn't think they would ever get back from that - and then they gave us season seven 🙂

Q4: And lastly, a comic-focused question, When it comes to Spike/Buffy in the final issues of season 8 , what is...

*Your worst nightmare?

That Spike has been in on the whole Twilight thing the whole time and that he is just as questionable/dumb as Angel. I don't know if I could cope with that. Well, either that or we find out that Spike and Angel have been body swapped and that Angel is Spike and Spike is Angel. . .

*Your greatest fantasy?

In relation to the end of season 8 my greatest fantasy is to see Buffy and Spike sort things out and for it to be canonically confirmed that Spike is very special to Buffy. I don't need to see "I love you" exchanged - I think the distance between them would make such declarations premature -the last thing I want is for Buffy and Spike to be cheesy and gag-inducing like a certain super-powered couple do 😉

*What you think will happen?

I actually don't think that much will happen between Buffy and Spike in these last few issues - I think that Spike and Buffy are being set up for further attention in season nine.
 
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StarSlayer
That would be horrible if there was a body swap.
Q1: How similar are Buffy and Spike, personality-wise?
Interestingly, the similarities of Buffy and Spike's characters were highlighted in the very first episode they are together - School Hard. They both are tricksters, people who defy and suvert the system. They have identical plot arcs in the episode.

Buffy:

-- In the beginning of the episode she pretends to yield to authorities (Principal Snyder)

-- Her badness is called in question (Snyder mentions that she burned her school in LA)

--- she thoroughly plans the Big Event (Parent-Teacher night)

-- Preparations notwithstanding, Big Event ends up in disaster (Snyder meets Joyce; vampires invade the school)

-- she turns the disaster into her triumph (slays the vampires) and gains respect of a member of her family (Joyce)

Spike:

-- In the beginning of the episode he pretends to yield to authorities (The Annointed One)

-- His badness is called in question (he tells about two slayers he killed)

-- he thoroughly plans the Big Event (St. Vigeous night)

-- preparations notwithstanding, Big Event ends up in disaster (vampire attack is deflected and the Annointed One is furious)

-- he turns the disaster into his triumph (slays the Annointed One) and gains respect of a members of his vampire family (Dru and other vampires who live at the factory)
 
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zobothehobo
haha I never thought of it like that. Cool
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Nice! :)
white avenger
white avenger
Great. But you forgot that they're both artificial blonds.
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StarSlayer
This just made my day :D Thanks for posting!
Anyone seen the latest comic (#37)

There is a bit of nice stuff for us in there.

Thoughts? Feelings?

In her mind/fantasy Buffy describes Spike as her "Dark Place" - she seems to look upon this as a good thing (because she fantisises about kissing him in the next panel) but I've seen some Spuffy fans dissatisfies with this endearment and some, umm - shall we say 'non-spuffy fans', literally laughing at the fact that this is the validation that Spuffy gets.

In the comic Buffy has been describing the circumstances that led to the cataclysmic frak with Angel and Spike gets a bit testy and says he is the last person who want to hear all the gory details. Buffy apologises and says "I really shouldn't be telling you that but... but you were the guy I told the thing I wasn't supposed to tell. You're my dark place Spike."

So what do you guys think?
 
Anyone seen the latest comic (#37)

There is a bit of nice stuff for us in there.

Thoughts? Feelings?

In her mind/fantasy Buffy describes Spike as her "Dark Place" - she seems to look upon this as a good thing (because she fantisises about kissing him in the next panel) but I've seen some Spuffy fans dissatisfies with this endearment and some, umm - shall we say 'non-spuffy fans', literally laughing at the fact that this is the validation that Spuffy gets.

In the comic Buffy has been describing the circumstances that led to the cataclysmic frak with Angel and Spike gets a bit testy and says he is the last person who want to hear all the gory details. Buffy apologises and says "I really shouldn't be telling you that but... but you were the guy I told the thing I wasn't supposed to tell. You're my dark place Spike."

So what do you guys think?

I adore Spuffy panels!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Misc/spuffy37.jpg

Looks like Buffy and Spike are more or less in the place where Joss has left them in the end of season 7. Buffy cares about Spike, wants to be with him, but the circumstances work against her. Spike, as usual, thinks that she doesn't care about him. She is embarrassed and can't find words to explain that she cares. So the audience knows that she fantasizes about Spike while the object of her affection is absolutely sure that she only thinks about Angel. To me, this is a clear indication that writers want fans to root for the couple. Lost opportunities are the surest way to make the audience feel for the characters.

It was delightful to discover that Spuffy magic hasn't gone after all these years, after the change of the medum, and, very importantly, the introduction of a new writer. In the past, Scott Allie was very critical of the couple, so it's a nice surprise to see him write Spuffy at its best - snarky, funny, honest, completely trusting each other, comfortable with each other's flaws and inexorably drawn to each other.

Interestingly, Buffy's fantasy about sex with Spike is vaguely reminiscent of the love scene in "Innocence". Spike and Angel have switched their traditional places in Buffy's love life; now Buffy's sex with Angel is destructive and wild, while her daydreams about sex with Spike have sweet and intimate vibe. And Spike still considers Buffy his hero, despite her space-frak with Angel.

That said, I don't expect hearts and puppies for Buffy and Spike. (It's so liberating to have zero expectations. You always win.) I expect a lot of UST, unnuendos, quiproquos and more lost opportunities to keep fans in constant alert mode. But I don't think there will be a real Spuffy romance unless Joss finds a way to make it *very* painful for Buffy. A Twangel-level painful. So far, I see a possibility of Spike/Faith romance to make Buffy jealous in season 9. But, surely, Joss will come up with something more devious to torture us and our girl.
 
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Tranquillity
Tranquillity
pretty :)
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StarSlayer
Good points :)
white avenger
white avenger
I agree completely about the Faith/Spike relationship, as well as the jealousy by Buffy. It plays right in with what the basement scene from "Dirty Girls." COULD have been.
It's so liberating to have zero expectations. You always win

So true. That is the attitude I've taken with the comics and consequently, it has given me a lot of pleasure. I'd even go so far as to call it cake 😉

As for Buffy calling Spike her Dark Place - well I really like the endearment. ‘Dark Place’ is Awesome!! Dark Place is special. Dark Place is the one person in the entire universe who she can tell her deepest, darkest, secret thoughts to without the fear of being judged or rejected or hated. He’s seen the best and worst of her and doesn’t turn away – not even momentarily. Buffy is a girl who lives with secrets and keeps things bottled up so she doesn’t hurt the people around her. She needs a Dark Place; she has things that she can’t tell Xander and Willow or anyone else. She has a need for (and a right to) a relationship that exists completely outside her Scoobies and Spike fulfils that, he always has. The fantasy makes it patently clear that Buffy has missed the Dark Place and she wants it back. And she wants to kiss it too *g*
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
That's how I interpreted it too!
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StarSlayer
You took the words right out of my mouth :)
My copy come a little quicker this time! 😀 But I still hate getting it a couple days later.

In her mind/fantasy Buffy describes Spike as her "Dark Place" - she seems to look upon this as a good thing (because she fantisises about kissing him in the next panel) but I've seen some Spuffy fans dissatisfies with this endearment and some, umm - shall we say 'non-spuffy fans', literally laughing at the fact that this is the validation that Spuffy gets.

In the comic Buffy has been describing the circumstances that led to the cataclysmic frak with Angel and Spike gets a bit testy and says he is the last person who want to hear all the gory details. Buffy apologises and says "I really shouldn't be telling you that but... but you were the guy I told the thing I wasn't supposed to tell. You're my dark place Spike."

So what do you guys think?

Like you said in your other post, I saw Buffy describing Spike as her "dark place" as a good thing. Although it was only a daydream, Buffy is still remembering how comfortable she feels around him, and that she can talk to him about anything, even the things she wasn't really suppose to tell (like her feelings about being a slayer in s7, etc). But, I'm confused. What validation are non-Spuffies referring to? That Buffy did in fact love Spike? Because I think most of us already knew that, lol! 🙂

As for the 2 covers, I can't describe how sad it makes me seeing Buffy and the broken scythe. One of the reasons is because I think of how Spike gave Buffy the strength to keep going (Touched), which led her to find it. "The reason I'm holding it is because of you." I really hope that image doesn't mean anything bad toward Spuffy, or Spike dying again!
 
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